My side of the mountain

Where are you and where are you going?
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thef0x
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Re: My side of the mountain

Post by thef0x »

Restoring some history

What a beauty. A 1955 Singer 15-91, the farmer's sewing machine or "farmer's wife", a classic model with a direct drive motor.

When it arrived, the obvious issue was it was dirty, but very little rust was visible on any part of the machine. A huge win.

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The electronics worked enough to power the light and run the motor but after a few stitches, it started to slow down a ton and eventually seize.

I was able to turn the handwheel, however, so I knew the internals were fine and the motor was my big issue.

I started by cleaning up as much as I could with a damp rag, just getting the layer of dust off, disassembling as I went. Just a few screws and plates here and there to keep organized. I hit it with some pressurized air (electric blower with tiny nozzle) and then went over all the innards with sewing machine oil.

I then began to disassemble the motor, starting with removing the handwheel.

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The grease in here is absolutely gnarly.

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Time to wipe that all out. Turned out the interior had some deteriorated paint mixed in with the grease which was my guess as to why it seized up.

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It still wasn't turning how I wanted so I decided to open the potted motor and see what she looked like. Oof.

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I wire brushed as much black flecked paint off as I could, including a light bit of rust, but this ^^ is supposed to look like red copper.

Interior:

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I also noticed the wire connections were pathetic.

Cleaned it up as best I could:

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Soldered the connections, reassembled the motor, applied a ton of grease to the moving parts, and put the whole thing back together.

How she's looking now:

https://i.imgur.com/UvVX25r.mp4
Last edited by thef0x on Sat Dec 28, 2024 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

AxelHeyst
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Re: My side of the mountain

Post by AxelHeyst »

What a cool project! Well done and thanks for sharing.

jacob
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Re: My side of the mountain

Post by jacob »

thef0x wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2024 3:02 pm
... applied a ton of grease to the moving parts ...
What kind? How to choose? Where to source?

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thef0x
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Re: My side of the mountain

Post by thef0x »

2024 Money Wrap Up

Tracking every purchase

This ended up feeling bothersome because it led me to perseverate too much about little things that don't matter anymore. I didn't really do anything different with this information so knowing what categories go to what is interesting but I think a monthly review is a smarter. If something really wonky doesn't add up, at year end I can go in and try to find categorization errors in my tracking app.

It was useful, though, to know our rough discretionary spending budget compared to our minimum spend budget. Given how low this amount is in absolute dollars, and given that we've met our minimum spend budget needs via 2 income sources now (business income & equities 4%SWR), all of the extra is padding for discretionary fun.

Sure the amounts of minimum spend will go up over time but besides some larger payments in the future (kid edu), I think our discretionary-spend growth rate will exceed our minimum-spend growth rate. I'm not saying we end up using all of the discretionary spend money at all, I think we'd be happy to get to a lower SWR given how young we are, but it's cool that's where it's going now (vs just reaching minimum spend being covered by equities @ 4%).

Travel

In 2023, our travel was fun but not nearly as abundant as 2024. We did more road trips and house-sat (with the accompanying requirements on time / location restriction) so spend ended up being minimal -- all with a <2 year old kiddo just to prove it to ourselves that we weren't going to give up on our resource-optimized travel/remote-work lifestyle.

In 2024, we let our guard down on spending and unsurprisingly, it made things easier, less stressful, and in some cases, more memorable.

Parsing how I best enjoyed the extra spent money, I've discovered that I'm 100% a spa queen.

I absolutely loved the onsen culture/experience in Japan. I cannot emphasize how "correct" this version of spa feels to me. I am very very ready to go back to Japan and I've only been gone for a couple of months. I really enjoyed Japan.

France, idk, it didn't hit right this time. I think it was because 1) we refused to use screens to quell my kid and 2) European cafe culture, which we relish and enjoy so much when we're there, is not compatible with an energetic two year old. The leisure that we enjoy so much in Western Europe didn't mesh, so we hit a ton of playgrounds, did a bunch of cured meat spreads, and we hiked a lot. It was great but I went in really wanting that cafe culture vibe and was disappointed here.

This is a wisdom thing so glad to have learned this lesson and I think I'll lean more on my wife to weigh in with her past experience as a nanny on these trips, even if she is way more biased to Europe than I am these days.

So while France was cheaper, I still didn't find the brutal travel to be worth it this go around.

Other lessons re travel: 2 months between 1 month trips and best to schedule out road trips a bit more (car died this year and we didn't get a car with range so that was also a big factor -- also cancelled a trip to the SW in Q1 to be there for family).

Unexpected spend

The lesson here is to expect and plan for the unexpected spend? I think I have done this by having such a large nest egg, so allocating resources proactively in account/budget for this seems silly, instead I'll just expect there to be more unexpected spend in 2025 and pat ourselves on the back that we've been smart enough to have these things matter zero. <-- paradigm shift, esp for my wife.

How we'd spend more in 2025

A bit more on hobbies -- that feeling of "unrestrained resources" at my fingertips re fabrics / gear production sounds really cool. In reality it would probably be an extra $200 of spend a year for my "limitless" change re gear production.

Still toying with this idea ("~limitless spend on specific categories") as I'm not sure I like it philosophically. This is a Ramit Sethi idea btw.

Even fancier dinners for friends. Fancier = nicer groceries, to be clear. Just higher quality cuts of meat, for example, or picking ingredients based on how well they'll all pair together more than what's in the fridge or on sale.

A bit more on tea -- currently spending $0 -- to expand my horizons into some newer flavors I have yet to explore (Gyokuro and Sencha in 2025). I think I will probably be able to get this to be very low again because of connections and that's all I'll say there without doxing myself, but I'll be happy to spend a bit of money on this in 2025. I drank much less coffee in 2024 overall, so that will also offset things.

More spa-like experiences while traveling, which to me means any of the following: hot hot water, sauna, steam room, massage, meditation, tea.

How we'd spend less in 2025

Frankly, I'm drawing a blank, which I'm going to call a huge win.

Done with money talk

I don't think more money talk is going to enhance my experience here, so I think I'm going to be done talking about it on this journal in a recurring, ~organized way. I'm sure I'll mention money related topics but I don't want money to be as big of a focus in my life anymore.

In 2025, I'm excited to sink deeper into fun (play) and love (friends and family).

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My wife got me a ton of matching small white plates from good will because she knows I've wanted more than three for awhile :D

And she also did some collaborative art with my kiddo for another gift, pretty fun vibe and melts my g dang heart:

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thef0x
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Re: My side of the mountain

Post by thef0x »

Questioning assumptions

I have a few built in scripts that run in my head that I haven't reviewed in a long time. Like any server, I need to review the crontab on a semi frequent basis to make sure everything that is running, should be running, and nothing is running that shouldn't be (perhaps far more importantly).

I've been thinking more about how ~ERE squares with my own personal happiness in terms of an ideological focus on the zero-sum nature of things, a script that's been running in my mind far before I found Jacob's book or this forum.

Another is the idea that I'm not competitive.

One more is that population declines will lead to mega-bad global collapse.

My kid will be worse off than me.

..

Uncovering these scripts is a bit challenging, the water you swim in deal. And having discovered these question-able scripts, I still believe them to be true.

But.. I'm not sure I should be running these scripts so frequently because focusing on them is making me less happy*. How often does a database need to be cleaned up? It depends on what it's being used for.

* Specifically non-local, hyper scaled problems like climate change, population collapse, or even a meteorological extinction event.

In my case, my actions & values themselves already point toward taking these realities to heart. I consider my local / personal way of addressing climate change, for example, to be on a spectrum of possible actions that is less consumptive than many around me but nowhere near the median (or close to most on this forum). But -- here's that script -- I beat myself up about not being below the global average. Why?! I'm not even sure it's feasible for me to consume less than most humans just by virtue of the infrastructure I utilize for living essentials.

I'm reminding myself repeatedly how bad the metacrisis is, how pointless my actions feel against it, and yeah, unhappy vibes. And it doesn't actually change what I'm doing -- if anything, it's making being efficient harder** because my local actions feel so unimportant against the global scope of problems.

** I have the money to be less efficient at this point so this is a values decision, not a money decision, as solving problems with money while over-consuming is easy but antithetical to my values.

..

So a few things to do here in 2025 and beyond:

Be checked in with the scientific reality / nature of things. <-- better understanding of population decline (hypothetical) implications, better understanding of biological adaptation, better understanding of human resilience re challenging/changing climates***.

Narrow my scope to local-focus for 99% of thought cycles <-- lol, but any dent of change here is positive [this is the hard part]

Find / build / be the change more frequently. <-- I immediately think of how I can do this with my kid, which feels great / homeotelic.

Even less news. <-- I can automate this better via pihole

More time in nature. <-- I think this will make even more sense in 2025 based on plans rumbling around in my head.

*** I'm vaguely worried this will make me even less happy but I'd rather have the truth than be an ostrich.

..

I love this forum and feel at home / in sync with the general attitudes of folks here regarding consumption and the metacrisis but I think I will step back from reading the forum discussions about how everything is kinda fucked. It's ~true and also bumming me out and it feels wrong in scale, causing a sort of emotional category error.

So for 2025, one of my mantras is "keep things local". I think this summarizes the sentiment well.

\\

The "I'm not competitive" script feels like a different sort of project to explore but one worth doing. There are advantages to being competitive that I haven't really considered taking on because "I'm not competitive".

This feels like a strangely hard egg to crack as this is an oooooold script, so exploration here in 2025 as well.

\\

@Jacob -- petroleum jelly I had in the house (offbrand) based on these threads https://www.reddit.com/r/vintagesewing/ ... lubricant/ and this https://www.quiltingboard.com/vintage-a ... 28612.html.

Will need to reapply more frequently but that's okay for this machine as it's not my daily driver.

\\

A few pics

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Check out these bongos! Holy smokes this was the best bread my wife has made yet. The "eggie toast" experience our family has been enjoying has been phenomenal.

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"Why does your house smell like burning plastic?"

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Making another 12v battery, which I think I'll document and post here, so top-balancing the cells here in this picture, ensuring each cell is at as close to the same energy balance as possible before assembling the battery + attaching the BMS.

Our van (RIP) had a roof storage container that I attached a 100w mono panel to and it's just sitting in the garage taking up space so I think I have to figure out how to run wire out to the panel in a not-ugly-but-temporary-because-maybe-ugly way so I can recharge our ebikes exclusively via solar because cool and because I have all the parts and because I have to for the environmentohnoi'mdoingitagain

delay
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Re: My side of the mountain

Post by delay »

thef0x wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2025 7:12 pm
My kid will be worse off than me.
Thanks for your journal update! Even if the average kid is worse off than his parent, that just shifts the baseline. An individual kid can do better.

Also, do you mean materially worse off? In the sense that they will have fewer consumptive goods? That doesn't mean less happy. When I walked through a slum in India I was surprised by how happy the kids were. They were running around, playing with each other, trying to trick adults, and having fun. In The Netherlands, I see kids fighting with their parents over what they want to eat, pitying themselves or being glued to their smartphone.
thef0x wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2025 7:12 pm
Be checked in with the scientific reality / nature of things. <-- better understanding of population decline (hypothetical) implications, better understanding of biological adaptation, better understanding of human resilience re challenging/changing climates***.
Science is I think very much like religion. In a way the resurrection of Jesus is like space travel but for a different age. It's a beautiful story we believe in but cannot verify. If you think long enough the idea that the human brain can contain truth seems somewhat far fetched. The best we can do is approximations or models. So if you want to know the impact of climate change, visit the sea and see for yourself. The sea is rising but at such a slow speed! Whether it's 1mm a year or 3mm a year. A human lifespan is so short we can model sea level as roughly constant.

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thef0x
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Re: My side of the mountain

Post by thef0x »

@Delay thanks for your reply and your perspective.

I don't worry about the material parts quite as much -- although I guess I have concerns about quality of life eventually reaching terminal decline for humanity. I'm also not worried about him being happy. I'm worried about the world he'll live in when I'm gone. I'm worried about humanity.

Your comment about science being like religion prickled me a bit to start, I'll be honest, but your line "It's a beautiful story we believe in but we cannot verify" really resonated with me.

I think I have a lot of these stories in my head. Makes sense; we're forward thinking creatures.

But, like religion, these stories are prophecies. And I think prophecies are kinda dumb, so why am I indulging in them when I could be drinking tea or reading a cool book or falling asleep in blankets on a grassy hill with my kid.

I think that's the bigger take away / mental shift: I want to spend less time focused on what (negative) could be.

And why, ya know, when there's so much beauty and richness right here, right now.

For example, it's gorgeous outside.

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Or pondering why my kid eats bananas hamburger style

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Cam
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Re: My side of the mountain

Post by Cam »

Have you ever seen or read any of Michael Dowd's content? He passed away in October 2023 but all his content is still available.

https://postdoom.com/

From what I've read, you wouldn't benefit from the Collapse 101 videos, but I suggest watching some of his sermons. E.g. https://youtu.be/-BkhoQ_dTKY?si=rEt2Zuo3mFNkyynd

He also has Post-Doom conversations too that he had with many folks in the deep-green environmental space. He was a cool dude and I suggest you try out some of his videos!

They're great for me whenever I'm having a hard time processing what's happening in the world. It's one thing on an intellectual level to know what's up, but the emotional level is an entirely different story.

delay
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Re: My side of the mountain

Post by delay »

thef0x wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:58 pm
Your comment about science being like religion prickled me a bit to start, I'll be honest, but your line "It's a beautiful story we believe in but we cannot verify" really resonated with me.
Thanks for your reply and sharing the beautiful pictures. The mountains sure look gorgeous!

Science is the belief that everything is material and that formulas and simulations given by authorities are truth. When I studied physics I think my teachers tried to convey this fact, but when I really understood it at age 47 I was shocked. After the initial shock I felt joy at having escaped this depressive world view.

7Wannabe5
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Re: My side of the mountain

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

What fun to have a sideways banana eater in your life!

Your note on not being competitive struck me, because the results of recent DNA analysis indicate that I have the genes for "competitive", but not for "ambitious." So, I've been pondering the difference. For example, one good thing about being "competitive but not ambitious" is that you have little internal motivation to cheat. Another good thing about being "competitive but not ambitious" is that it conserves resources, because the internal token costs less energy to maintain than the external status symbol. "I could if I wanted to..." seems lazy and is unlikely to appease the more concrete-minded, but it saves all the resources that might have been burned towards creating the proof. Also, and this may be less relevant to your own analysis, since more in alignment with mid-century feminine-gender socialization, I think some of what I meant when I used to think "I'm not competitive" was more towards, "I'm not violent." and/or "noblesse oblige." IOW, "I am a lady." or "I am a gentlewoman." inhibits me. For example, when I was in high school, I became less competitive in my behavior when I learned that one of my opponents was frequently beaten by his step-father. Generally, when I consider how the males of my species are so often jostling with each other for status, I feel inclined to step aside from the fray, even though I certainly do enjoy to indulge in verbal debate.

On the topic of the meta-crisis, I think you might enjoy the Sunita Narain interview I linked in the Recommended Watching thread. A related note would be that the balance between increasing human population and increasing consumption per human tipped around the turn of the millenium. However, there definitely are problems with simply focusing on reducing consumption. Widening out from producer/consumer to include scavenger/decomposer/forager and sex/trade/innovation and curator/editor/conservor/caretaker in the cycle/system/design greatly increases possibilities and also tends towards improving motivation. Otherwise it's just Human grow potato/Human eat potato until humans might as well be potatoes themselves.

IOW, a steady-state solution does not exist, but this makes the possibilities for loop closure even more wonderful and worthwhile. For example, every $ I don't waste meeting my survival needs due to being too short-sighted to close a loop is a $ I can spend on indulging my curiousity, sensuality, or sense of fun. Of course kids running free in the company of other kids on the rough streets in India are having more fun than an affluent American child sitting inside alone with her electronic devices. I saw this all the time when I taught in heavy influx of immigrants neighborhood,and this is why I refer to Generation Alpha as Generation Ragamuffin/PoorLittleRichKid. Most kids are either isolated and significantly over-protected OR isolated and significantly under-protected, and it's entirely possible that "freely associating" and under-protected, running in a pack of other kids, is better than isolated and over-protected. It might be better if most women have zero children and some women have a sibling pack of 4-8 kids than this odd only or pair-raised human culture we are creating. In retrospect, one of the very best things I did for my "only two" kids was to create many situations in which they interacted with their cousins for long periods of time, and also put them in sibling-like daycare situations, and also chose to live in a neighborhood which was safe/open enough that they could have adventures and unsupervised imaginative play, even though my primary motivation was that I could lounge about reading novels, if all I had to do to keep them outside playing and out of my hair was provide the occasional 5 cent/serving popsicle out of the freezer for the whole gang at my backdoor.

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thef0x
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Re: My side of the mountain

Post by thef0x »

Thinking about grief and grieving today. If this fairly emotional tone isn't the right read for you today, feel free to skip this one.

--

Today is the day that my lovely Uncle died last year. I've been thinking fondly of him today. My family has been sharing moments, quotes, photos, and videos, and we're all just cherishing him and the impact he had on our lives.

My uncle was "special" as they say, and from a young age I was taught that he was more like a kid than an adult. As such, growing up, I quickly learned to take care of him the best I could, even as an 8 year old.

Gosh, his laugh was so boisterous and unfiltered and loud and hilarious. Just unconstrained. He never understood sarcasm or double meanings. I was making him pancakes a couple of years ago and I asked him if he wanted a little bit of love or extra love in his pancakes. Sheepish and quiet, he said "I don't need any love added to my pancakes". My sweetest guy. I hugged him and held him close and simply said, "too bad".

That was who my uncle was. He loved elephants. We'd go to the zoo together often to watch them when we could -- or to see the other towering animals and small puttering sounds of penguins walking.

I fell in love with my wife watching her take his hand, nobody watching, to lead him to his seat at my sister's wedding. Seeing the kissy-face selfies she took with him, stealing my phone -- him not really being able to do it / get it, making a hilarious face, sort of a pucker and blowing out.

My uncle taught me how to constantly see the world with fresh eyes (or at least try). He taught me how to be kind. How to take people at face value, naively, innocently, noticing the sometimes rough and tough energy random strangers would bring his way. My uncle rolled with the punches, always a please and thank you around the corner. Being grumpy was rare for him but hilarious.

My uncle had that infectious love in him. A truly impenetrable shield of kindness because he didn't understand hate or malice, literally.

I remember taking him out to coffee to get out of the house, get on a walk, smell the smells, see dogs. After serving him his latte, our waitress asked him if he wanted any sugar in his coffee. "Oh no thanks, I'm sweet enough as it is".

I miss him dearly. Watching him pass away was intense and I can find myself in that zone/energy/moment and it scares me still. But a year later, the volume on those feelings is turned down and I'm left feeling full, cherishing it all.

Grieving my uncle has been easy. Uncomplicated. Beautiful, frankly.

--

Today is strange because I'm feeling a tougher sense of grief that I've been processing for quite some time, making progress in spurts, certainly. That grief is the feeling of letting my hopes for a deep relationship with my dad pass.

Growing up when my dad would come home from work, hearing the crunching gravel in our driveway, we'd quickly hurry to grab our things and go to our rooms to avoid his anger. We'd hide and come down for dinner eventually, later in high school without much talking. My dad would ask how each of our days went. An interrogation instead of a bid for connection. Right and wrong answers.

I was never a rebellious kid, really. I did some drugs in high school -- was awesome -- but I was the guy reading through erow*****(censoring this cuz idk, if you know you know) endlessly before indulging, never reckless. Didn't get great grades because I never respected my dad, didn't have anything to prove. But I paid attention and did well because I was interested enough.

I chose the school I attended in college because I got the most scholarship money from them, not because it was the best school I got into. I didn't want to give my dad any power or feeling of responsibility over my success because, frankly, he didn't deserve it.

My dad lied to all of my immediate family about some things -- harmless to us except for the lying -- and I remember growing up "catching him" and hiding it from my mom and sisters to "protect them". Of course they all knew, I found out years later, processing together. I didn't speak to him for eight months then and as a result he forced me to go to a mens retreat with him where we had a big snotty messy therapy session in front of everyone else there -- it was incredibly powerful -- and I thought things would change. Narrator: "they didn't".

I think that was when my heart really broke alongside my hope. Naively, I thought this was all about me, of course. I'm a kid after all. If only I could do this, then that. I hold my past self tight knowing it was the best I could do.

My mom was my/our saving grace. She was the opposite of him. And now, later, I know, as he resented my mom's love and attention towards us because of his own abandonment, my mom's care and love towards us grew in proportion. She was trying to protect us too, however messy and flawed her actions were.

It was in Glasgow, studying abroad, that I had that truly epiphenal moment: I needed to forgive myself.

I had run myself over the coals my whole life. Truly making myself cynical and sour, frustrated and sad.

I finally realize two things: 1) this was never about me, and 2) I needed to free myself from the attachment I had to being a victim, however appropriate it was to handle how I grew up.

I remember the cherry blossoms on that walk. Truly, a storm had lifted.

I came home my own person, free of both him and how sad I had made myself. When I arrived in the airport, my mom immediately said "You are a man now."

I was.

This isn't some happy story :D

Thankfully my mom broke up with him soon thereafter. The rejection and pain he felt caused him to actually change, strangely enough. He wanted a mom, in my mom, and when she cut him off, he realized he had to actually own his own life for the first time.

With caution and trepidation and some therapy, I was open to him coming back into my life. I've always wanted a loving dad. I'm just a god damn softy, y'all.

Things improved, much to our dismay. His anger subsided. He reached out to connect, invited us over for casual dinners with his new wife. He mellowed.

I could never trust him, though. And I've had to work on those scars and continue to do so, because god damn, I am absolutely paranoid/terrified about those who I bring into my life who are meant to love me. My wife. My wife, my god, I love her. She understood enough to know when I was driven by fear and pain and the lying to my face from someone who was supposed to love me the most, who was supposed to protect me, not terrify me.

My father in law -- showing genuine kindness WAY TOO EARLY in my relationship with him -- of course that was a trick. A scam. No older-dude could actually just be loving to me like that. Man, he's been my north star for a lot of stuff, seeing his kids love him so much as a dad, and my son loving him so much as a grandfather ("Ga ga").

Unfortunately, as time has passed, my dad's changes have slid behind him, much our disappointment. I don't really know what was happening for him then or now. The thing he says is "I'm not going to apologize anymore for being who I am".

I can feel for my dad. He has his own stuff, objectively worse than how I was raised -- not an excuse, just trying to see the world.

But it's been really challenging and strange to have had my own son because... I cannot help but love him so fucking hard. I wake up in the middle of the night and just listen to his little breaths and snores (hilarious).

It's so easy to love my son.

And so tough to realize that this was there for him and he chose, or couldn't choose, maybe, to resent us instead of love us. To hide and lie instead of show up. That he loved our dogs demonstrably and could barely stand me.

The grief I'm feeling is the grief of letting go of that hope and desire to have a loving, kind, happy dad.

This grief is painful. This grief is ugly. This grief is an inherited legacy of bad decisions from my grandparents and my dad and, with love, even my mom.

This grief has been hard to digest because its opposite is so god damn big and obvious: my love for my own son.

So today, I'm thinking about grief and about who I want to be.

As such, I'll pass on the sugar today, because, well, at least I'm trying to be sweet enough as is.

I love you Uncle Scott. Thank you for teaching me what it means to be good.

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thef0x
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Re: My side of the mountain

Post by thef0x »

Cam wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2025 7:13 am
Have you ever seen or read any of Michael Dowd's content? He passed away in October 2023 but all his content is still available.

https://postdoom.com/

From what I've read, you wouldn't benefit from the Collapse 101 videos, but I suggest watching some of his sermons. E.g. https://youtu.be/-BkhoQ_dTKY?si=rEt2Zuo3mFNkyynd

He also has Post-Doom conversations too that he had with many folks in the deep-green environmental space. He was a cool dude and I suggest you try out some of his videos!

They're great for me whenever I'm having a hard time processing what's happening in the world. It's one thing on an intellectual level to know what's up, but the emotional level is an entirely different story.
These lectures / sermons were very mind bending and interesting for me. I'm not sure if I feel hopeful or optimistic. Maybe "centered" is where they took me.

Thank you for the share, I really enjoyed these and again, I found them helpful in a way I'm not sure how to articulate. Genuinely appreciate you sharing them, Cam.

Goodness still exists after gloom is pithy way to summarize for myself.

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thef0x
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Re: My side of the mountain

Post by thef0x »

delay wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2025 7:59 am
Science is the belief that everything is material and that formulas and simulations given by authorities are truth. When I studied physics I think my teachers tried to convey this fact, but when I really understood it at age 47 I was shocked. After the initial shock I felt joy at having escaped this depressive world view.
Thanks for your comment, Delay, and I'll try to poke a bit. This is at least how I'm thinking about these differing 'world views':

I don't actually think "science" presupposes any world view. "Science" is really the scientific method and it's agnostic about all facts and enjoys being wrong. It's the only sport where you win points for disproving your colleagues. (Imagine that in the bible).

It's a method of epistemic discovery, not a worldview. So, if the world were so, the scientific method would help us discover that god is real, that there is an afterlife, and that the world is flat. It's simply a way to interrogate the world we find ourselves in.

Science doesn't presuppose materialism, rather it ends up at materialism based on the barrage of experiments that have taken place over time. A beautiful corpus of human knowledge given to us by real world experimentation. We get to live on those shoulders, enjoying our smart phones with full bellies.

Turns out, this method of inquiry points us to substance monism but science does not declare "there is no god substance," instead it says "we haven't seen evidence yet"*. Plenty of folks are continuing to look, see panpsychism.

I personally have a hard time not believing this method is the way to correctly learn about the world. This is probably my own modernist bias (see J+G's thread pages 39-41 about this, super interesting). I'm not the kind of person who can be convinced by something because it feels better to me / is relieving. I just don't "feel truth" in that way, I guess.

The scientific method is a level up from basic phenomenological investigation of consciousness, imo. I don't experience it as an argument or perspective in any way. It's simply the structure that we've built up through time, investigating reality. We have a big "paradigm shift" (see Kuhn, however flawed) and what we think we know changes dramatically --> geocentric vs heliocentric Earth or even wackier, quantum mechanics. "Science" is never settled.

I'm glad you are happy with where you've ended up in your pursuit of these topics. Sometimes I wish I could try on a different perspective about substance monism but ultimately, for me, it just feels like lying to myself, even when I get wild and reject physicalism and exclusively wear my foundationalist pants (hey there Descartes).

I think we disagree about science being a perspective (values&facts-laden) vs a method of inquiry and that's cool. Hopefully at least I made some sense in my response, even if you don't buy it. Apologies for the jargon and isms!

* I think you can use logic to quickly get yourself to substance monism: any effect has a cause, and for a cause to have an effect, it must be of the same thing from which that effect can have a cause. As such, whatever you call it, the substance of existence is singular. This is my own take but I'm sure smarter folks have written about this better than I.

berrytwo
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Re: My side of the mountain

Post by berrytwo »

Thank you so much for sharing your journey with your Uncle and Dad. I was really moved hearing about both relationships, the different forms of grief, and the love you have for your son.

ertyu
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Re: My side of the mountain

Post by ertyu »

strength, dude.

ThoreauGoing
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Re: My side of the mountain

Post by ThoreauGoing »

thef0x wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2025 11:26 pm
So today, I'm thinking about grief and about who I want to be.
This entire reflection was beautiful. I admire you for sharing it. Grieving well is the acceptance of what you can't change, but it can bring into relief your own agency. You get to choose the man and father you will be. I have no doubt that you will choose well.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: My side of the mountain

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

This hits the feels pretty hard man, thank you for being vulnerable enough to share.

delay
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Re: My side of the mountain

Post by delay »

Thanks for your sharing your grief and thoughts! A ritual way of embracing with grief is like the Japanse do. They make a small altar with a picture of the deceased. Every morning they bring a glass of water and light a candle to honor the deceased. The ritual feels powerful when I do it.

To continue in the magical line of thinking, it helps me to think of a hated family member as partly possessed by a bad spirit. Like, there may be the spirit of pride that really wants to avoid losing face. This way, I can love the good parts and forgive the bad.
thef0x wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2025 12:29 am
I don't actually think "science" presupposes any world view.
For me, the world view of science is that what universities teach is authoritative. You can only get a Ph.D. if the existing scientific establishment approves of you, and you study a topic that they are willing to fund, with results that they accept. To use your terms, I think science is deeply traditionalist.

When I think of modernists I think of the engineers who create mobile phones, railway bridges and power plants.
thef0x wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2025 12:29 am
any effect has a cause, and for a cause to have an effect, it must be of the same thing from which that effect can have a cause
What does an apple seed grow into? I've always found the mechanical explanations lacking. Biology can describe the steps the seed will go through, but it says nothing about their meaning. Plato would say there is an eternal and unchanging tree form that the seed is aspiring to. To me, the explanation of a spirit guiding the apple seed to grow into an apple tree seems most plausible.

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thef0x
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Re: My side of the mountain

Post by thef0x »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:04 am
What fun to have a sideways banana eater in your life!

...

On the topic of the meta-crisis, I think you might enjoy the Sunita Narain interview I linked in the Recommended Watching thread. A related note would be that the balance between increasing human population and increasing consumption per human tipped around the turn of the millenium. However, there definitely are problems with simply focusing on reducing consumption. Widening out from producer/consumer to include scavenger/decomposer/forager and sex/trade/innovation and curator/editor/conservor/caretaker in the cycle/system/design greatly increases possibilities and also tends towards improving motivation. Otherwise it's just Human grow potato/Human eat potato until humans might as well be potatoes themselves.
He's the best and reminds me that there are no intrinsic rules for many things in life, only inherited scripts. Maybe we're the ones eating bananas "wrong" :D

Thank you for sharing that interview, I wanted to watch it before responding. I appreciate the widening perspective of human activity and, surprise surprise, it feels very ERE2 to me (am still a complete noob here!). I think your description of human eat potato resonates with a bit of that pessimistic side of my mind that I sometimes have a hard time grappling with. Contrarily, it's good to remind myself that even in the worst of times, we make art, we dance, we joke, and we share.

Humans are social animals and stepping out of my singular, personal identity into a slightly more social, collective identity is therapeutic and true (enough to me to believe). In that sense, the mission is expanding consciousness, imo.

Instead of thinking of the puzzle of increasing consciousness (if you're pro-natalist, this means increasing wellbeing) on a horizontal axis, the goal is to increase the total volume of consciousness, thereby suggesting that the horizontal axis of producing an environment that can harbor consciousness is just as valid. Put more simply, we have time on our side, even if populations decline (dramatically) in the ~near future.

In big ways for me emotionally, that realization gives me hope.

Appreciate your chiming in!

BTW!!!! Your response on J+G's thread was the final straw that got me to request Spiral Dynamics from my library. Too many interesting discussions are passing me by or I'm reiterating ideas y'all have already been talking about, so I figure I'll have to dive in. Thanks for that push! :)

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thef0x
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Re: My side of the mountain

Post by thef0x »

@berrytwo, @ertyu, @ThoreauGoing, @2b1s, @Delay --

I sincerely appreciate the generous, affirming words. I want to be the kind of person who can wear these things outwardly, proudly maybe, knowing I can be a strong dude in my own emotions. Letting these challenges constrict me feels like letting them have more dominion over me than I'd like. I appreciate hearing from you all that I wasn't too too emo :D Stuff's tough sometimes.

I shared all of your comments with my wife. There's just something about the folks in this community. It's so cool to be here with you all.

Thanks again.

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