What I Spend

[Scott 2]

Thanks, I know you've gone well beyond where I'm heading. It's one of those things where you start trying, then realize how much more impressive those reaching the peak are. Holding significant muscle at single digit body fat percentages is an achievement. I don't think I have a frame for what that takes, even now.


I'm targeting 0.5% per week, to avoid backing myself into a metabolic corner. Given my inability to offer a 10 of 10 effort, I think a more aggressive deficit would strip away muscle. Same thing with allowing space for a mesocycle off.

The Frankenfoods are offering a novelty benefit near term. That's an experience in itself. Protein ice cream with allulose... My wife convinced me to have 1 serving instead of the pint, which probably saved my digestion. The after taste was not good. Dunno that it's a keeper. Aldi's hummus protein wrap on the other hand - awesome all around.

I'm expecting a week or two of sorting new food options, then heading into autopilot. Since I'm eating less, it largely offsets the premium pricing. I've always liked Aldi's take and bake cauliflower pizza, but only bought it when marked down. Now maybe the $8 will feel worth it. Carmel rice cakes, protein candy bars, dark chocolate freeze dried fruit, protein granola. There's still plenty of space for bullshit.


Part of my interest here, was an offhand comment by Mike Isratel about a1c measurements. I guess there's a bottom end of the test scale, and you can min it out. He implied that will happen being lean and centering carbs around training.

His content suggests he's guzzling Gatorade and boxes of cereal, so that claim seems wild to me. I want to attribute it to his PEDs. But, instead of assuming I know, I'm trying the thing. I'm curious to see where my number goes.

[Lemur]

Hey Scott - We're in the same boat.

I am 19-20% bf also (just coming off a short-term 6 week bulk) and I am also aiming to get down in the 10-12% range. Been a few years since I've seen my abs. I'm down 4.30lbs over 3 weeks. Strict calorie deficit target, higher protein, weight lifting 2x a week (I decreased the volume but kept the intensity), plus lots of walking, and most importantly staying consistent. Most concerns over muscle loss and hormonal problems usually occurs for those aiming less than 10%-12% bf (or if the calorie deficit is too aggressive) so I wouldn't be too concerned about that. Seems you're on the right path.

Yes the good news is this stuff does get like auto-pilot after the first week or 2. Once you get past that initial stage..its fairly smooth sailing. Expect the occassional hunger pang here and there but usually some water, distract yourself with something to do, and it normally goes away. Good Luck. Will follow along.

[Scott 2]

@lemur - cool to we're heading in similar directions, though you are going faster. I have not lowered training volume. The fact you're doing this on 2x per week makes me wonder if I'll need to. I spend a lot of time moving per week:

4 days lifting - 25-30 work sets per, plus 30 minutes zone 2
3 days active rest - either yoga class, 5 mile walk, or 10 mile bike

Recovery has been ok and this volume is what my brain prefers. But I'll watching for signs of overreaching. It's like 12 hours of weekly movement.


At this point I'm actively taking myself out of a dexa scan. I have $75, it's only a 30 minute drive. I need to wait for when a boost of novelty is required. But I am very curious. They do v02 max testing as well.

[2Birds1Stone]

That's a rather high amount of volume for lifting. How many working sets per body part per week are you doing?

[Lemur]

+1 @2Birds1Stone

Trying to maintain my volume while attempting a cut last year is very likely what led to my RDL injury. A hard lesson was learned.

@Scott 2

I cut my volume by about half of what I was doing on my short-term bulk. I'm hitting very low volume right now...8-10 sets per muscle group per week but high intensity (sets taken to failure in the 6-12 rep range). Due to this and other reasons (eating calories slightly above my estimated BMR + creating most of my calorie deficit through lots of walking), I've never felt this good on a cut before. Yesterday I even hit PRs on Chest Press, Lat Pulldown, and Militay Press. I was pleasantly surprised.

Very curious about your Dexa Scan too! I've read many stories over the years that most people overestimate their actual bodyfat using the mirror and get some sticker shock after the Dexas. Wouldn't be too surprised if your actual bf is around 24-25%.

[jacob]

Shouldn't you guys be comparing volume by total pounds lifted and not by number of "sets"?!

weight volume = sum (reps/set)*set*weight/rep

[Lemur]

@Jacob

Depends. Very advanced lifters will need to take volume load (the formula you posted) into more consideration as progression slows to a halt and systematic fatigue becomes a real issue from simply being too strong. There are 2 definitions and bodybuilders for pratical purposes use the second one more often (number of hard sets per muscle group per week) https://outlift.com/hypertrophy-training-volume/ .

I think powerlifters use the first definition because strength is the primary goal and not hypertrophy. And they often use careful planning to manage fatigue over-time to hit PRs.

Naturally weight volume would increase as someone gets stronger. But the formula you posted is specific to volume load. For practical purposes, bodybuilders think in in terms of number of hard sets because they're aiming for what are called "effective reps" on each set. These are the grindy hard reps that are pushed and taken to failure or very close to failure and are most useful for stimulating muscular hypertrophy (powerlifters do not train in this way and usually ramp up over many weeks before taking things to failure in peak weeks to hit personal weight records). It is usually recommended that 10-20 hard sets per muscle group sets per week is sufficient for hypertrophy. There is a neat graph out there somewhere I wish I could find that shows a clear diminishing return after the 6th hard set in a single muscle from a single workout. Regardless, because recovery is slower in those "cutting" in a caloric deficit, and intensity needs to be maintained to retain muscle mass, then what is usually recommended is to aim near the lower end of the optimal volume range.

So bb'ers think in terms of "total number of hard sets per muscle” than “sets x reps x load" because the former is more useful for goals of stimulating hypertrophy as opposed to managing fatigue for long-term strength gains. This article goes into further details:

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/the-n ... ng-volume/

[2Birds1Stone]

Yea, there's just too much nuance to use the exact "weight volume = sum (reps/set)*set*weight/rep" formula with any consistency.

Since we're varying between barbells, dumbbells, plate loaded machines, pin loaded machines, cables (with varying numbers of pulleys) etc, etc....

Many machines have different resistance profiles, people don't typically standardize their form well enough to even define an exact "rep" (range of motion, pause vs no pause, how much body english or cheating is used) etc etc.

So we typically use number of hard sets, for hypertrophy purposes typically defined as 6-20 reps @ either a high rate of perceived exertion or using the "reps in reserve" (proximity to failure) method. But it's not perfect regardless, and exercise science is still in its infancy compared to many other areas of science.

[Stasher]

Shouldn't you guys be comparing volume by total pounds lifted and not by number of "sets"?!

weight volume = sum (reps/set)*set*weight/rep

This is why I always loved using the Wendler 5/3/1 system when I was competing as I did big compound lifts getting a great workout, moved a lot of weight with few reps and was out of the gym in 30 minutes. I have better things to do than sit in a gym for 2 hours.

[Scott 2]

@2b1s - I'm generally lower on the 10-20 sets per body part range. Some smaller stuff inflates my count. I got 14 sets programmed for grip, 6 for abs, 4 for calves. I do lateral raises to fatigue my medial delts before pressing overhead.

Since I'm newer to lifting like a bodybuilder, and bad at trying, I tend to favor 4 sets per exercise. There's a lot of relearning happening. I started using squat shoes last week, versa Gripps last month, etc. I don't think my absolute intensity is very high.

Dropping a set off most my exercises may be prudent though. This is week 1 of my current meso, starting at 3 RIR. The effects of eating differently are still unfolding. I'm targeting a 5 to 6 week buildup, reaching 1 or maybe 0.5 RIR. Then a deload week and repeat.


@lemur - That's a great start to your program. It sounds like you're on a more aggressive deficit than me, and can bring much greater intensity to the gym.

I'd be surprised if a dexa showed a higher score, but I think that would be the best case scenario. Going from 25-20 has to be easier than 20-15.


@jacob - Counting work sets per body part, coupled with reps in reserve (RIR), is the best tool I've found for managing an individual's volume. Poundage falls apart as exercises and rep ranges vary. It's not good at accommodating autoregulation either. Yesterday's 3 RIR might be today's 1 RIR. My 1 RIR effort might be your 3 RIR. Keeping everything relative solves a lot of progression questions.


@stasher - I ran 531 when I was working. For years. It's a great plan. I really like the percentage based programming, as well as the option to take extra reps on the last hard set. The joker sets concept also worked well for me. Relegating all decision making to the template is awesome. It was the perfect fit for my career years. So time efficient.

My joints prefer to avoid heavy barbell compounds these days. The absolute stimulus of my exercises is lower, which demands more time, but so is the systemic fatigue. Since it means I get to continue lifting, I'm happy to make the trade. Gym time also quells my anxiety. I'm not mad about more hours there.

[Western Red Cedar]

Protein ice cream with allulose... My wife convinced me to have 1 serving instead of the pint, which probably saved my digestion. The after taste was not good. Dunno that it's a keeper.

Have you thought about making your own protein ice cream? It might be worth it if ice cream is one of the major indulgences/vices. More control over the ingredients and ability to adjust macros based on your preferences.

[Scott 2]

Definitely thought about it. YouTube videos had me eying the ninja creami, before I ever tried any protein ice cream. I figured sampling commercial products would be a reasonable first step. Do I even like "healthy" ice cream? Enough to acquire and store a special purpose small appliance?

I haven't dug into the halo top yet. So that verdict is still pending. The protein pint didn't cut it. The ice cream is competing against protein smoothies and greek yogurt parfaits. Also a strategy of Ben and Jerry's post training, supported by poverty macros for breakfast and dinner.

This week has brought a lot of new foods into the house. I hyper fixated on "macro friendly vegetarian foods from Aldi." Several hours online, three visits to the store. My pantry and fridge are overflowing. Aldi's small enough that one can consider _every_ option. So I did.

With today's trip, it feels like the fixation has been satisfied. I'll try my new foods over the next week or two, then probably settle into a routine eating the same thing every day.

[2Birds1Stone]

If I were living somewhere permanently the Ninja Creami would be at the top of my list for appliances to try......you can always resell it for 50-75% of what you paid for it since they are still very popular and new.

Some of the recipes I've seen on YT really do sound amazing......though it wouldn't serve me while aggressively cutting. I try to keep my meals bland/less palatable as the diet progresses because it impacts food focus/fixation way less to have a meal of chicken and vegetables on the horizon than a pint of Cosmic Brownie Ice Cream you hacked with the NC.

[Scott 2]

Last night I recognized 3 people who've taken lifting further than me, have suggested I'm using too much volume. I dropped a work set off each exercise in my program. I also swapped my deficit RDLs for a hip thrust and leg curl.

Appreciate the input. I'm not great at receiving it immediately, but I am listening. The possible down side of overdoing is much higher than any benefit of some extra sets.


@2b1s - It's quite possible I try a ninja creami. Cost isn't a consideration. More resisting my impulse to buy and store all the things, when first I need to use the basics.

Often it's a lack of food drive that leads me to the hyper palatables. Especially in the past year with my jaw surgery and braces. Eating can look very unappealing. But I will follow through on treats. Easy texture, consistent flavor, zero prep. Hence the infatuation with Aldi's macro friendly convenience foods.