So are you saying increasing income 25% is not worth the minimal effort it would require and a few more hours of work per month on a sporadic basis?I have never worked an hourly job so my perspective may be different. But I am amazed that some people won't do it.
How to Be a Better Employee
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Spartan_Warrior
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@bbqguy: Admittedly my list was partly satirical (only partly). Of course "increasing income 25%" is worth "minimal effort", but those quantities are arbitrary. What about increasing income 3-5% (closer to the average raise) for significant effort (personally doing much of what you said and embodying that "living for my corporate overlords" mentality would not be minimal effort IMO).
Employers certainly want to foster the idea that you can raise your income by 25% with just "minimal extra effort". My point is that... well, that's often a massive lie. A carrot to compliment the stick of termination. Hard work is not always rewarded, and for many of us here with low expenses, short timeframes, and jobs we want to escape, the opportunity cost involved in putting in that extra effort really isn't worth the casino-like chance of a substantial raise. I know that is the case for me personally.
In today's economy, if you want a significant increase in income, you don't work harder for your employer. You change jobs.
Employers certainly want to foster the idea that you can raise your income by 25% with just "minimal extra effort". My point is that... well, that's often a massive lie. A carrot to compliment the stick of termination. Hard work is not always rewarded, and for many of us here with low expenses, short timeframes, and jobs we want to escape, the opportunity cost involved in putting in that extra effort really isn't worth the casino-like chance of a substantial raise. I know that is the case for me personally.
In today's economy, if you want a significant increase in income, you don't work harder for your employer. You change jobs.
Admittedly, I have been fortunate in my current career. I agree that my circumstances are different than many others.
Prior to my 18 year stint with my current employer I was self-employed off and on between a series of commission only jobs. I left a stable job to "take a chance" for something better. During those years of commission based pay, I endured periods of high increasing debt load. I'm sure I'd be more financially secure today if I had simply stayed put. Compared to many people that I know, I am quite secure even now.
I am not aware of any positions at my company that would only provide a 3-5% wage increase with a promotion. We don't always get merit increases (i.e. COLA raises), but when we get a promotion it's a pretty healthy increase.
There are passionate views on both sides of the debate. Most of those values are deep rooted and strongly held based on personal value systems and beliefs.
I'm not saying everyone should do what I chose to do, but for those that do choose that path there are things to be done which can help with advancement. I work in a white collar job, so maybe these techniques won't work in other types of work.
Prior to my 18 year stint with my current employer I was self-employed off and on between a series of commission only jobs. I left a stable job to "take a chance" for something better. During those years of commission based pay, I endured periods of high increasing debt load. I'm sure I'd be more financially secure today if I had simply stayed put. Compared to many people that I know, I am quite secure even now.
I am not aware of any positions at my company that would only provide a 3-5% wage increase with a promotion. We don't always get merit increases (i.e. COLA raises), but when we get a promotion it's a pretty healthy increase.
There are passionate views on both sides of the debate. Most of those values are deep rooted and strongly held based on personal value systems and beliefs.
I'm not saying everyone should do what I chose to do, but for those that do choose that path there are things to be done which can help with advancement. I work in a white collar job, so maybe these techniques won't work in other types of work.
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secretwealth
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I'm not sure why a vicious debate has spawned from a clearly tongue-in-cheek satire of the pitfalls of work life...
I do think bbqguy is right to point out the importance of office politics in working life. People who assume the private sector is efficient apparently has spent little time in meetings with middle managers...
I do think bbqguy is right to point out the importance of office politics in working life. People who assume the private sector is efficient apparently has spent little time in meetings with middle managers...
@bbqguy
My understanding of what you're trying to say is to maximize your employment time so that you can minimize your time employed. I'm with you on that, and to an extent that strategy worked for me.
I read a book years ago that really influence my attitude as an employee. It was titled "the Sin of Wages". It was about the entrepreneurial spirit that made America great in the first place. It was about acting more like an independent contractor than an entitled employee. It was about working for the big picture success, not just "doing time".
There is always a few disgruntled employees that don't get that. They are against "the Man". They are against anybody working for "the Man". They think if you're not biting the hand that feeds you, that you are a "suck-ass!". They've got it wrong, because it is business and numbers that makes decisions - ultimately.
I good friend told me long ago, "There are three ways to do things: the right way, the wrong way, and the company way. We get paid to do things the company way." And it was that simple...
My understanding of what you're trying to say is to maximize your employment time so that you can minimize your time employed. I'm with you on that, and to an extent that strategy worked for me.
I read a book years ago that really influence my attitude as an employee. It was titled "the Sin of Wages". It was about the entrepreneurial spirit that made America great in the first place. It was about acting more like an independent contractor than an entitled employee. It was about working for the big picture success, not just "doing time".
There is always a few disgruntled employees that don't get that. They are against "the Man". They are against anybody working for "the Man". They think if you're not biting the hand that feeds you, that you are a "suck-ass!". They've got it wrong, because it is business and numbers that makes decisions - ultimately.
I good friend told me long ago, "There are three ways to do things: the right way, the wrong way, and the company way. We get paid to do things the company way." And it was that simple...
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secretwealth
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"I think we can also say that affable incompetence is never rewarded. Unless you are related to the owner of the company of course."
Indeed! Eventually, incompetence will get punished, but the keyword is "eventually." Some people can ride the wave for years, even decades. The London Whale Trader and Bernie Madoff are great examples of people who survived several years hiding incompetence. I'm sure there are a lot of small fry we don't know about also milking their connections with slick talk.
Indeed! Eventually, incompetence will get punished, but the keyword is "eventually." Some people can ride the wave for years, even decades. The London Whale Trader and Bernie Madoff are great examples of people who survived several years hiding incompetence. I'm sure there are a lot of small fry we don't know about also milking their connections with slick talk.
The best advice I have read recently on this topic is in Robert Greene's book Mastery. He devotes a whole chapter to the idea of developing social intelligence about your workplace/career and acting accordingly.
The book recommends approaching your workplace in an objective and anthropological way. Study the people, what is valued there, what the culture is and was is expected and rewarded. Don't make the mistake of imposing your own values or judgments when you are not the boss. In fact, try to maintain a neutral countenance until you know the lay of the land.
Greene points out that this was one of the great secrets of Ben Franklin's success and references the parts of BF's Autobiography where he describes how he adapted himself to the printer's shop in London, where he first refused to contribute to the beer fund because he didn't drink, but then realized people were sabotaging his work because he made himself unpopular. He resolved after that to study the people around him as carefully as the substance of his work.
One of the contra-examples was Ignaz Semmelweis, who discovered that cleanliness and sterilization were key to successful medicine, but managed to piss so many people off that even his supporters couldn't stand him personally and he died a broken man.
Greene identifies four broad recommendations: Speak through your work, craft the appropriate persona, see yourself as others see you, and suffer fools gladly. I think you'll find that most of the laundry list items fit under one of these categories.
He also recommends minimizing your exposure and damage caused by people who display one or more of the "Seven Deadly Realities": Envy, Conformism, Rigidity, Self-obsessiveness, Laziness, Flightiness, and Passive Aggression.
Well worth reading if you have not read it yet. Lots of other good stuff in that book.
The book recommends approaching your workplace in an objective and anthropological way. Study the people, what is valued there, what the culture is and was is expected and rewarded. Don't make the mistake of imposing your own values or judgments when you are not the boss. In fact, try to maintain a neutral countenance until you know the lay of the land.
Greene points out that this was one of the great secrets of Ben Franklin's success and references the parts of BF's Autobiography where he describes how he adapted himself to the printer's shop in London, where he first refused to contribute to the beer fund because he didn't drink, but then realized people were sabotaging his work because he made himself unpopular. He resolved after that to study the people around him as carefully as the substance of his work.
One of the contra-examples was Ignaz Semmelweis, who discovered that cleanliness and sterilization were key to successful medicine, but managed to piss so many people off that even his supporters couldn't stand him personally and he died a broken man.
Greene identifies four broad recommendations: Speak through your work, craft the appropriate persona, see yourself as others see you, and suffer fools gladly. I think you'll find that most of the laundry list items fit under one of these categories.
He also recommends minimizing your exposure and damage caused by people who display one or more of the "Seven Deadly Realities": Envy, Conformism, Rigidity, Self-obsessiveness, Laziness, Flightiness, and Passive Aggression.
Well worth reading if you have not read it yet. Lots of other good stuff in that book.
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secretwealth
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I'm currently a low-level loser in the restaurant business and as long as I do the bare minimum (even doing a little less is fine where I work), I can sail along forever. I have no intentions of getting promoted, but if I wanted to, all I'd have to do ask and get trained for promotion. However, becoming a manager would cause my income to drop, as I wouldn't be making any tips. To maximize my income via tips, I have to concentrate on finding ways to induce the production of happy brain neurotransmitters in customers' brains. So it's more vital for me to "go the extra mile within reason and with discretion" with customers but not with co-workers.
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dot_com_vet
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"In today's economy, if you want a significant increase in income, you don't work harder for your employer. You change jobs."
It typically takes five years to vest in a pension and three years in a 401k. You have to job hop intelligently, otherwise you're potentially leaving big money on the table. I know people that have switched jobs to make more money, that actually took a nice haircut.
This is tax advantaged cash that can make up the top rungs of your ERE plan.
It typically takes five years to vest in a pension and three years in a 401k. You have to job hop intelligently, otherwise you're potentially leaving big money on the table. I know people that have switched jobs to make more money, that actually took a nice haircut.
This is tax advantaged cash that can make up the top rungs of your ERE plan.
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jacob
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Assume a typical 3% employer contribution on a 401k. Maxing out at 17k, that's $510/year, so that's only leaving a maximum of $1500, albeit tax deferred on the table. Job-hops can exceed that for sure.
A bigger downside is only getting to join the tax-deferred plans "next year".
On the flipside, many employers only offer really bad mutual funds as part of their retirement plans. Better than nothing, but sometimes it almost makes sense to roll into an IRA ASAP.
Golden handcuffs ...
A bigger downside is only getting to join the tax-deferred plans "next year".
On the flipside, many employers only offer really bad mutual funds as part of their retirement plans. Better than nothing, but sometimes it almost makes sense to roll into an IRA ASAP.
Golden handcuffs ...
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dot_com_vet
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I'll try to make a few points here...
1 - Good EMPLOYEE vs good WORKER... There is a difference between being good at the work you do and being a good employee. Most of the original list are about being a good employee. Most workplaces have a few people that are excellent technically or very good at their jobs, but that cause problems which are a pain in the ass to deal with.
2 - Politics... As you get promotions, your 'work' transitions from doing things yourself to leading and influencing others. The higher you go, the more your performance depends on many of the things listed (plus politics and other things)
For myself, I've gotten a few promotions and I am now in a position where I do not want to move up a level. I currently spend about half of my time doing things myself, and the rest in meetings or talking to other people (often asking/telling/convincing them what to do, giving advice, etc..). Although I have that 50/50 time split, success in my position depend much more on the people/meeting part of my job. If I get a promotion, the people/meeting time goes up, and the importance as well. Personally I have more fun during the solo work time.
Another factor for me at the moment is that if I get a promotion, (in addition to the above) I'd have to either start traveling a lot (which would help reduce expenses but I think I'd hate it) or I would have responsibility for a lot more problems than I currently do. I'm pretty sure how much of a raise I would get, and I'm damn sure it wouldn't be worth the money.
I still do well at work and specifically try to do many items on the list (certainly not all of them). Now that I'm not trying to get promoted, It allows me to:
- Work fewer hours than I would have.
- Be more comfortable saying no
- Not worry as much about problems or conflicts.
It's probably a bit like having fuck you money. You sort of get into your Shangri-La (as much as a job you want to quit can be!) and its easier / less stressful. The thing that concerns me more about missing out on money is missing out on good practice at making small talk and bullshitting people. (making friends/allies quickly.. influencing quickly.. manipulating people.. getting them to tell you what they want... etc.. - all of which are nice to be good at)
1 - Good EMPLOYEE vs good WORKER... There is a difference between being good at the work you do and being a good employee. Most of the original list are about being a good employee. Most workplaces have a few people that are excellent technically or very good at their jobs, but that cause problems which are a pain in the ass to deal with.
2 - Politics... As you get promotions, your 'work' transitions from doing things yourself to leading and influencing others. The higher you go, the more your performance depends on many of the things listed (plus politics and other things)
For myself, I've gotten a few promotions and I am now in a position where I do not want to move up a level. I currently spend about half of my time doing things myself, and the rest in meetings or talking to other people (often asking/telling/convincing them what to do, giving advice, etc..). Although I have that 50/50 time split, success in my position depend much more on the people/meeting part of my job. If I get a promotion, the people/meeting time goes up, and the importance as well. Personally I have more fun during the solo work time.
Another factor for me at the moment is that if I get a promotion, (in addition to the above) I'd have to either start traveling a lot (which would help reduce expenses but I think I'd hate it) or I would have responsibility for a lot more problems than I currently do. I'm pretty sure how much of a raise I would get, and I'm damn sure it wouldn't be worth the money.
I still do well at work and specifically try to do many items on the list (certainly not all of them). Now that I'm not trying to get promoted, It allows me to:
- Work fewer hours than I would have.
- Be more comfortable saying no
- Not worry as much about problems or conflicts.
It's probably a bit like having fuck you money. You sort of get into your Shangri-La (as much as a job you want to quit can be!) and its easier / less stressful. The thing that concerns me more about missing out on money is missing out on good practice at making small talk and bullshitting people. (making friends/allies quickly.. influencing quickly.. manipulating people.. getting them to tell you what they want... etc.. - all of which are nice to be good at)
@Spartan_Warrior: Satirical or not, your list seems right on target.
I have really been trying to work on this one recently: "Develop an identity outside of work. You are not your job." It has been far more difficult than I would have thought before actually joining the workforce. How do you achieve this when socialization only occurs with coworkers and family?
I have really been trying to work on this one recently: "Develop an identity outside of work. You are not your job." It has been far more difficult than I would have thought before actually joining the workforce. How do you achieve this when socialization only occurs with coworkers and family?
Eh, IMO there are first-, second-, and third-order arguments both for and against expending energy on being a "better employee." It's a nuanced issue and it's possible to do the right thing for wrong reasons and vice versa.
At the level of bald pecuniary self interest, it is true that playing the game and working the system a little can improve the cost/benefit proposition of a job. And also further your political standing within the organization which has a snowball effect on future cost/benefit improvements. E.g. it may be true that
■Dress the part
is rational purely because the ROI on a professional wardrobe is greater than the risk-free interest rate.
Personally I have a sense of integrity, and per the Golden Rule feel a certain duty to avoid creating unnecessary problems for my peers, which dictate a baseline level of professionalism, for lack of a better word. So I can't disagree with
■Be prepared
■Be honest
■Be realistic
Really that kind of stuff applies to all aspects of life.
However IMO a lot of this kind of advice is informed by the asymmetric power dynamic that exists in the corporate workplace. For example
■Be flexible
is a notorious euphemism for silently accepting degradations in wages, benefits, or working conditions. Management perpetuates them as norms in order to squelch worker empowerment --- switching jobs, union activity, citing FU money, or general outspokenness. I find this objectionable both in principle and as someone interested in FI.
At the level of bald pecuniary self interest, it is true that playing the game and working the system a little can improve the cost/benefit proposition of a job. And also further your political standing within the organization which has a snowball effect on future cost/benefit improvements. E.g. it may be true that
■Dress the part
is rational purely because the ROI on a professional wardrobe is greater than the risk-free interest rate.
Personally I have a sense of integrity, and per the Golden Rule feel a certain duty to avoid creating unnecessary problems for my peers, which dictate a baseline level of professionalism, for lack of a better word. So I can't disagree with
■Be prepared
■Be honest
■Be realistic
Really that kind of stuff applies to all aspects of life.
However IMO a lot of this kind of advice is informed by the asymmetric power dynamic that exists in the corporate workplace. For example
■Be flexible
is a notorious euphemism for silently accepting degradations in wages, benefits, or working conditions. Management perpetuates them as norms in order to squelch worker empowerment --- switching jobs, union activity, citing FU money, or general outspokenness. I find this objectionable both in principle and as someone interested in FI.
"A bigger downside is only getting to join the tax-deferred plans "next year"."
This was what happened to me during my first 5-6 years of working. The Boomers had decided their pensions were expensive enough, so they cut the pensions. Unfortunately, they cut way too far and implemented a year wait for shitty 401k retirement vehicles, with expensive mutual funds and slow vesting matches.
This was what happened to me during my first 5-6 years of working. The Boomers had decided their pensions were expensive enough, so they cut the pensions. Unfortunately, they cut way too far and implemented a year wait for shitty 401k retirement vehicles, with expensive mutual funds and slow vesting matches.