Tap water safety

[zbigi]

So there's this new study (from March 2024, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 9724000676) which shows that drinking chlorinated water significantly changes gut bacteria composition in mice - specifically, it makes it much less varied. See this chart:


Does anyone have any strategies developed for dealing with chlorine in tap water?

[Jean]

Doesn't boiling it evaporates the chlorine?
I think most of it even evaporates at ambiant.

[zbigi]

Doesn't boiling it evaporates the chlorine?

From what I've read, you'd need to boil the water for 15-20 minutes to get rid of chlorine. This is from reddit and quora though, so may or may not be true.

[ertyu]

Most middle class+ households in the US have water filters installed at their sink. These claim to filter out chlorine to a large extent.

[zbigi]

Nice, I was not aware of that! I've been using a water filer (in a jug) myself for years, I think I'll send filtered water to a lab to see how much chlorine is in the water after filtering. The test is just 45 PLN (~$12).

[Scott 2]

If I'm understanding the article correctly, the amount of chlorine they tested with is approximately 4ppm.

My city publishes an annual water quality report. Chlorine tests at 1 to 1.1 ppm.

Personally - when I'm looking for factors to optimize against, the municipal water supply is extremely low on my list. Within the US, areas like Flint made the news, because they are the exception. Water sanitation is an extremely well understood problem.

[Jean]

If you are really concerned about tap water quality, move to switzerland. Half of municipalities don't even need to treat their water source at all.
I imagine Norway is in a similar situation.

[jacob]

So there's this new study (from March 2024, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 9724000676) which shows that drinking chlorinated water significantly changes gut bacteria composition in mice - specifically, it makes it much less varied.

Humans better not forget diseases like cholera, typhoid, crypto, or other waterborne diseases that led to public health implementations like chlorinated water in the first place. It only takes a couple of generations to forget how shitty (literally!!) the past was before we start ignoring it and proceed to free-ride on past accomplishments, and nitpicking the side-effects of solutions to otherwise BIG problems. Also see flouride.

Fortunately, individual choice for these diseases now remains available for free or a low cost.
Filter your water. ($100 Berkey filter)
Use flourinated toothpaste. ($2 tube)
Vaccine shots ($0-50ish)

IOW, the alternative is far worse. It's just that most people have now forgotten how bad things used to be.

[Ego]

Thanks for posting the study. It caused me to look at how well my water filter removes chlorine and chloramine.

We use a Brita pitcher filter. It turns out, they are designed to remove the smell and taste of chlorine to NSF/ANSI Standard 42 for the aesthetics of water. It does not filter chloramine and does not eliminate chlorine or fluoride. I did not know this!

My city uses chlorine (up to 4ppm), chloramine and fluoride. Gut health is super important to me and I do not like the fact that I am drinking these. I am going to start looking for a better filter or, better yet, a distiller. I sold a countertop model a few years ago and regret it.

[zbigi]

Personally - when I'm looking for factors to optimize against, the municipal water supply is extremely low on my list. Within the US, areas like Flint made the news, because they are the exception. Water sanitation is an extremely well understood problem.

I'd say everyone assumed it was a well understood problem until year 2024, when (to my understanding) first study that showed adverse effects of chlorine, in amount typical for tap water, was published. Now we'll have to wait for other studies to confirm it, and for studies on humans.

IOW, the alternative is far worse. It's just that most people have now forgotten how bad things used to be.

Not neccessarily. The alternative may be to, for example, buy bottled watter, or bring it yourself from an regularly tested, non-chlorinated deep well. The latter was fairly popular in Poland (perhaps still is amongst older people) - people were reluctant to drink tap water, and also to pay from bottled water, so they made trips to free public wells where water from underground aquifers (not requiring chlorine treatment) was available. Another alternative is of course to use filter, as you an @ertyu mentioned.

[rube]

I am going to start looking for a better filter or, better yet, a distiller.

But distilled water lacks minerals and doesn't taste nice imo. Maybe just a better filter?

[Ego]

But distilled water lacks minerals and doesn't taste nice imo. Maybe just a better filter?

A reverse osmosis filter requires installation and expensive consumables, so not very attractive for me. I generally find the Brita elements for $1 each at the swap meet. A countertop distiller uses electric, which is free for me.

[Scott 2]

I think the consumables in a reverse osmosis system replace necessary minerals. Switching to distilled water creates a similar need.

I wonder if those who are concerned could get their gut biota tested? Confirm presence of a problem, before pursuing a solution?

[jacob]

Not neccessarily. The alternative may be to, for example, buy bottled watter, or bring it yourself from an regularly tested, non-chlorinated deep well. The latter was fairly popular in Poland (perhaps still is amongst older people) - people were reluctant to drink tap water, and also to pay from bottled water, so they made trips to free public wells where water from underground aquifers (not requiring chlorine treatment) was available. Another alternative is of course to use filter, as you an @ertyu mentioned.

Au contraire. This might be a US thing, but bottled water here is less tested than tap water. IOW, it's possible to sell all kinds of water, which people will happily pay extra for beyond the safety limits, as long as it's marketed and delivered in a plastic bottle, because humans gotta human. Ditto, if people can pick it up themselves from a "natural" spring or pond which may contain all kinds of heavy metal "fun".

In any case, there are fortunately alternatives for those who don't want to risk the good old days of the pre-1920s. Cheaper too! So it doesn't even have to become a problem unless one wants to.

See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Milw ... s_outbreak for what can go wrong.

[Ego]

I wonder if those who are concerned could get their gut biota tested? Confirm presence of a problem, before pursuing a solution?

Well, we know that alcohol consumption messes with gut microbiome so it is logical that chlorine (and similar) consumption would do the same. The question is whether the tiny amounts cause problems. The study suggests that it might. It seems prudent to avoid drinking bleach if possible. That's what I believed I was doing by filtering my water, but I learned that my filter only eliminates the taste and smell of chlorine, not the chlorine itself, nor the other disinfectants. So, for me, that is a problem.

[7Wannabe5]

Avoiding tap water is for rookies. If you really want to challenge your immune system, I suggest volunteering to teach disadvantaged pre-school children. A few rounds of pink eye, a couple croupy coughs, and a few weeks with your face half-paralyzed from Bell's Palsy, and your gut microbiome will soon resemble that of the most youthful members of Gen Alpha. Extra Credit: Do not call in sick yourself the day after half the class has to change into their emergency pants due to diarrhea.

[OTCW]

4 ppm is the upper limt of what EPA allows in tap water. Most treatment plants put out water at 2 to 2.5 ppm and it immediately starts degrading as it flows through the pipes to the consumers. 0.2 ppm is the EPA lower limit for what reaches them.

4 ppm gets complaints ala 'my water tastes like bleach/a pool/etc' and causes major issues with the formation of harmful (and strictly regulated) disinfection byproducts.

That said, 4ppm in your home doesn't really exist for the most part in the US.

Aeration is a common and extremely effective dechlorination method at large scale. Not sure how to implement it at the consumer scale, but even an aerated faucet attachment would help. Get one with an integrated chlorine filter if you want:

https://www.danco.com/product/1-5-gpm-d ... in-chrome/

[Sclass]

I was shocked at how quickly municipal water killed my koi fish. I accidentally left the water running while refilling the pond and when I returned hours later the fish were half dead floating around on the water. The level was overflowing. Apparently the water can be added small amounts at a time but if you replace the entire volume you kill the fish.

After the catastrophe I was told by the pet shop that vitamin C crystals neutralized chloramine. I forgot the number of spoonfuls per gallon. This happened many years ago. The scaling was something like a pinch in a glass of water neutralized it.

Now I just buy reverse osmosis water from this water filtering shop in a mini mall. I fill five gallon glass carboys. They lasts weeks. The water tastes great. And it’s cheap. I ran the numbers and it was cheaper to fill the jugs than to install an maintain an under sink RO system.

These places are always in the bad neighborhoods. You find them in mini malls with check cashing, auto parts stores and laundromats. It’s fun slumming in line with the commoner folk there. I can get fresh tortillas in the same plaza.

My tap water smells a bit like a public pool. I alternate between water shop water and tap. I know a lot of old people who drink it regularly. It hasn’t killed them. It is frightening that there may be a connection between colon cancer and gut biome. My friends who got colon cancer were smokers and drunks who also happened to drink tap water. Who knows.

[jacob]

I was shocked at how quickly municipal water killed my koi fish. I accidentally left the water running while refilling the pond and when I returned hours later the fish were half dead floating around on the water. The level was overflowing. Apparently the water can be added small amounts at a time but if you replace the entire volume you kill the fish.

Not necessarily a chlorine issue. It could also be the sudden shift in temperature or any other component (particularly oxygen saturation). Imagine if your 20 degrees C comprised of 75% nitrogen, 20% oxygen, 5% other (or whatever it is) breathing atmosphere was quickly replaced by 5C, 85% nitrogen, 15% oxygen, and 0% other ... that'd deck most humans too w/o any component necessarily being poisonous. (The dose is the poison!)

IIRC, the standard rule for aquariums is only to replace 10-20% of the water at a time. Same reason why new fish are slowly acclimatized by mixing in aquarium water with the transport water...

[Tyler9000]

A reverse osmosis filter requires installation and expensive consumables, so not very attractive for me. I generally find the Brita elements for $1 each at the swap meet. A countertop distiller uses electric, which is free for me.

We purchased a countertop reverse osmosis system this year (no installation required). Honestly, it's super handy and the water tastes great. While it's not the cheapest solution because of the consumables, we use it enough and water is such a baseline quality of life thing that we decided it was worth it. No regrets.