Over 60 ERE Biomarker and Related Metrics 5 Year Competition

[chenda]

Interesting. It's possible of course Mr Mutumbo was referring to sexting, for which he was on stronger grammatical ground methinks.

[Henry]

Mr. Mutumbo and I were born the same year, so pre-sexting. It's why when I walked into frat parties I would yell "Who wants to fuck Henry." But then again, I was an English major so correct grammar was a priority.

[7Wannabe5]

I know we've had this discussion before, but I don't remember the result. If the male ratio of deadlift to overhead press is 1.5 to 1.25 (not very different), but the female ratio of deadlift to overhead press is 3 to 1, how would Jacob's recommended standard of 5000 lbs from ground to overhead in 10 minutes for 175 lb man be adjusted to a 5 minutes of deadlift and 5 minutes of overhead press for a female given overall female to male strength ratio of .75? Would lifting 60 lbs. from ground to the waist 100X in 5 minutes followed by lifting 20 lbs. from chest to overhead press 100X in 5 minutes be roughly the equivalent?

According to my brief research Novice Level Powerlifting for Females is 135 lb. Deadlift and 45 lb. Overhead Press and Big Girl (look good at corporate gym) Level is 275 lb. Deadlift and 135 lb. Overhead Press, if this might help with conversion.

Using just the 14 lb. bar I now own and (obviously) my own body-weight down to squat, my recovering from respiratory virus lungs are clearly the limiting factor, so I am going to throw down for some plates. Lifting the 14 lb. bar overhead with just one arm is also quite easy, so for powerlifting, I would guess I could probably do the Novice level already. A former athlete I dated whose first wife was a female body-builder (their son was a giant who played for the NFL)told me that I was naturally thick enough to be a female body-builder/weight-lifter if I wanted to train, so I think that should be my geriatric sport of choice. Also, it would offer me the most leeway for continued cookie consumption. Also, I like the power-lifter/book-nerd stereotypical lifestyle hard-contrast. Also, my silly mother is so happy that she is finally losing weight in her old age, while she keeps getting weaker and weaker. Who cares if you can finally get back into a size 8 dress if you can't even lift your arms well enough to put them through the sleeves?!?!

[jacob]

I know we've had this discussion before, but I don't remember the result. If the male ratio of deadlift to overhead press is 1.5 to 1.25 (not very different), but the female ratio of deadlift to overhead press is 3 to 1, how would Jacob's recommended standard of 5000 lbs from ground to overhead in 10 minutes for 175 lb man be adjusted to a 5 minutes of deadlift and 5 minutes of overhead press for a female given overall female to male strength ratio of .75? Would lifting 60 lbs. from ground to the waist 100X in 5 minutes followed by lifting 20 lbs. from chest to overhead press 100X in 5 minutes be roughly the equivalent?

Your male ratio is way off. It's more like 1:2-2.5.

In any case, your 1RPM max does not apply to this standard because the standard is not about strength. It's about work capacity (power over time). Specifically, E=sum(mg delta h) over 10 minutes. If you divide by 360seconds, this will also give you your wattage. Dividing your wattage by your weight says a lot about what your VO2max would be. Males have higher numbers than females by 10-30% (so lets call it 25%) simply from having more muscle mass per bodyweight.

Now that you see the physical origin of what you're calculating, it should be clear how to gauge delta h based on how far the weight moves relative to "from ground to overhead". If you take your 14lbs bar and move it as many times from your ankles to locked out and down again in 10 minutes, do the multiplication and you got your number. Then adjust for gender and bodymass. I don't know if switching exercises around mid-set changes anything. When I tested out different workouts, I always used the same compound movement all the way through. You can try a bunch of different movements. Hopefully the variation is small lest you pick something ridiculous like feather weighted biceps curls.

Given the 10 mins, it will not be the lack of strength that will be your limiter.

PS: I'm not entirely sure what kind of barbell exercise would conveniently move the weight from the ground to waist level?! A deadlift would at best be around 1/4 of the "overhead distance". Same with regular squats to parallel.

[theanimal]

PS: I'm not entirely sure what kind of barbell exercise would conveniently move the weight from the ground to waist level?! A deadlift would at best be around 1/4 of the "overhead distance". Same with regular squats to parallel.

Are you thinking of a "clean"? The way to incorporate overhead would then be "clean & press".

[jacob]

Are you thinking of a "clean"? The way to incorporate overhead would then be "clean & press".

I did all my "runs" with either clean&push press (2x53lbs KB) or the clubbell "swipe" (2x25lbs). W/o having tried it, I think splitting it into 5mins of cleans followed by 5mins of PPs would waste the muscles much faster and result in a lower score.

[7Wannabe5]

your 1RPM max does not apply to this standard because the standard is not about strength. It's about work capacity

Yeah, I get that, but isn't it the case that your strength does somewhat determine the limits to the different ways you can exhibit the work capacity as in the examples you gave previously in that section of the book. For example, if the goal was to lift 4000 lbs overhead in 10 minutes, and I was very strong, I could maybe lift 200 lbs. overhead 20X in 10 minutes rather than 20 lbs overhead 200X in 10 minutes. And, I was assuming that since I would be moving faster, more like I was running, with the second variation, it might be relatively more challenging to lung capacity? But, maybe not.

Anyways, the reason I was considering movement to waist is that is how you pick a heavy child up and carry them around which is something I have had to do recently. Also, one of my emergency situation goals might be the ability to lift up an unconscious approximately 220 lb. man and hike out of the woods for some distance. Since a "Big Girl" can theoretically squat or deadlift 225 lbs. this seems remotely do-able for me, and also has the benefit of being interesting and hilarious for me to visualize myself doing at age 65. Whereas, me running kind of fast on a treadmill (yawn, boring.)

[jacob]

Yeah, I get that, but isn't it the case that your strength does somewhat determine the limits to the different ways you can exhibit the work capacity as in the examples you gave previously in that section of the book. For example, if the goal was to lift 4000 lbs overhead in 10 minutes, and I was very strong, I could maybe lift 200 lbs. overhead 20X in 10 minutes rather than 20 lbs overhead 200X in 10 minutes. And, I was assuming that since I would be moving faster, more like I was running, with the second variation, it might be relatively more challenging to lung capacity? But, maybe not.

To use a cycling metaphor, you'll find that picking a "gear" that is too high will zap your strength too fast, whereas picking a "gear" that is too low will lead to not getting very far/far enough/as far as you could otherwise have in the allotted time.

Ditto picking exercises that don't come to a natural resting point. There's a reason why the barbell, dumbbell, kettlebell, and clubbell lifts are the way they are.

[7Wannabe5]

@jacob:

Gotcha. That makes sense. Except for the squat, they are all based on your arm joints. My torso is 4 inches longer than it should be relative to my height and my arms are relatively very short (this is known as negative ape index, because means that you are towards the end of normal human proportion that is least like an ape), so when I deadlift, the bar ends up quite close (about 4 inches) to where I would shift a child to my waist/hip juncture. IOW, most human's fingertips land about halfway down thigh, but mine land only about 1/4 way down thigh.

[Henry]

Who cares if you can finally get back into a size 8 dress if you can't even lift your arms well enough to put them through the sleeves?!?!

To which 7Mamabe5 will reply "Who cares if you can lift the laundry basket over your head when you're wearing a shoulder sling." I was talking to an older contemporary about health shit and he made comment about muscles "We don't need them now." He meant in a score chicks kind of way but he was onto something. Due to pilates training, I can walk the entire back and forth of our driveway which is about 150 steps on my toes and it impressed the shit out of my wife because at this inning of the game it's more lady part tingling than me being able to lift boulders over my fucking head like some geriatric Atlas. Power lifting puts an enormous stress on your joints and although I can see the benefits of being the strongest great grandmother in the bingo room in case things get heated as they are wont to do when you gather a bunch of biddies to compete against one another, it might be better to be the most agile. You can do just as much damage by stuffing a plastic ball into a finger pointing crossing the line dried up old crone as you can folding her up, shoving her into the bingo cage and cranking her around like a dirty sock in a washing machine. Obviously, living with old people is affecting me in a not so positive way.

[7Wannabe5]

@Henry:

I agree that a boyish nimbleness may be as appealing as overt muscularity as one ages. My super-fit-for-his-age multi-millionaire friend could still toss himself around like a lad up until just a couple months before he died of cancer-spread-throughout-body at age 80. My choice is based on my DNA test traits analysis in the category of athletic performance. Out of the 36 possible performance traits, the only ones in which I scored a likelihood of 4 on 1-4 range were:

1) Competitiveness
2) Getting Stronger
3) Holding Your Breath
4) Oxygen Use
5) Runner's High
6) Speed

My worst traits on which I scored only 1 out of 4 on likelihood were:

1) Heart Rate Recovery
2) Pain Tolerance
3) Persistence
4) Physical Agility
5) Physical Flexibility
6) Sports Technique
7) Watching Sports

And I would say these are pretty accurate with Speed (literally only in my mind) and Pain Tolerance being only exceptions I might make. OTOH, my only real bragging point on pain tolerance would be that I chose to give birth for a second time without any painkillers just so I would have a 0% copay on the hospital bill, so that would just be balancing the pain I feel opening my cervix to size of approximately 9 lb size XL head baby vs, the pain of opening my wallet to the tune of maybe $2000. Also, those who very much enjoy running may not like to hear this, but IME a high genetic tendency towards Runner's High is also linked to a high tendency towards quick endorphin release in reaction to pain which is not at all the same thing as high pain tolerance which would be more like simply not feeling the pain. Hmmm... vs. Arrrrrrr...Ahhhhhhh. What is known as the high of Sub Space in S&M community is not exactly the same as Runner's High, because it's more intense and longer lasting, but it is the more commonly known high it best approximates. If I wasn't asthmatic, bottom-heavy, pigeon-toed, and relatively short-legged, I would probably enjoy running for the runner's high. To the extent that I've done it over the years, it's pretty easy for me to get into mildly tripped out state where I almost believe that I am a Native American running on the river trail, etc.

Anyways, my DNA trait analysis would seem to recommend strength training and swimming as my primary choices.

[jacob]

3) Holding Your Breath

That could definitely be a competition during the annual bake sale at the senior center.

[7Wannabe5]

That could definitely be a competition during the annual bake sale at the senior center.

Well, in my recent experience the competition during the weekly free food giveaway at the senior center is simply who can actually stand-up without wobbling for the entire time (maybe 30 minutes max.) they are waiting in line. Sadly, I would estimate only around 10-20% meet this standard, so there are chairs placed in the hallway for the use of those who don't have a wheelchair, scooter, or walker.

However, I was thinking that the ability to hold one's breath for a long time would come in handy if/when doing the HIIT workout below, combining swimming with strength training, that theanimal first posted on IlliniDave's thread. The Crawl sounds like an especially fun challenge! The water aerobics class I attended also combined swimming with strength training, but obviously not at such a challenging level, although we did do something like Dolphin Jacks and something like Jumping Squats. For whatever reason, as with many asthmatics, swimming does not trigger my asthma like running almost always does, even when I swim in quite cold waters. I know some top runners who have asthma just go ahead and use their albuterol inhalers, but it's always seemed kind of counter-productive to me whenever I've taken up running for exercise. I also generally don't have problems with asthma when hiking at a steady pace.

Dolphin Jacks- Hold weights out 90 deg away from your body and bring them down to your sides. Simultaneously move your legs out and in like jumping jacks
-Ammo carry- Holding the weight like a football, swim one lap (or as appropriate) on one breath. Switch arms
-Cellphone- Carry a weight in one arm overhead out of the water and swim as far as you can on one breath. Switch arms
-Crawl- Start in a pushup position on the bottom of pool/lake and move the dumbells forward one at a time, moving yourself forward with them. Stay under as long as you can.
-Jumping squats- Hold weights at your shoulders, squat down and explode up out of the water
-Swim on your back with the weight on your chest, using your free arm to swim
-Alternating jump lunges with weight overhead
-Alternating explosive cleans

[Henry]

If I wasn't asthmatic, bottom-heavy, pigeon-toed, and relatively short-legged, I would probably enjoy running for the runner's high.

I bet the penguins would let you march with them.

[7Wannabe5]

@Henry:

There was a guy called The Penguin Runner who wrote a very good book on slow running for people who are not runner-types which I used to own entitled, "The Courage to Start: A Guide to Running for Your Life." I completely gave up on running as a possibility after my third bout with plantar fasciitis.

[chenda]

I'm glad you're liking swimming @7.

Thinking about it you could probably combine it with some calisthenics. Squats in water would possibly add some resistance, at least on the return movement. You could do press ups in the splash pool.

[7Wannabe5]

@chenda:

I actually can hold my breath for pretty long, so I think retrieving heavy objects from the deep side of the pool would be a fun activity. Also, my plates are coming on Monday, so then I am going to start working towards doing 100 squats with 75 lb. extra resistance (beyond the not insignificant weight of my azz.) However, it still doesn't seem right to me that squatting with 80 lb. weight = 20 lb. clean-and-overhead work-wise, although deadlift 80 lb. = 20 lb. clean-and-overhead does seem somewhat more accurate. I'm also going to move up to 24 lbs. on clean-and-overhead Monday, because it's quite easy for me to clean-and-overhead my 14 lb. bar 100X in 10 minutes, even though my lungs are still kind of corroded from virus. Once I can do 2400 lbs. in 10 minutes, I will be 2/3 of the way to my Middleweight (140-180 lbs. bodyweight) Strong-Woman Category goal of 3600 lb. in 10 minutes. I think if I get to the point of being able to deadlift 220 lb. 1X and squat 220 lb. 1X, I will be able to achieve my emergency fitness goal of being able to haul an unconscious 220 lb. man out of the woods, if I have something like an extra belt to secure under his arms in addition to the one secured below his moderate paunch in order to make him a more manageable package. According to the results of his latest annual exam, I might even be able to haul the just slightly heavier than 220 lb. POTUS to safety. I will then celebrate achieving this goal by figuring out how to do my hair in fierce Viking braids and then pounding my fist against my chest and howling like Gudrid leaping on to the ground of the New World or Jadwiga leading her troops into battle.

[white belt]

Gotcha. That makes sense. Except for the squat, they are all based on your arm joints. My torso is 4 inches longer than it should be relative to my height and my arms are relatively very short (this is known as negative ape index, because means that you are towards the end of normal human proportion that is least like an ape), so when I deadlift, the bar ends up quite close (about 4 inches) to where I would shift a child to my waist/hip juncture. IOW, most human's fingertips land about halfway down thigh, but mine land only about 1/4 way down thigh.

Given these proportions, you should be above average at any squat movements and pressing movements. You will likely be below average at any pulling movements (deadlifts, rows, etc). Given your self-described body type of “thick” your entire life, it is likely you do indeed have an aptitude for strength training. A decent proxy for strength/muscle maximum potential is to measure the diameter of your wrists compared to general population. Thicker joints means thicker tendons, ligaments, bones, etc which all lead to the ability for your frame to carry more muscle.

Powerlifting and bodybuilding can very much be nerd sports due to the understanding of physiologically and biology required to make optimal gains. There are many exercise scientists with PhDs who fit in this category.


ETA: If 7W5 was born a millennial or Gen Z, she probably could’ve been an Instagram model

[7Wannabe5]

A decent proxy for strength/muscle maximum potential is to measure the diameter of your wrists compared to general population.

I'm 5' 9" and my wrist circumference is 6.8 in. I didn't self-describe as "thick" until I was in my 40s, and I dated a guy who toured with Parliament. Still, I would agree that I am consistently "thick curvy" whether I am quite thin or quite fat according to the scale, I currently kind of resemble the model on the front of my mother's XL Depends packages.

[Henry]

and I dated a guy who toured with Parliament.

Has to be Boris Johnson.