Oh I hadn't thought about the time difference. That is an issue. I suppose you could have started getting up earlier progressively over a few days or a week before the trip and then it'd be ok, but that's a hassle.
It's a little funny/interesting that a lot of us who want to and do retire early are actually very good workers, or at least capable of it.
spoonman's Journal
Re: spoonman's Journal
Indeed, it's ironic that we ERE seekers are excellent workers. I'm not sure why that correlation exists, but maybe the ability to work hard comes with the ability to realize that the 9-5 framework isn't the optimal situation.
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saving-10-years
- Posts: 554
- Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:37 am
- Location: Warwickshire, UK
Re: spoonman's Journal
@Spoonman and @cimorene12 - comparisons with what you are willing to spend your time working to do and what others around you are willing to put their time to seems key here. Its not only about work but also about how those in ERE see the potential in time spent differently and value their own time? I also sense that there is a high proportion of maverick or entrepreneurial types in the ERE community. People who are willing to take a little risk on board (as long as they have researched the odds). For many the well-worn path of employment until (fullest possible) pension is the level of risk that they feel comfortable with. Partly because they are not FI but also because anything else would make them very uneasy. ERE is about being prepared to take responsibility for your own life to a much bigger than normal extent. Its easier (even if it does not make you happy) to leave the decisions to others. Complaining at the same time is a common path, unforunately it does not necessarily lead to change.
@spoonman - I too felt that guilt. Witness handholding on projects still happening 6 weeks after I left the organisation. I've enjoyed working for my employer, its a sector-wide issue as well as the departmental/organisational response that faces them and forces work there down a path that I no longer believe in. That made it easier to decide to leave as I don't think that I have the energy to spare to change things (or much hope of success). In a previous employment (in fact in several instances) I have changed the organisational way of doing things. In one case after I left they relocated the unit (a mistake) and those who worked there told me 'This would never have happened if you had stayed'. Probably true. But this is not a trival amount of extra energy and work - beyond simply working hard to get into changing other people's views. I can do this sort of thing but it is painful and draining. One of my better decisions was recognising that I could not be 'mother' to all my colleagues. (Not suggesting that this is what you are doing but there is some glimpse of parental guilt here?) Its great that the prospect of significant promotion is not enough to keep you at work - this would be enough for most people to stay.
@spoonman - I too felt that guilt. Witness handholding on projects still happening 6 weeks after I left the organisation. I've enjoyed working for my employer, its a sector-wide issue as well as the departmental/organisational response that faces them and forces work there down a path that I no longer believe in. That made it easier to decide to leave as I don't think that I have the energy to spare to change things (or much hope of success). In a previous employment (in fact in several instances) I have changed the organisational way of doing things. In one case after I left they relocated the unit (a mistake) and those who worked there told me 'This would never have happened if you had stayed'. Probably true. But this is not a trival amount of extra energy and work - beyond simply working hard to get into changing other people's views. I can do this sort of thing but it is painful and draining. One of my better decisions was recognising that I could not be 'mother' to all my colleagues. (Not suggesting that this is what you are doing but there is some glimpse of parental guilt here?) Its great that the prospect of significant promotion is not enough to keep you at work - this would be enough for most people to stay.
Last edited by saving-10-years on Sat May 31, 2014 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: spoonman's Journal
These are are excellent points guys, thanks.
Yes, I think you've hit the nail in the head, saving-10-years. I think this community is far less afraid to go away from the beaten path. Most worker bees out there believe that a comfortable retirement should include a vacation home and multiple luxury cars, so any other path that doesn't immediately offer those luxuries is not considered.
As a side note, I suppose if I had cultivated my Stoicism to a good degree I would not be so affected by these last minute obligations.
Yes, I think you've hit the nail in the head, saving-10-years. I think this community is far less afraid to go away from the beaten path. Most worker bees out there believe that a comfortable retirement should include a vacation home and multiple luxury cars, so any other path that doesn't immediately offer those luxuries is not considered.
As a side note, I suppose if I had cultivated my Stoicism to a good degree I would not be so affected by these last minute obligations.
Re: spoonman's Journal
#043 06/06/2014 -- The Cat is Getting Out of the Bag
We’re about 9 weeks from the day we plan to quit our jobs. One thing that I have been struggling with a bit is announcing my departure from the company in a controlled fashion. A few posts ago I said that I wanted to give the company one month notice. Then I said I wanted to give the company two months notice. But this week, I have found myself starting to release the news in a limited fashion. Fate has sort of forced my hand because things are quite in flux at work, and by that I mean that projects are nearing completion and people are already starting to think about other projects I can help them with.
This is all specially true of one particular project, where the project lead assumed I would be in the company for years to come. I decided to inform him of my plans so that my departure wouldn’t screw things up for his project. I was not looking forward to our meeting at all because he has had a long history of people bailing on him, but he took the news much better than I thought he would and was very appreciative of me stepping forward. That came as a huge relief to me.
The previous day I informed one of my closest colleagues at work and he took it quite well too. In fact, they both assumed that I’d already been given an offer by another institution. I told them that I don’t have a formal offer yet, but that I plan to go back to academia with a little sabbatical in between so I can visit family. Of course, that isn’t entirely true, but that’s the story I’ve decided to tell because they wouldn’t comprehend anything else.
Now I just need to inform three additional key players at work and the cat will be fully out of the bag. Of the three remaining, I am not looking forward to informing one of them in particular, who I have worked with closely for the past two years. As you can probably tell, I am very averse to any sort of unpleasantness, I don’t like rocking the boat. In this case, not only will I rock the boat, I will jump out while doing a cannon ball.
I’ve decided to inform the three key people next week, which is one week before the two month mark. Based on the reactions of my other two colleagues, I really don’t know how everyone else will react. I know the one key guy will be surprised, and perhaps visibly hurt, but I really don’t know. Regardless, I anticipate that I will be in for a lot of persuasion. They’ll probably try to promote me on the spot or offer me more money, which I will politely decline. All in all, I guess I can’t complain about the way things have been unfolding, it could have been much worse.
I can’t wait to have this load off my psyche. After that I will be able to start focusing on the path forward instead of the one I’ve already traversed.
We’re about 9 weeks from the day we plan to quit our jobs. One thing that I have been struggling with a bit is announcing my departure from the company in a controlled fashion. A few posts ago I said that I wanted to give the company one month notice. Then I said I wanted to give the company two months notice. But this week, I have found myself starting to release the news in a limited fashion. Fate has sort of forced my hand because things are quite in flux at work, and by that I mean that projects are nearing completion and people are already starting to think about other projects I can help them with.
This is all specially true of one particular project, where the project lead assumed I would be in the company for years to come. I decided to inform him of my plans so that my departure wouldn’t screw things up for his project. I was not looking forward to our meeting at all because he has had a long history of people bailing on him, but he took the news much better than I thought he would and was very appreciative of me stepping forward. That came as a huge relief to me.
The previous day I informed one of my closest colleagues at work and he took it quite well too. In fact, they both assumed that I’d already been given an offer by another institution. I told them that I don’t have a formal offer yet, but that I plan to go back to academia with a little sabbatical in between so I can visit family. Of course, that isn’t entirely true, but that’s the story I’ve decided to tell because they wouldn’t comprehend anything else.
Now I just need to inform three additional key players at work and the cat will be fully out of the bag. Of the three remaining, I am not looking forward to informing one of them in particular, who I have worked with closely for the past two years. As you can probably tell, I am very averse to any sort of unpleasantness, I don’t like rocking the boat. In this case, not only will I rock the boat, I will jump out while doing a cannon ball.
I’ve decided to inform the three key people next week, which is one week before the two month mark. Based on the reactions of my other two colleagues, I really don’t know how everyone else will react. I know the one key guy will be surprised, and perhaps visibly hurt, but I really don’t know. Regardless, I anticipate that I will be in for a lot of persuasion. They’ll probably try to promote me on the spot or offer me more money, which I will politely decline. All in all, I guess I can’t complain about the way things have been unfolding, it could have been much worse.
I can’t wait to have this load off my psyche. After that I will be able to start focusing on the path forward instead of the one I’ve already traversed.
Re: spoonman's Journal
#044 06/09/2014 -- Made Announcement
Today I relieved myself of a great burden by making a broad announcement that I will leave the company in August. The first thing I did was inform one project lead that I’ve been working with closely for two years. I went to his office first thing in the morning and got it over with. It was hard, but in the end he said that he supports whatever I decide to do. Later that morning I sent an email to a bunch of people I work with, including a number of management big wigs. I got lots of nice responses from many people, so it was a relief to see that.
One of the management big wigs said he understands my rationale for wanting to leave the company, but that he would like to chat with me later this week. With the exception of that one big wig, all the other ones have been very quiet, including my immediate supervisor (I’m making our organizational structure sound more complicated than it is. Basically it’s an inverted pyramid with me at the bottom =)). I expect to receive some sort of fat offer and persuasive arguments, but I’m very much planning to stay strong.
As you can imagine, lots of feelings percolated through my being. It was a linear superposition of sadness, happiness, fear, excitement, and other feelings. But by mid morning I was feeling more relief and excitement than anything else. I think that over the next 8 weeks my feelings will undergo lots of turbulence, but I think the overall modulation will be happiness and excitement.
Today I’ve asked myself, what the heck am I doing? Are you sure you want to throw away a career that’s skyrocketing? The answer to all that is yes, because I refuse to work under the current 9-5, you’ll do as we say, agreement. There are many other reasons why I want to quit this industry, details of which I don’t want to go into, but basically I am tired of some of the restrictions that we have to follow. Those restrictions are important, but the way the company and our customers implement them are very stupid and beyond reason.
This is a huge milestone in my journey. My wife will notify her employer just two weeks before she quits (she can do it because that’s just the way it’s done in her industry). Reaching this milestone has been somewhat surreal, but I am very excited for our path forward. There are many worlds to be discovered and adventures to be had!
Today I relieved myself of a great burden by making a broad announcement that I will leave the company in August. The first thing I did was inform one project lead that I’ve been working with closely for two years. I went to his office first thing in the morning and got it over with. It was hard, but in the end he said that he supports whatever I decide to do. Later that morning I sent an email to a bunch of people I work with, including a number of management big wigs. I got lots of nice responses from many people, so it was a relief to see that.
One of the management big wigs said he understands my rationale for wanting to leave the company, but that he would like to chat with me later this week. With the exception of that one big wig, all the other ones have been very quiet, including my immediate supervisor (I’m making our organizational structure sound more complicated than it is. Basically it’s an inverted pyramid with me at the bottom =)). I expect to receive some sort of fat offer and persuasive arguments, but I’m very much planning to stay strong.
As you can imagine, lots of feelings percolated through my being. It was a linear superposition of sadness, happiness, fear, excitement, and other feelings. But by mid morning I was feeling more relief and excitement than anything else. I think that over the next 8 weeks my feelings will undergo lots of turbulence, but I think the overall modulation will be happiness and excitement.
Today I’ve asked myself, what the heck am I doing? Are you sure you want to throw away a career that’s skyrocketing? The answer to all that is yes, because I refuse to work under the current 9-5, you’ll do as we say, agreement. There are many other reasons why I want to quit this industry, details of which I don’t want to go into, but basically I am tired of some of the restrictions that we have to follow. Those restrictions are important, but the way the company and our customers implement them are very stupid and beyond reason.
This is a huge milestone in my journey. My wife will notify her employer just two weeks before she quits (she can do it because that’s just the way it’s done in her industry). Reaching this milestone has been somewhat surreal, but I am very excited for our path forward. There are many worlds to be discovered and adventures to be had!
Re: spoonman's Journal
Congratulations on making your announcement. It's exciting to hear your transition as it's happening. I'm sure they'll try to keep you, but they can't beat a good rationale and the courage to implement it.
Telling everybody at work was something I wasn't very good at myself, and coming up on two years now, since then there have certainly been ups and downs but everything mostly kept feeling righter and righter and fit better and better since that point. I think there's also gotta be some sort of big relief to finally staking claim to a commitment--or really an accomplishment--you've had to keep hidden for so long.
Telling everybody at work was something I wasn't very good at myself, and coming up on two years now, since then there have certainly been ups and downs but everything mostly kept feeling righter and righter and fit better and better since that point. I think there's also gotta be some sort of big relief to finally staking claim to a commitment--or really an accomplishment--you've had to keep hidden for so long.
Re: spoonman's Journal
@ebast: Thanks for stopping by! Yes, it's a huge relief to finally get that out of my chest. I am essentially firing my company. It's all possible because we have FU income that we've been cultivating for years. The company, and anyone else for that matter, has very little power over me.
It's good to hear that things get better as time goes on. I'm already feeling a certain bounce in my steps, a certain zest that wanted to spring to life for a long time.
Most people are taking my announcement quite well. There's still a bunch of managers that are very quiet and haven't replied to my email, but that's expected. I've learned that there's really no best easy way to give them the news, and that's fine.
It's good to hear that things get better as time goes on. I'm already feeling a certain bounce in my steps, a certain zest that wanted to spring to life for a long time.
Most people are taking my announcement quite well. There's still a bunch of managers that are very quiet and haven't replied to my email, but that's expected. I've learned that there's really no best easy way to give them the news, and that's fine.
Re: spoonman's Journal
Congratulations!
They're having small, serious meetings.spoonman wrote: With the exception of that one big wig, all the other ones have been very quiet, including my immediate supervisor
This really cracked me up!spoonman wrote: (I’m making our organizational structure sound more complicated than it is. Basically it’s an inverted pyramid with me at the bottom =)).
Re: spoonman's Journal
@C40: Yeah, there are so many friggin managers it's ridiculus. I'm glad that gave you a good giggle =).
Re: spoonman's Journal
#045 06/13/2014 -- Looking Forward, Not Back
I think that one of the key things one has to do in order to make a good transition between the 9-5 lifestyle to the self-directed lifestyle is to focus on the road ahead. Traditionally, in the years leading up to this moment, it has been very easy for me to jump forward in time and imagine myself enjoying the benefits of the self-directed lifestyle: sleeping the way I want, eating the way I want, exercising the way I want, working (yes, working, but lightly so) the way I want, and just generally enjoying the ability to do the things I want. Having said that, in these final days I find myself looking around and reflecting on the last 8 years that I’ve worked for the company.
The problem with that type of reflection is that it is very easy to go down the wrong psychological path. I’ve come to realize that it is best to start looking ahead at all the awesome adventures awaiting us. I am working to shift my frame of reference from backward looking to forward looking. At the same time, the Buddhist sage within me tells me that I should just focus on the moment, which I would agree with, but I’m not quite at that stage yet. The Stoic sage within me tells me that I should take careful stock of all the negative and positive aspects of what I’ve done in the company and leverage them in the years to come, which I’ve tried to do here and there. (Alright, I am not sure what the Stoic sage would tell me, but you get the idea).
Instead of dwelling on previous times of glory or misery, I am trying to focus on the landscapes that we will explore and the stimulating problems we will solve. I look forward to experiencing things that are difficult to image while ensconced in a cubicle doing someone else’s bidding. Based on the stories I’ve read of people breaking away from the 9-5, they get to experience serendipity in a way that’s almost unimaginable. Like-minded people run into one another, awesome secret places are discovered, and generally there is a feeling of gratitude for the things they experience.
Many people, including myself, often say that they enjoy the camaraderie they experience at work. I believe it’s possible to experience camaraderie in other endeavors that have little or nothing to do with making money. For instance, people in the various gaming scenes have a great time collaborating with one another and pushing the envelope of the games they play. The same can be said of casual team sports, volunteering activities, and other endeavors that like-minded people pursue. I mention camaraderie because it’s a very powerful feeling that I get at work, and sometimes I ask myself “boy, this is really cool. Do I really want to abandon these people?” The answer to that should be yes, because camaraderie can be experienced elsewhere.
I guess the takeaway from this post is that the self-directed lifestyle can meet or exceed the experiences that are part of the traditional 9-5 lifestyle, and it's something important to remember.
I think that one of the key things one has to do in order to make a good transition between the 9-5 lifestyle to the self-directed lifestyle is to focus on the road ahead. Traditionally, in the years leading up to this moment, it has been very easy for me to jump forward in time and imagine myself enjoying the benefits of the self-directed lifestyle: sleeping the way I want, eating the way I want, exercising the way I want, working (yes, working, but lightly so) the way I want, and just generally enjoying the ability to do the things I want. Having said that, in these final days I find myself looking around and reflecting on the last 8 years that I’ve worked for the company.
The problem with that type of reflection is that it is very easy to go down the wrong psychological path. I’ve come to realize that it is best to start looking ahead at all the awesome adventures awaiting us. I am working to shift my frame of reference from backward looking to forward looking. At the same time, the Buddhist sage within me tells me that I should just focus on the moment, which I would agree with, but I’m not quite at that stage yet. The Stoic sage within me tells me that I should take careful stock of all the negative and positive aspects of what I’ve done in the company and leverage them in the years to come, which I’ve tried to do here and there. (Alright, I am not sure what the Stoic sage would tell me, but you get the idea).
Instead of dwelling on previous times of glory or misery, I am trying to focus on the landscapes that we will explore and the stimulating problems we will solve. I look forward to experiencing things that are difficult to image while ensconced in a cubicle doing someone else’s bidding. Based on the stories I’ve read of people breaking away from the 9-5, they get to experience serendipity in a way that’s almost unimaginable. Like-minded people run into one another, awesome secret places are discovered, and generally there is a feeling of gratitude for the things they experience.
Many people, including myself, often say that they enjoy the camaraderie they experience at work. I believe it’s possible to experience camaraderie in other endeavors that have little or nothing to do with making money. For instance, people in the various gaming scenes have a great time collaborating with one another and pushing the envelope of the games they play. The same can be said of casual team sports, volunteering activities, and other endeavors that like-minded people pursue. I mention camaraderie because it’s a very powerful feeling that I get at work, and sometimes I ask myself “boy, this is really cool. Do I really want to abandon these people?” The answer to that should be yes, because camaraderie can be experienced elsewhere.
I guess the takeaway from this post is that the self-directed lifestyle can meet or exceed the experiences that are part of the traditional 9-5 lifestyle, and it's something important to remember.
Re: spoonman's Journal
The Stoic sage might say: "ok, you've earned some more freedom to better fulfill your true purpose as a human, so now it is time to do so."
Re: spoonman's Journal
I sure hope so. Part of my true purpose is to experience a greater breadth of experiences than there are available in the cubicle.C40 wrote:The Stoic sage might say: "ok, you've earned some more freedom to better fulfill your true purpose as a human, so now it is time to do so."
Re: spoonman's Journal
#046 06/23/2014 -- ERE Senioritis is Here
You may all recall that a while back I predicted a phenomenon I fondly called ERE Senioritis, which is very much like its high school cousin: in the final months of your senior year in high school you are very much ready to move on to the next stage of life. You are also prone to taking things slow and not getting bothered by the everyday grind. After notifying all of the interested parties at work that I plan to leave the company in August, I feel a lot better and catch myself taking the time smell the roses. The effect is compounded by the fact that I finally got over a bad cold that I contracted while on business travel. The cold was like a crescendo to a 4 year grind to escape the 9-5.
The acute senioritis stands in great contrast to another phenomenon I thought would occur by now: a feeling or notion that we wouldn’t mind working an extra few months for more cash. That has not been the case at all. In fact, we even pondered quitting a few weeks earlier but decided against it.
Giving two months notice will certainly help my colleagues make staffing adjustments. However, I’ve set myself up in a purgatory of sorts. Now that I’ve given my (unofficial) notice, I no longer care one bit about what goes on at work. Right now I’m just going through the motions while my mind is elsewhere. The closer the day of reckoning gets, the stronger the symptoms of senioritis become.
You may all recall that a while back I predicted a phenomenon I fondly called ERE Senioritis, which is very much like its high school cousin: in the final months of your senior year in high school you are very much ready to move on to the next stage of life. You are also prone to taking things slow and not getting bothered by the everyday grind. After notifying all of the interested parties at work that I plan to leave the company in August, I feel a lot better and catch myself taking the time smell the roses. The effect is compounded by the fact that I finally got over a bad cold that I contracted while on business travel. The cold was like a crescendo to a 4 year grind to escape the 9-5.
The acute senioritis stands in great contrast to another phenomenon I thought would occur by now: a feeling or notion that we wouldn’t mind working an extra few months for more cash. That has not been the case at all. In fact, we even pondered quitting a few weeks earlier but decided against it.
Giving two months notice will certainly help my colleagues make staffing adjustments. However, I’ve set myself up in a purgatory of sorts. Now that I’ve given my (unofficial) notice, I no longer care one bit about what goes on at work. Right now I’m just going through the motions while my mind is elsewhere. The closer the day of reckoning gets, the stronger the symptoms of senioritis become.
Re: spoonman's Journal
#048 07/09/2014 -- Fictional Role Models
There is no shortage of inspirational people in our community. There are quite a few role models in our community, people that help inspire directly with their tales of frugal badassity. But these days I keep finding myself thinking about the badassity of fictional characters, namely those in Haruki Murakami’s novels. I highly recommend Norwegian Wood and The Wind-up Bird Chronicle.
As is characteristic of most of his novels, the characters are often underemployed but have a greater sense of what’s important in life. They don’t have an obsession with careerism and the trappings of consumerist culture. The characters often have a penchant for keeping things simple. Some of the novels take place back in the 70’s when there was no internet or smart phones, so it was easier to keep things simple. One of the things I got a real kick out of in those two novels was that due to the lack of communications technology the characters sometimes had to spend a whole Sunday sitting by a phone waiting for a phone call (they would often read while waiting for a phone call, but still). I also love the characters in Steinbeck’s Cannery Row and Kerouac’s On the Road. To them, money is just a tool to enable them to have a pleasant afternoon or get them from point A to point B, but nothing more.
The thing about modern life is that it’s so difficult to sit down and have a pleasant afternoon when you are on the clock. One of the things I hope to do in FI is sit around a whole afternoon chatting with people and hanging out without the nagging feeling that Monday is right around the corner. I can’t remember the last time I was able to just hang out and not give tomorrow a single thought. I think it must have been ages ago, in my college days, when I was able to take weeks off and go on road trips.
There is no shortage of inspirational people in our community. There are quite a few role models in our community, people that help inspire directly with their tales of frugal badassity. But these days I keep finding myself thinking about the badassity of fictional characters, namely those in Haruki Murakami’s novels. I highly recommend Norwegian Wood and The Wind-up Bird Chronicle.
As is characteristic of most of his novels, the characters are often underemployed but have a greater sense of what’s important in life. They don’t have an obsession with careerism and the trappings of consumerist culture. The characters often have a penchant for keeping things simple. Some of the novels take place back in the 70’s when there was no internet or smart phones, so it was easier to keep things simple. One of the things I got a real kick out of in those two novels was that due to the lack of communications technology the characters sometimes had to spend a whole Sunday sitting by a phone waiting for a phone call (they would often read while waiting for a phone call, but still). I also love the characters in Steinbeck’s Cannery Row and Kerouac’s On the Road. To them, money is just a tool to enable them to have a pleasant afternoon or get them from point A to point B, but nothing more.
The thing about modern life is that it’s so difficult to sit down and have a pleasant afternoon when you are on the clock. One of the things I hope to do in FI is sit around a whole afternoon chatting with people and hanging out without the nagging feeling that Monday is right around the corner. I can’t remember the last time I was able to just hang out and not give tomorrow a single thought. I think it must have been ages ago, in my college days, when I was able to take weeks off and go on road trips.
Re: spoonman's Journal
Murakami is one of my favorite authors. I really like Hard Boiled Wonderland and Wild Sheep Chase.
It's amazing how he makes doing chores and having a routine feel satisfying and enjoyable.
It's amazing how he makes doing chores and having a routine feel satisfying and enjoyable.
Re: spoonman's Journal
Thanks for stopping my, m741. I was thinking of starting with his first few novels, which are hard to get because they've been out of print for a while, but I think I will prioritize the ones you mentioned.
Indeed, chores like spending time cooking a meal are thoroughly enjoyed by the characters. That's definitely the case in the opening scene of The Wind-up Bird Chronicle.
Indeed, chores like spending time cooking a meal are thoroughly enjoyed by the characters. That's definitely the case in the opening scene of The Wind-up Bird Chronicle.
Re: spoonman's Journal
Murakami is definitely also one of my favorite authors.
If you, as I think, enjoy Wild Sheep Chase, I would recommed the sequel Dance, Dance, Dance.
I had read a few of Steinbecks novels, and think I will go for Cannery Row next time.
If you, as I think, enjoy Wild Sheep Chase, I would recommed the sequel Dance, Dance, Dance.
I had read a few of Steinbecks novels, and think I will go for Cannery Row next time.
Re: spoonman's Journal
Thanks for the suggestion, wizards. I need to catch up on his other novels. I keep wanting to start from the very first novel, Hear the Wind Sing, but that one has been out of print and costs something like $40 on amazon. I think I'll just start from A Wild Sheep Chase.
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UrbanHermit
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Re: spoonman's Journal
Only the translation is out of print, you can still have it for $4 + shippingspoonman wrote:I keep wanting to start from the very first novel, Hear the Wind Sing, but that one has been out of print and costs something like $40 on amazon.
http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E9%A2%A8%E3%81 ... 4062748703