ERE in the richest/expensivest country

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viking
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:35 am

ERE in the richest/expensivest country

Post by viking »

Well, maybe not the richest but Norway apparently has a median wealth of $92.000 per capita.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... _per_adult
According to the same list we also have a considerable amount of debt per capita. The culture of getting a big mortage to have your own house is pretty similar to the US, but our national finances are in much better shape with low unemployment, mainly because of our oil exports. Our welfare system is pretty good too, government spending is high and so are tax rates.

I was born in 1985 into a family who never had money problems and grew up as an only child. At the age of 13 I started working part time (delivering newspaper) and have worked ever since. This meant I always had money on me, and I could always afford to buy stuff I wanted, as opposed to my friends who had to manage $5-10 a week in allowance. If I couldn't afford it at the time I would ask my parents. I have been an alpha consumer throughout my childhood, teens and early adulthood! I graduated as a bookkeeper/accountant in 2009 with 0 in assets and total debt of about $25.000. At his point, asking my parents for financial aid felt embarrassing so I've atleast managed on my own since then! Some accountant uh :)

My starting income was $33.000 after taxes per year and not before 2012 did I start to seriously save. Well, what I thought was saving was nothing until I stumbled upon this site, my savings rate has been at about 10% from 2009-2013. Fact is I thought about early retirement a couple years ago and started saving for it. I aimed at partial retirement at 40. This year I made the decision to up my game and start spending less, saving more and retiring earlier. I was very lucky to inherit a substantial amount of money from my grandparents early this year, about $45.000, at which point I invested everything in an apartment that I'm renting out. Searching for a community of people doing the same thing I found this forum last week. I'm new to the ERE way of thinking, but it speaks alot to me.

I'm 29 yrs old. My aim is to quit being a work slave. Here is a quick overview on my savings and debt since I graduated:

2009
savings: 0
debt: $25.000

2013
savings: $15.000
debt: $18.000

2014
savings: $17.000
apartment value: $185.000
total debt: $153.000

My plan is to keep renting out the apartment and never sell it. Its a good investment, the rent pays for all running costs, interest and downpayments. The mortage interest is 3,3% and is expected to stay there for a while, so my savings will be invested at a (hopefully) higher yield than 3,3%. When savings exceed debt I will pay it all off.

My current budget has a savings rate of about 33%. I will increase this to 50% from November on and keep pushing it up but it gets abit harder from there. I picked up alot of good tips from this site though. Some costs take time to remove, for instance cable TV which expires in 5 months and Im not planning on renewing it. My nicotine addiction is another problem. I rent an apartment at $1.300/month and have a roommate who pays me $615. Its a big apartment and I put alot of value on having some space. We have winter here, I'm not planning on a gym membership and its just very convenient to have some indoor space for e.g. working out, especially if you consider that the rent I pay is about 40% below market value. I could cut my housing expenses from $685 (1300-615) to $620 a month but that would mean living in a house full of students and sharing bathroom/kitchen with them. I could cut it further but that would mean moving out of a town I love and probably taking a pay cut.

My total net income is $50.000 a year (overtime included) and my total net expenses currently $34.000 and I'm in the process of cutting it to $25.000.
Bear in mind my salary is pretty average for a full time worker with a Bachelors degree, and an 18-year old working full time at a grocery/clothing store here could easily net some $35.000 a year without overtime.

I'm saving $2.100/month from November on. In addition to that the rent from the apartment I own downpays debt with about $300/month. With those numbers I will be debt free in 2018, and in possession of a rental apartment that yields about $800 a month. $800 a month accounts for 20% of my net income, which means I could theoretically stop working on fridays and still make the same amount of money and savings every month.

Its hard to tell what the future holds though. I got married this year and my wife is on board with this ERE line of thinking, but we haven't finally decided on kids yet which is a major factor in all this, apart from agreeing that we want to wait atleast 5 years before having any. She's 25 and from a different continent. I'm tempted by the thought of retiring slowly, being in a long lasting transission from work slave to total freedom. I could work 80% in 2018, 60% in 2025, 40% in 2030 and so forth. We could also move to her home country where expenses are 1/10-2/10 compared to here.

I don't enjoy my job. I'm counting hours every day. My immediate plan is to cut expenditure and incorporate a cheaper life style, then focus on changing jobs.

viking
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:35 am

Re: ERE in the richest/expensivest country

Post by viking »

I made this thread with the purpose of introducing myself and my background, and also to sort of keep a journal of my progress. So here I am and hello everyone :) I will come here for advice, encouragement and knowledge and offer the same thing in return. Feel free to ask me questions in this thread as well. Everyone is welcome.

I track all my finances in excel. Tonight I'm going through all the stuff in my apartment and putting it up for sale online. What doesn't get sold will either be kept until it proves no use, bartered away or donated for free. I will keep personal must-haves like my laptop, necessary clothing, food etc but try sell everything else.

I have recently started going to this grocery store who has a policy that if something is expiring tomorrow or sooner, you can grab it for free. This includes everything in the shop except fresh fish, fruit and vegetables. Im heading there tonight because I took note of some bacon that will be for free today unless someone already bought it:)

What are peoples thoughts on US finances and the QE thats going on (its also happening in Europe and Japan). Won't this lead to (hyper)inflation at some point and eat up all the value of your money? Or are you all invested in stock markets, thinking that the markets will keep up with inflation? On that note, I just read that the Fed are stopping QE this month (atleast for now).

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Chris
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Re: ERE in the richest/expensivest country

Post by Chris »

viking wrote:Tonight I'm going through all the stuff in my apartment and putting it up for sale online.
Very exciting! After reading the ERE blog and YMOYL, I remember going through and having a critical look at each possession residing with me in my apartment. Seeing things in a different way was energizing. A core part of the ERE is making active decisions about the things that are important to you; the rest of the things you can put up for sale online (-:
viking wrote: What are peoples thoughts on US finances and the QE thats going on (its also happening in Europe and Japan). Won't this lead to (hyper)inflation at some point and eat up all the value of your money? Or are you all invested in stock markets, thinking that the markets will keep up with inflation?
I was against QE at the outset for that very reason. And yes, being invested in equities is part of my plan to not lose value to the "invisible tax". My other weapon is the ERE mindset: while inflation (measured as CPI) has been low in the US over the course of QE, I can say that my personal inflation rate has been lower still. So while hyperinflation is scary, the regular kind doesn't worry me so much.

Hankaroundtheworld
Posts: 470
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:50 am

Re: ERE in the richest/expensivest country

Post by Hankaroundtheworld »

Hi Viking, good to hear from Norway, you are lucky to be there, one of the Countries that has a good financial balance, which you cannot say about the rest of Europe :-)

What stroke me the most from your introduction is that you already at the age of 29 are counting the hours at work .... that is not a healthy situation. I mean, you are not an exception, but that normally happens after 20 years of work or so ... I would really suggest that you re-look at your working environment, you are young, you can take risks, so try out, and choose something that you really like. Becoming ERE requires at least 10-15 years of saving at 50% (for the paid job route, unless you start building your own revenue streams), so you better choose something that you like. 29 years of age is too young to feel miserable at work !!

viking
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:35 am

Re: ERE in the richest/expensivest country

Post by viking »

@Chris: Yes, it is indeed really cool going through stuff wondering how much you can get for it on the market and assessing the real value of things. I'm looking forward to being busy on phone 24/7 next week:p
I haven't read the Money Mustache blog yet, but its been in my bookmarks for some time now. Will definetely check it out!

@Hankaroundtheworld: Thanks, and yes I know. Changing jobs is on my priority list, but I chose to focus my energy on cutting expenses first, as it feels rewarding getting immediate results. Its not like my work is unbearable, but I'd like to do something else for 8+ hrs everyday.

My savings rate will quickly rise to 50% like I said, but I won't stop there. I believe I can push it to 55-60% before the end of 2015, and when my wife is fully established it can be pushed above 60%. When I'm debt free in 2018, supposing I choose to work full time, my income will get a $10.000 boost from the rental apartment and I will be at $60.000. If I can push my expenses down to $20.000-15.000, my savings rate will be 66%-75%, which is not too bad right? :)

Today I picked up a pound of free bacon and upgraded my internet speed at no extra charge!

viking
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:35 am

Re: ERE in the richest/expensivest country

Post by viking »

Yesterday I went to Sweden, our neighbouring country, where prices are lower. I live 1 hour away from the border and they have this free bus trip that takes you to a consumer shop where you can get cheaper groceries. I got some meat, coffee, vegetables and cheese at a heavy discount, and also some tobacco at less than half price. As much as being addicted to nicotine is an unnessecary expense, atleast I got it cheap. I saved about $400 compared to buying all that stuff in Norway. Everything done in 5 hours, which means I "made" $80 an hour on that trip.

Selling cds and dvds however I expect a much lower pay per hour.

viking
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:35 am

Re: ERE in the richest/expensivest country

Post by viking »

Selling unneccessary stuff from my apartment is going slow. I'm putting heavy discounts on everything and so far I've raised some $40. I hope to raise atleast another $100 which will pull me through a couple weeks food expenses. At some point I will start to give/gift away stuff.

November salary is coming soon and I'm achieving a savings rate of 41%. Its low due to putting a buffer into an account I'm paying bills from. In December I'm expecting a savings rate of 54%, which is close to my 2015 goal of 55-60% ($31.000). Part of the expenses here is student loan debt where I've included the downpayments as an expense (which is technically wrong), so the actual rate of saving is 69%.

I calculated that should we choose to move to DW's country, it will require about $8.000/year to live pretty comfortably at a sunny and warm coast. That's an SWR of 4% that I will reach in 2018. Knowing this fact is a great motivation for me going forward. I'm 29 and could theoretically become FI within 3 years and 8 months.

locheachles
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:00 am

Re: ERE in the richest/expensivest country

Post by locheachles »

Viking,

Great to hear from you. Will enjoy seeing your journey progress, as you have a nice "relate-able" situation (no crazy 150k salary at 24 or what not!) and these often paint the most interesting stories because anyone can understand them and be inspired.

As to the QE question you raised early on... The inflation/QE connection is a bit of a myth... It doesn't really work that way (not in the hyperinflation Wehrmacht Republic way, anyhow) because the Fed hasn't changed its money printing in any substantial way (as seems to be the common concern). They are merely offering bonds to grow Fed Gov. book assets. They are handing out more money but not drastically changing the money supply; in effect tweaking circulation. Of course, it is more layered than this... But there is no coming inflation-apocalypse. Inflation is relatively low, historically speaking, anyways. Most of the time it is strongly tied to global GDP which isn't exactly booming.

Cheers and keep up the writing... I love Norway (work in the Oil/Gas Commodities world) and can't wait to buy some SDRL... haha

viking
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:35 am

Re: ERE in the richest/expensivest country

Post by viking »

@locheacles
Thanks. On the SDRL note, when will you consider buying them? I see the drop in oil prices as a great opportunity to pick up a few good investments. So far I've bought a modest amount of STL shares.

I've made a budget for 2015. Everything is averaged into monthly numbers [$).

2015 budget:

Salary: 4.205

Student loan: 232
Rent: 692
Electricity: 128
Internet: 79
Transportation: 53
Medication, doctor appointments: 15
Cell phone: 15
Gym membership: 31
Unexpected: 18__________total bills: 1.264

Food, household: 308
Alcohol: 31
Snus: 92
Other: 494
Holiday: 192____________running expenses: 1.117

Total expenses/month: 2.381

Savings/month: 1.824
Savings/year: 21.893 (43%)

Some comments:
This doesn't really look like "ERE" to me. But its a major improvement from my past financial behaviour and theres room for improvement. On that note I welcome any suggestions:)

The upper part (bills) are mostly expenses that are hard to cut. Gym membership is something i value during winter because I don't do winter sports. My health is important so I will sign up for a boxing club for 6 months. I might be able to remove transportation costs if I can change job to something nearby, which I'm currently trying.

Food expenses are pretty much low, although I think I could cut it another 25%. I probably spend half of the average citizen now, mainly from avoiding too much meat, shopping in bulk and shopping cheap.
Alcohol, well $31 amounts to a couple of wine bottles once a month which is far from overspending I would say.

"Other" expenses includes several small things, like HBO, Netflix, cutting my hair every 4 months, dropping coins to beggars, but the majority of this cost is represented by me having to support my wife for some 6-12 months in 2015. She's not allowed to work while waiting for her family immigration visa... bummer. So those $400 a month is basically supporting another person in the household.

Savings rate of 43% is not good enough long term. But once my wife can work and my student loan is cleared by the end of the year, my savings rate will bounce up to 58%, maybe more.

locheachles
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:00 am

Re: ERE in the richest/expensivest country

Post by locheachles »

@ Viking

Oil will continue to be suppressed into the winter in my opinion, so I believe you will be able to get SDRL for even cheaper (sub $20) which, in my opinion, is crazy. There is also the fear of a cut dividend which is really inevitable for them in some context as they will need to ride out the pricing reset. I would set a limit for a price under USD 20 (say 19.7) and wait and see.

Of course, I am not a wizard, but I do work in O/G Finance and personally think there is plenty to be made off SDRL even in a short term bounce; the dividend provides an additional defense to weather short-term weakness (even if it is cut, as it would have around 20% yield at a sub-20 pricing). As oil prices stabilize to a more moderate pricing (probably around 85USD a barrel) SDRL should rise to a fairer 25-30 USD valuation.

Just my few cents on it, at least!

Also keep trying on that savings rate... Tough to support a non-working spouse, but maybe you can push it up to 50% in the interim period? Is there anything you can cast off? Good luck!

viking
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:35 am

Re: ERE in the richest/expensivest country

Post by viking »

Interesting. I will be following the stock closely and keeping what you wrote in mind. I'm very careful about investing in companies I don't fully understand and in SDRLs case I feel like I need to study them abit more before going in. That being said, I'm generally positive about dividend stocks and Fredriksen (one of the bigger shareholders) is known for creating good dividends.

Personally, my field of expertise is real estate. I've worked with real estate companies as an accountant and bookkeeper, I've invested in a small piece of property and I take an interest in the subject. My next stock purchase will probably be a big real estate company. Im just waiting for a good buying opportunity. And my paycheck lol.

locheachles
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:00 am

Re: ERE in the richest/expensivest country

Post by locheachles »

viking wrote:Interesting. I will be following the stock closely and keeping what you wrote in mind. I'm very careful about investing in companies I don't fully understand and in SDRLs case I feel like I need to study them abit more before going in. That being said, I'm generally positive about dividend stocks and Fredriksen (one of the bigger shareholders) is known for creating good dividends.

Personally, my field of expertise is real estate. I've worked with real estate companies as an accountant and bookkeeper, I've invested in a small piece of property and I take an interest in the subject. My next stock purchase will probably be a big real estate company. Im just waiting for a good buying opportunity. And my paycheck lol.
Well if you have any tips for some great REITs or real estate plays, I'm all ears :D Love being diversified and would like to hear your opinion... ADRs are fine as well btw so if they are Euro-centric not an issue.

viking
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:35 am

Re: ERE in the richest/expensivest country

Post by viking »

The past few days have been dark and cold here in Norway, and after work and intense physical trainings followed by dinner I've been lying like a zombie for 2-3 hours in the sofa watching TV before going to bed. I have been very tempted to buy chocolate on the way home from training as my body has craved for sugar. I have also been close to buying movies on demand. But I can proudly say that I haven't spent a dime the last week, except for $20 in necessary food expenses. I consider not spending money as the most important skill to succeed in ERE. It sounds easy, but its a challenge at times. I mean, the movie is just $5 right? I tell myself "no, if I do this even just once every month, it corresponds to $5 x 12 x 30 = $1.800 in savings to support this expense". That usually shuts me up and puts me back on track.

My best stock recommendation is OLT, a Norwegian real estate company.
http://www.olavthon.no/Topplenker/English1/
1 USD = 6,72 NOK.
The stock is priced at 125 NOK which I find fair, but I'm opportunistic and waiting for a discount hopefully around 110 NOK.
I must warn that the stock is not the most liquid one, but its a very solid company that pays dividend and the stock value shows a nice growth over the past years.

locheachles
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:00 am

Re: ERE in the richest/expensivest country

Post by locheachles »

viking wrote:The past few days have been dark and cold here in Norway, and after work and intense physical trainings followed by dinner I've been lying like a zombie for 2-3 hours in the sofa watching TV before going to bed. I have been very tempted to buy chocolate on the way home from training as my body has craved for sugar. I have also been close to buying movies on demand. But I can proudly say that I haven't spent a dime the last week, except for $20 in necessary food expenses. I consider not spending money as the most important skill to succeed in ERE. It sounds easy, but its a challenge at times. I mean, the movie is just $5 right? I tell myself "no, if I do this even just once every month, it corresponds to $5 x 12 x 30 = $1.800 in savings to support this expense". That usually shuts me up and puts me back on track.

My best stock recommendation is OLT, a Norwegian real estate company.
http://www.olavthon.no/Topplenker/English1/
1 USD = 6,72 NOK.
The stock is priced at 125 NOK which I find fair, but I'm opportunistic and waiting for a discount hopefully around 110 NOK.
I must warn that the stock is not the most liquid one, but its a very solid company that pays dividend and the stock value shows a nice growth over the past years.
Excellent thank you my friend... I shall look into seeing if I can get my hand on some shares. Good work on resisting the temptation to spend btw... As you say, that is really half the battle (breaking the spend <-> money association)

viking
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:35 am

Re: ERE in the richest/expensivest country

Post by viking »

Whats your take on SDRL now, locheachles?

viking
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:35 am

Re: ERE in the richest/expensivest country

Post by viking »

One thing I haven't mentioned here is that I got diabetes type 1 some six or seven years ago. The condition came slowly and I went for a long time without medicating it with insulin. My blood sugar was about 400% above healthy levels for about 2-3 years and I lost about 20 pounds during that time. The consequence of that is that I have some minor foot issues now (wounds heal slower, dry skin) and all the other usual things that comes with diabetes; checking my blood sugar several times a day and taking regular insulin shots. This is not supposed to be a medical testimony, but it goes without saying that my life length expectancy has taken a hit and I am aware that I have a higher risk of e.g. depressions, heart failure, kidney failure etc than a "normal" person. I am otherwise very healthy. I do boxing and ran a half marathon 2 months ago.

I think diabetes is an underlying reason for me wanting to get FI. I see ERE as a way of getting more from your life and time on the planet. I see it as complete freedom really, and freedom has always been one of my core values in life. Having to work feels like prison in comparison to my idea of freedom. If I had no obligation to work whatsoever I would probably be alot happier showing up for work. I would also show up for work less, and spend more time with meaningful things in life. Family, friends, my wife comes to mind. So does artwork, training, hikes and being with animals.

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