On deleting journals, posts, and accounts

[Viktor K]

I’d like to post just in case anyone else is thinking this... I literally don’t care who deletes what post when. I also don’t care if deleting your posts becomes a non option. Just admin decision.

I do think fear that someone’s gonna come find your posts and use it against you is far-fetched. Maybe if you commit some crime, or try to get some sort of public office/gain fame/notoriety, ya it can and may be used against you. But it should, because if you’re doing/saying enough sh*tty and/or contradictory things online, then the world will know. Like when they mention FB posts of some of the idiots storming the US capitol.

But you’re probably paranoid. Like ffj or whoever it was posting about fire trucks. Maybe he was a Capitol Hill rioter, but literally nobody is gonna care about their posts. Just like nobody cares about my trump-crazy uncle.

Talking about censorship and cancel culture in the US.... *laughs in Chinese*

If you’re worried, don’t post it. Not that hard. If you’re paranoid, delete your posts. If you find a thread that doesn’t have any consistency because of deleted posts from 2 years ago, start another thread. If admin doesn’t like that new cultural paranoia, remove ability to delete posts.

Is my self-centered and pragmatic approach coming out? But still, hopefully there are other lurkers that literally don’t care either way. And I thought that’d be a good opinion to add, just so everything is represented equally.

And if I’m the only one that feels this way, nothing new there, that’s often how I find my opinion received irl

[daylen]

And if I’m the only one that feels this way

Definitely not with respect to apathy towards forum policy on this issue. Though, I would add that each member's opinion on this matter likely depends significantly upon the degree to which they value certain institutional ties which have or may have reason in the future to disincentive employee affiliation with particular ideologies. The ability for an institution to scout out such affiliation for a particular member on the ERE forums without prior direction from the employee is hard but feasible given current search tech.

[McTrex]

I get you're being uncomfortable showing the exterior of your house, although I'd love to see the end result. I have been on this forum since the very start and have thought about starting a journal several times, but held back because there are some characteristics of my family situation that are relevant to my ERE journey, but would make me easily identifiable, which I'm not comfortable with because I'm still working. So I mostly lurk and suck in the vast amount of knowledge, thought processes and views. As so many others, I have learned an incredible amount because of this forum.

The thing I hate most is people just disappearing without an explanation, whether it is because they feel uncomfortable with what they posted or whether they sailed off into the sunset and shifting their focus once they've reached their goal. I understand that when you've ERE-d, you feel you're done with the journey, but please just post once a year or so to let us cave-dwellers get a sense of how it is out there.

I do hope that you will continue posting non-identifying projects if you're up to it, because I love following your progress and I learn a lot from your technical skills.

[Sclass]

Oh wow. I was wondering what all the fuss was about. Once I looked back using the search tool I almost flipped over backwards. The forum looks like Swiss cheese!

I get it. We talk about some touchy stuff here. People are scared AI or Real Intelligence will connect the dots.

Reflecting I will say thank you to the people who shared material worth deleting. It was some of the most interesting stuff.

If you over filter you start sounding like Warren Buffet with his front page of the NYT test. Boring. Useless and artificially irrelevant. Mostly because he has this branding of “uncompromising integrity.”

I’d be embarrassed if the people in the many stories I’ve told here read them. So why the heck did I post them? I think they tell a lot about the subjects discussed rather than discussing topics in abstract ways. This also reminds me of the people who PM’d and asked for meetups - sorry what happens online should stay online. I guess we have to do what works for us.

Interesting. Self Filter? Gush and delete? Share fearlessly? Allow members to ghost their history with a button press? Where is that button anyway?

I guess there’s balance. I’m never running for public office.

I like to think old posts are just forgotten and ignored then @Stahlmann comes along asking about something posted seven years ago.

I’m not going to tell anyone what to do. I’ll just say thanks to those who posted up some really interesting stuff (we all know and enjoyed the posts) and then erased them.

[CS]

Yes, it is sad about all the content that is gone.

I think the more it was talked about, the more the deleting happened. The last bit did seem like that panicked end of a bull market.

[7Wannabe5]

The funny thing is that some of the deleted conversations with me could easily be assumed to be racier than they really were.

[BookLoverL]

I don't mind that much if other people delete things or not, but I have reread old threads to try to gain new wisdom from them multiple times.

I think if I got to the point where I thought I was notorious enough to need internet privacy, all I'd probably do would be edit posts to remove the most personalised parts of any information I shared. And possibly change my username, since right now it's the same as my username on some other sites.

Honestly, though, if anyone cancelled me based on posts on here? Well, it's not like it's very hard to get me to talk about ERE in real life if someone actually seems curious about it... and I can't be going around not being myself because of fear of future tyranny.

If I avoid talking about the topics that interest me most online or in real life, such as finance, theology, philosophy, politics, then the censorial forces in society will have already won.

[Seppia]

I’ve already said what my position on this topic is, but I’d just like to add that nuking ALL your posts is incredibly egoistic.
I remain amazed at how within a group of people who should value fairness, hard work and paying it forward, so many act as free riders, taking the good then leaving by burning everything and salting the land

Jacob, MMM and this community literally transformed my life and made me a freer person, with better control of my present and my future.
In exchange of all of this, I provided some stupid comments and a few lousy recipes on this forum.
So overall I took much more than I have given, and I have been a net recipient of TONS of amazing life advice (worth real money) for free.
Now I would understand editing some post where I inadvertently posted too much info, some pictures of myself etc, but taking everything down including stuff as harmless as the recipes would be selfish, not add anything to “protect me” and pointlessly destructive for the community.

[Alphaville]

and a few lousy recipes on this forum.

hey hey now! no insulting the food...

i just wanted to say im forever grateful for those recipes, particularly the recent one for japancakes (my portmanteau for the oki- i can't remember the name). just like i destroyed the name i destroyed also the original recipe, but the original was a massive inspiration for endless play, and i've had its descendants on heavy rotation since inception (e.g. i've got a batch with chard and sweet onion planned for today's lunch).

so... yeah. your contribution is greatly appreciated.

[ffj]

@Seppia

"I’ve already said what my position on this topic is, but I’d just like to add that nuking ALL your posts is incredibly egoistic.
I remain amazed at how within a group of people who should value fairness, hard work and paying it forward, so many act as free riders, taking the good then leaving by burning everything and salting the land"

A bit dramatic, don't you think? Salting the land? Burning everything? What are your thoughts of the multitude of people that visit this site and never contribute the first word? How far do you want to take this reasoning because this game can go to infinity.

Also, it's a bit arrogant to assume that I have just taken without contributing. Or the others that have chosen to delete their content. I distinctly remember Bigato helping revamp the entire site and I think he was a mod also? How does that compare to your recipes? Even if I am incorrect about him, it still wouldn't matter to me that he decided to leave on his terms. Nobody is under contract here and we voluntarily share our lives and thoughts.

Keep that in mind, it is a voluntary exchange. An exchange that is a delicate balancing act with multiple players. I would be careful of disrupting this balance to the point of shying away future contributors. And yes, I am fully aware that argument can be turned around and used against my conduct, but agency of the voluntary contributor I believe is more impactful, and will attract much more talent than recriminations and rules.

Anyway, I have no right to tell you how to feel, and if you are mad at me or anybody else than go ahead and be angry. It wouldn't be the first time I've pissed somebody off in these forums. At some point I would like to get past this issue and start anew but if anybody needs to vent then fire away.

[Scott 2]

Meanwhile, I'm over here hoping Bigato and Classical Liberal decide to come back and give their real time input on my problems. Yeah it'd be better if the content stuck around, but I remain grateful for the advice that was offered.

Heck, even Jason - his shit posting would make me a little crazy, but every once in awhile, gold.

[Lemur]

Jason was too funny.

[Laura Ingalls]

Jason was too funny.

I know.

[Seppia]

@zero

before I get into the point by point, I still would like to know what the reason is for nuking ALL posts.
I haven't heard a valid argument.
You want to eliminate the picture of your house, or that reference to where you live, your employer etc? Cool I understand that.
But why delete the reply to the "what index fund you suggest I use?" or "how do i tie a XYZ knot?", "anybody know how to build a table from scratch?" threads?

Again, it is a behaviour that creates a big disruption for the present and future of the community for no tangible personal gain that I can think of.

It is rude, egoistical, childish and obverall feels very wrong to me, especially because you're doing this to a group of people who have given you a lot of value.

Note: the "you" in the above sentences is to be intended as a generic "you, person who is nuking all your posts"

A bit dramatic, don't you think? Salting the land? Burning everything? What are your thoughts of the multitude of people that visit this site and never contribute the first word? How far do you want to take this reasoning because this game can go to infinity.

Of course it's hyperbole, but it is a destructive attitude. Those who just lurk create no damages to the community when they stop lurking.
Deleting all posts creates real issues to the very people you've taken from.

Also, it's a bit arrogant to assume that I have just taken without contributing. Or the others that have chosen to delete their content. I distinctly remember Bigato helping revamp the entire site and I think he was a mod also? How does that compare to your recipes? Even if I am incorrect about him, it still wouldn't matter to me that he decided to leave on his terms. Nobody is under contract here and we voluntarily share our lives and thoughts.

I explicitly mentioned that my contributions are insignificant VS the amount I have gotten. I am also sure that Bigato made a great contribution by revamping the site. That is not the norm though. Usually, the contributions of users are limited to their posts. If you delete them ALL, you've cancelled all your contributions, plus you’re screwing things up for the future readers.
You’re effectively creating negative value.

[Mister Imperceptible]

In his defense, if protecting one’s family is the motivation, that drive is going to supersede whatever perceived negative effects on the forum of deleting one’s posts. Even if the ability to dig stuff up via wayback makes the effort futile, that is a technical consideration, not a moral one.

I would rather not see all the deletions, but how much is that on the individual, and how much is that on the environment? Should the blame be laid on people for exposing their opinion rather on central authorities for making the non-conforming opinion a potential signal of domestic terrorism? The Overton window will shrink again tomorrow, “being uncancelable” is not really a robust strategy.

Juxtapose the decision of people nuking their account and posts here to what happened to Star Slate Codex. Is he going to receive an outpouring of support from public intellectuals and a $250k per annum agreement with Substack? Or just a few sympathetic words from other utterers of recently verboten things?

[mathiverse]

Usually, the contributions of users are limited to their posts. If you delete them ALL, you've cancelled all your contributions, plus you’re screwing things up for the future readers.
You’re effectively creating negative value.

I disagree that deleting posts cancels all the contributions of a person. There are posts that I've read and never come back to, but that were useful and that created value for me. If those posts were deleted, I would still have accrued value from it. In fact, for someone who has read a post, it's often irrelevant if the post remains since the reader has already got the value they could from the post. Some posts that help a person solve a specific problem at a specific time also created a lot of their value in the moment without as much to be gained by future readers.

I agree future, potential value created when future readers gain from the knowledge/thoughts is lost when a post is deleted. However, a lot of the value created while the post existed wasn't destroyed when the post was deleted. I don't think bigato's or ffj's or cL's value creation on the ERE forums is negative because they deleted their post history since I can still point out ways their posts influenced me or gave me value even if the original posts don't exist anymore.

Also, I've read a lot of the archives. While it's noticeable when someone has deleted their post history and there are gaps, the threads with gaps are still valuable. The value with gaps is certainly reduced, but fortunately a lot of the insightful posters haven't deleted their post history, so there is still a lot of insight to be gained from old threads.

EDIT: When it comes to deleted journals, those are mostly destroyed, so the prior paragraph doesn't apply as much. Most other threads are still useful though.

[ffj]

@Seppia

Well, I've already given a reason and an apology for fucking up the flow of some threads and if you or anybody else believes it is misguided, rude, childish, selfish, adolescent, egotistical then that's o.k. Frankly, all of you that are upset are giving me way too much credit as being relevant. That's not a fish for a compliment, that's the truth. However, I am comfortable with my decision, and like I promised I said I would return in some capacity, this time without divulging everything about me. Think of it as my 2.0, if that helps, but with more cautiousness.

Have you considered that this forum in its totality may go away at some point? It's a possibility. I say this because you may want to temper your reaction to a few of us exercising our creative rights to the possibility of everything disappearing one day. There is nothing permanent about a bunch of people volunteering their expertise and life histories, on platforms and hosting sites we have no control over. Don't read too much into this, I'm just making the point that the wish for permanence is perhaps the adolescent attitude? Maybe we should celebrate the interactions we did experience in real time?

You keep mentioning how much I've taken from this community without ever giving me credit for what I have contributed. I was already posting for 6 years before you decided to grace us with your presence. I was never a philosopher, or an historian, no deep thoughts ever coming from me, but I could show people blue collar skills and I think I did so enough to cover what I took from everybody else. This is probably the only point of yours that actually offends me so take from that what you will. Plus you are discounting that I can't continue doing so in the future, which is puzzling.

Time to move on my friend.

[Alphaville]

did anyone say philosophy?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraclitus#Becoming

anyway, as a bit of a traveler, this looks to me like an intercultural clash between libertarian-inclined americans (egoists!) vs. community-minded europeans (socialists!), and an assortment of people in between.

or maybe i'm making up false "dichotomies"

ok, i'm being a little cartoonish to make a point, but your different perspectives won't be bridged easily. so you guys might want to agree to disagree, and not take it personally, because clearly you have different ideologies regarding certain things, and you can't convince each other that your own is the right one.

that in itself may not be a solution, but accepting the difference it is at least a start for better communication, which might get us somewhere eventually.

[Seppia]

I may sound overly concerned/angry at this but I’m not.

The bottom line is that Jacob has allowed this, so that’s the rule and that’s what’s ok on this board. He obviously dictates what’s acceptable and what’s not here.

As he pointed out repeatedly, actions have first, second and third order ramifications.
For example, I know I’m going to (carefully!) use the quote option more often from now on, so that the flow of the threads will not be screwed up by potential future deletions.
Others may just look at this and say, why care? And stop posting.
Jacob may decide it’s not worth it and just shut everything down (he has hinted this as a possibility).
That would be very bad, and a semi-direct consequence of the deletions.

I will only point out that while talking about exercising imaginary creative rights, I have still not seen a reason for deleting posts that contain zero traceable information.
Also, on most forums if one starts editing and cancelling all their posts, he/she gets immediately banned because it’s a fairly accepted fact that once you post you should more or less leave things there.

@MI yes of course if there’s danger it’s a completely different ball game, I thought I made it clear at the beginning.
Still, if a person living in the largest democracy on the planet feels sharing how to tie a knot on the internet or discussing about the TER of an index ETF may endanger him/her, I think we may have a problem

[ZAFCorrection]

From a personal strategy perspective, I think the only potential mistake anyone might be making is over-preparing/reacting for/to events of trivially small probability.

Everything follows Le Chatelier's principle, or whatever the generalized name is, to some extent, and penalizing all the randos on the internet for wrongthink is pretty damn far out of equilibrium. Literally 1984 levels of cartoonish evil. But then the counter argument is fat tails and whatever so people can freak out about anything while having a body of literature to back it up. Kind of curious where the line is.