Loutfard's journal

[loutfard]

Found an interesting super cheap small old farm. 45m² plus attic and an 18m² outbuilding. Easy location to get everywhere without a car. Walking distance to three(!) railway stations, on two different lines! Not very popular area due to not being super car accessible, which is a plus in my book. Forced sale by auction, so a chance to get a very good price too. Even with renovation, this would cut our housing spending to below Jacob's levels.

There's a catch though. It's in a decrepit state, and it can only be renovated. Tearing down and rebuilding is not allowed. "That would not fit in the local landscape. We've sent the police to stop someone who tried to tear down a wall and rebuild it on a similar property just recently!" was what I heard from the village urban planning department. Also: "Don't think of even applying for a dormer window in the attic. It will be refused. This is a plot of building land, but it's only 150 m², so it's too small. If you tear it down, we don't want you to rebuild." Bloody regulitis. How I would love to live in a lawless country like Jean's Switzerland, where rules often have to withstand the test of making sense.

So I'm not sure if we'd want to bid in the auction. I'd have to cross two hurdles for that. The first one is easy: to quickly get trustworthy technical advice on renovating this place. The second one would be getting my wife on board in time. She's shown a lot of flexibility recently. I don't want to spoil that. That could only work against me/us in the future.

[ertyu]

I'd bid low enough that, if you get it, youd be fine with it regardless of the renovation expenses. If your default is "no," you lose nothing by placing a bid that's too low. And you might just get your bid.

[loutfard]

I'd bid low enough that, if you get it, youd be fine with it regardless of the renovation expenses. If your default is "no," you lose nothing by placing a bid that's too low. And you might just get your bid.

The main problems are:

- Is it technically possible to renovate this place to a decent standard? Stability and humidity issues come to mind.
- Can this be done economically, probably meaning myself or with less specialised contractors?
- Would my wife be willing to join me taking that kind of risk?

[Jean]

Is there any merule?
What do you call decrepit?
Are you allowed to tear down the inside?
I think limiting factor is your motivation
Renovating is very diferent from building anew. Do you want to take on such an endeavor now?

[loutfard]

Thank you for your reaction Jean. The elephant in the room is my wife's consensus to explore this further. I think that's where it stops. She's come quite a long way recently on living in a more ERE-compatible way, but I'd be pushing things too far trying to hammer this through. She doesn't have the mental capacity to spare.

If still interested in the technical details:
- single floor late 19th century brickwork farmhouse, 45 m²
- no wood rot or fungus in the roof
- no wood in the walls
- relatively dry asbestos cement roof
- wicking humidity in the brickwork. To be expected from a late 19th century building. Worsened by idiots thinking it was a good idea to put up a terrace higher than the original exterior ground level. I know how to handle that in simple, ecological ways.
- brickwork stability unknown. No significant discernable instability, but I'd need expert advice to confirm that.
- tearing down the inside allowed, required even, except for the load bearing dividing walls.
I wanted to call a building expert, but I need my wife's consensus to do that.
- insulating 26cm from the outside on all sides allowed without a permit

The place has a lot going for it from an ERE point of view:
- small
- rural quiet
- super low purchase price (expert opinion required for renovation)
- super low ongoing taxes
- permitted for living
- frequent direct train link direct to her job, largest cities, national airport
- cycling distance to my jobs, my parents
- super low taxes

This kind of property rarely if ever turns up around here, but I think I'll have to let this go...

[chenda]

I don't think Switzerland is lawless but it sounds like the-house-or-your-wife situation.

Also consider future mortgageability / saleability especially given the lack of car accessibility.

[zbigi]

Quiet, car unfriendly (meaning little traffic near house and on walking trails), close to trains, close to jobs, close to parents, close to largest cities seems like a once in a decade opportunity.

[Ego]

Sounds like someone in the planning department will be bidding

[loutfard]

Sounds like someone in the planning department will be bidding

I'm quite sure that is not the case. It _is_ an ugly duck property to many, just not to me:
- very small
- significant renovation risk, with unknowns in terms of stability
- quick teardown and rebuild in the same place impossible without complaint to higher levels of government (and even then...)
- vacancy tax and neglected property tax issue to be resolved

[loutfard]

So it seems patience has been costly, but fruitful. Living arrangement changes were long vetoed by my wife, but she has become much more open to discussing these. The boring FI process might very well look like this:
- I sell our current home and invest the proceeds.
- We buy a home together that's cheap, safe, quiet and well-connected by train.
- I jump through very complicated hoops of optimising the transaction. In our case, this saves ~20k€ one-off and ~4.2k€/year recurring.
- Depending on the markets, we can retire from our current jobs in summer '32 or earlier.

I'm also mildly optimistic my partner is also starting to see ERE ways of finding meaning in life.

[J_]

Ahh looks good Loutfard! The road to fi via real estate can be a good one! Wish you lots of creativity to realise your ideas!

[guitarplayer]

Found an interesting super cheap small old farm. 45m² plus attic and an 18m² outbuilding. Easy location to get everywhere without a car. Walking distance to three(!) railway stations, on two different lines!

You might not want to share but if you don’t mind, how cheap are such places round about where you are? Make it a puzzle if you don’t want to be too obvious

Otherwise, nice one on being able to project calling it quits. I think in general you have life sorted all right already, but appreciate you’re basically acting on the foresight of ‘how I’m gonna feel about it all in x years aka people change’.

[loutfard]

You might not want to share but if you don’t mind, how cheap are such places round about where you are? Make it a puzzle if you don’t want to be too obvious

The place I mentioned was very atypical. We weren't ready, so we didn't bid. It went for 66k€ before transaction fees or ~79k€ after. Add a year of creative diy renovation work and you end up around 120-130k€.

My current home in a luxury university city is in the 500k€ ballpark.

I've identified two interesting alternative areas:
- The neighbouring small city is safe, quiet, 15' by train 4x/hour, distinctly less posh. 30-40% the price. 150-170k€ excluding fees for a 100m² somewhat renovated 1930's townhouse with a little garden in a quiet street near the train station. Less desirable spots go for less. Simple building plots within 2km from the station ~75-110k€ excluding fees.
- A more rural area, much closer to my aging parents and my jobs, very well-served by train, similar prices.

I plan to explore a few ideas on how to identify interesting ugly ducks in these areas.

Otherwise, nice one on being able to project calling it quits. I think in general you have life sorted all right already, but appreciate you’re basically acting on the foresight of ‘how I’m gonna feel about it all in x years aka people change’.

This indeed. I have more than enough ideas and things to explore to keep me very busy for the rest of my life. No boss needed for that. I can feel my wife discovering the same thing. Exciting!

[Violets]

Hiya. Stopped by your journal after you commented on mine and enjoyed reading your analysis of properties. I love that your wife is starting to come around to Ere-ie ways, that is so awesome.

[loutfard]

My wife surprised me again today. On our evening walk, we passed some stuff out on the sidewalk with a "free" sign. We took a hammock with a small tear. "I'll ask your mother for materials to patch it up. Nice small winter evening project. Our friend can take it to the summer house. We'll enjoy it in the garden!"

[loutfard]

I've worn the same pair of shoes all the time for two years now. The hole in the sole has been growing since a month and a half. Not the kind of thing that gets repaired.

First thought? Buy new ones. Nah. Second thought? Buy used. Nah. Third thought? Check alternatives, starting with whatever I have already. So...

I made a (re)discovery! I had a pair of long-forgotten hand-me-down leather shoes sitting in a cupboard since ten years. Heavy, but very comfortable. They turn out to be Paraboot Griffs (successor): hand made, Norwegian welt, high quality made in France shoes. 475€ new.

With good care I should be good for years to come. I'll start with new shoelaces, regular wax treatment, resoling when necessary, and neoprene overshoes when cycling in the rain.

/me is happy.

[loutfard]

Food.

- The Greger book and the enthousiasm of J_, guitarplayer and his dear wife really brought me closer to a whole foods, plants-based diet.
- Oats with fruits, seeds and nuts have become my breakfast staple. I eat a lot more vegetables and fruits. My wife makes a large batch of a very tasty green smoothie once or twice a week.
- I started cooking a large bowl of beans/rice/vegetables/spices/seeds/nuts in our slow cooker once or twice a week. Easy to take to work in a hand-me-down Ikea EFTERFRÅGAD vessel.
- I haven't eaten any cheese at home since late August. Except for bits in the free vegetarian leftovers from the local school, that is. Big change for me. I was known to sometimes eat half a kilo of cheese as a snack.
- No breakfast omelets for me anymore either. We still use eggs in pancakes.
- Alcohol. My very very low alcohol consumption has gone to mostly zero. At a recent concert with a drink included in the ticket price, I noticed myself asking for a glass of juice instead of a nice red wine.

Foraging.

- At the end of August, we picked lots of apples and pears in the public park in front of our place. These trees are literally 50m from our place with fruit ripe for picking. Great feeling. We also dried some of them.
- Yesterday, I collected a large bowl of walnuts from the same little park. There's another little park a bit outside of the city with six or seven very large walnut trees. I need to go check if there are any nuts left over there too...
- Mushroom foraging is illegal here, but I brushed that aside to go scout. Apart from lots of poisonous Scleroderma citrinum, I only found one tasty bolete that worms had feasted on already. There should be many porcini, and chicken of the woods too, but I haven't been able to spot them yet. Maybe later today.

Music.

My wife and I are both talented musicians. We finally started playing music together again after a _very_ long hiatus. The goal is to set up a small concert programme by next spring and let serendipity do its work. A concert holiday had been a fading dream of mine until my wife came up with the exact same idea. Street music, a more formal concert here and there and see where we get.

The house.

- We have a heavily subsidised cleaner clean our house every other week. An upcoming 39% price hike is extra motivation to drop that. My wife is not at all enthousiastic. She's worried the place will look a mess without, so I'm trying to make sure that is not the case by actively cleaning while our regular cleaner is not available.
- Lots of small things around the home and garden. Nothing urgent or expensive. Just small fixes and improvements after ten years living here. Fixing those now should make it even easier to sell when the time is ripe. Finally making the garden less of a totally unkempt mini wilderness certainly is one of them.

[philipreal]

What instrument(s) and what sort of music do you and your wife play? I enjoyed reading your journal and will likely make some lentil burgers soon.

[ertyu]

known to sometimes eat half a kilo of cheese as a snack.

I felt this haha. Especially after I found some resellers of expired cheese from the bougie grocery stores. Apparently selling it is legal as long as you clearly label it not for human consumption. Well, this human has been happily eating it 90% off for a while now, and when it is so cheap + there's nothing wrong with it, moderation's hard. Congrats on the positive changes you've made.

A concert holiday had been a fading dream of mine until my wife came up with the exact same idea. Street music, a more formal concert here and there and see where we get.

How cool is that! I hope you pull it off. This would be satisfying even if it's just busking, plus it will be a great relationship builder. Multiple positive effects.

heavily subsidised cleaner clean our house every other week. An upcoming 39% price hike is extra motivation to drop that.

My intuition says you shouldn't drop this. No idea why. While I don't expect anyone on this forum to follow a sternum-and-upper-chest feeling (rather than gut feeling) from an internet rando, I figured I'd put this down fwiw.

[loutfard]

What instrument(s) and what sort of music do you and your wife play?

I prefer not to answer that at this time, but I might in the future.

I enjoyed reading your journal and will likely make some lentil burgers soon.

I hope you'll enjoy it.