Over 60 ERE Biomarker and Related Metrics 5 Year Competition

[7Wannabe5]

This thread will be devoted to the development and accomplishment of an Extreme Anti-Aging Markers and Metrics Contest for the Over 60 cohort of forum members. The functional goal will be the creation of a valuable legacy for the younger forum members. The less functional purpose will be whipping up the competitive spirit of those members who are distinctly more juvenile in their masculine energy. This is a long-term contest with *WINNER TROPHY* to be presented by an impartial judging panel comprised of fitness-informed forum members currently under the age of 45 at EREFest 2030 or similar event-scape. Hat-tip to IlliniDave for inspiring this contest through his personal goal accomplishment and setting.

[jacob]

Oh, so now it's a competition

Since I'm in the age-range of 45--60, I'm thankfully out. I would suggest including the sit-stand test. and lets not forget the classics. Also, I think everyone wants to see @7wb5 and @Henry engaging in a shopping cart demolition derby of sorts, subject to literary interpretations and insults for bonus points.

Obviously, whatever trophy should be homemade by the loser, preferably out of papiermache using recycled junk mail from stores that no self-respecting eremite would want to be seen in, using the least amount of effort possible and presented to the winner who will be obligated to say at least two nice things about the obviously bad trophy-making effort in their acceptance speech. Okay, that was a long sentence ...

[7Wannabe5]

@jacob:

Yes, to all of your suggestions.

I didn't intend to exclude middle-middle-aged group, and should have indicated currently under 55 for judging panel. I just wanted to provide potential for those currently between 55 and 59 to roll into the contest as they turn 60.

A simple suggested list of possible metrics :

1) Waist-to-Hip ratio/Shoulder-to-Waist ratio

2) Waist-to-Height ratio

3) Blood Pressure

4) Blood Sugar

5) Body Fat %

6) Sleep: Quantity/Quality metrics

7) Steps per Day

8) Liver Enzymes

9) Lower Body Strength/Body Weight

10) Upper Body Strength/Body Weight

11) Aerobic Capacity

12)Skin Tone/Facial Wrinkling

13) General Vitality

14) Bone Density

15) Social Connections

16) Sexual Function

17) Flexibility

18) Balance

19) Sight

20) Hearing

21) Cognitive Functioning

22) Overall Appearance

23) Blood Cholesterol

24) Resting Heart Rate

25) Youthful Spirit of Adventure

I'm sure I neglected some important aspects, and some of these may be redundant and/or approached through a combined metric.

ETA:

26) Twerking!

[Henry]

Also, I think everyone wants to see @7wb5 and @Henry engaging in a shopping cart demolition derby of sorts, subject to literary interpretations and insults for bonus points.

I was thinking along the same lines. Who' going to get excited about inputting a bunch of stats into the Bat Bio-Computer and waiting for a read out based on a some sort of geriatric calculus of shit density and sleep habits. Let the geezers knit their own robes, pick out a fight song and walk down the arena steps into the ring to prove who gets to wear the belt of a younger but albeit still old person. And I'm 59, so I got a few months to prepare before I wipe the last vestiges of pretty from 7W5's face. Although, I'm not sure about Illinois Dave because he's like Viagra model pretty.

[7Wannabe5]

@Henry:

Yeah, IlliniDave and Ego are both consumer product placement prettier than me, so clearly not the basis on which I plan to !DOMINATE! the field. I will knit my own robe, compose my own fight song, and unleash my own signature moves, markers, and metrics at the 60-Plus ERE 2030 Battle-Slam! You better start calculating expectation of your trouncing once I commence to bouncing!

[Lemur]

I'm curious what the over 60 cohort have as far as "things I wish I started doing when I was younger" when it comes to health.

I can think of floss teeth, keep body composition in check, and wear sunscreen off the bat. But might be some other things I am unaware of. This is the century of anti-aging where we can concievably delay aging and prolong lifespan but I think even as a mid 30 year old, I will probably miss the official "we cracked the code to aging." Perhaps my future grandkids will see that!

Its not impossible to envision a future where Lemur makes it to 100 .... cool but also scary in a way. My grandfather made it to 93 and he didn't do anything special at all except take his daily pills.

ETA: And not just a bed-ridden 100 year old completely dependent on others....hopefully one that can still ride a bike and be independent.

[Henry]

I'm curious what the over 60 cohort have as far as "things I wish I started doing when I was younger" when it comes to health.

Flexibility. I think too many people focus on strength and stamina when they are younger and don't realize that doesn't help putting on your socks, getting out of a car, or militating against throwing your back out when you sneeze. Because of my pilates routine which I try to do 3-4 week, I am more flexible now then when I was 30 and I can feel it. Go to a physical rehab center and sit in the middle of that nightmare. Old people trying to make it up one step. When you see a fit older person, think not in terms of the Senior Olympics but the mother of the bride showing up her daughter on the dance floor. 7W5 referenced twerking, but I'm guessing she's hitched to one of those really big GILF asses, so I'm going to get pummeled on #26. But when the DJ cranks up the ABBA, Ms. Old Polyamorous Big Butt is going to fall into the clapping circle surrounding my scrawny ass busting out the moves. Believe that. And I'm guessing Illinois Dave is only good for a few air guitar moves after he downs a few beers and cranks the Marshall Tucker Band. But of course Dave doesn't compete against anyone but Dave.

[7Wannabe5]

I wish I had started addressing hormone replacement earlier, because now I am playing a bit of catch-up, even though I am just 5 years post-menopause. I still think less is more in this realm, but doing absolutely nothing is not ideal either. Continuing in my now well established practice of TMI posting, I will reveal that I used to be a human who was always almost immediately ready to have sex, and now I am not, and this makes me feel a bit glum.

OTOH, in the categories of things I did right without even trying, the fact that I have never smoked and rarely drink and only very one or two times experimentally used other drugs would be very high on my list. None of these were feats of willpower on my part, I simply don't enjoy enough or feel too much immediate discomfort from their use. I actually think it might be easier to "bounce back" age-wise from over-eating (but maybe not if you don't eat the good stuff, maybe lentil soup and applesauce cake, but not Big Mac?) and under-exercising than from alcohol and tobacco use, and this might also be true for marijuana and other substance use. Also, I think if you strongly want to have kids eventually, having them young like I did is the best choice physiologically if you are female, because they will use you up and wear you down.

I'm guessing she's hitched to one of those really big GILF asses

Yes, but as I've learned through my introductory study of the art of the twerk, lower back flexibility and core strength are much more critical to success than simple possession of a tendency towards gluteal fat disposition. Imagine (or remember) that you are a grouchy old man in a deli carrying a nice hot bowl of soup in your pelvis. Tip the bowl forward, tip the bowl back, spill that soup, drop down, pick it up again, the bagel, the bagel...

[C40]

having spent time with him in person, I would bet that Ego would test very well

[7Wannabe5]

I would bet that Ego would test very well

For sure. That's why the competition has a 5 year on ramp for those of us arriving later to the active pursuit of age-related fitness metrics community.

[jacob]

I'm curious what the over 60 cohort have as far as "things I wish I started doing when I was younger" when it comes to health.

I can think of floss teeth, keep body composition in check, and wear sunscreen off the bat. But might be some other things I am unaware of. This is the century of anti-aging where we can concievably delay aging and prolong lifespan but I think even as a mid 30 year old, I will probably miss the official "we cracked the code to aging." Perhaps my future grandkids will see that!

I'll offer some unsolicited comments (age 49) since I had the same question/conversation with someone my age (~50) when I was your age (~30).

The two issues you have to look forward to are "use it or lose it" and "minor issues"-creep. (I suspect that these are the things that turn into "not used, so lost" and "major issues" at age 60-70, but I don't know yet. It does look like it though from where I sit.) The <40yo crowd can coast on lack or use or lack of maintenance. Your body is still new and so it doesn't matter if you don't maintain it or mistreat (=anti-maintenance) it. Fifty (40--60) is when [lifestyle] starts catching up, all things depending, and begins to make a material difference.

Yes, strength and stamina. These are the things you'll have. What you'll lose if not maintained are tendons, flexibility, and speed.

Also, from where I'm sitting, it's a lot less about various blood markers and lab test results, etc. but much more about attitude. If you've never done a pull-up or run a 5k in your life at before, you're probably not going to start now with your brain being rather crystallized at this point. OTOH, meeting lab tests do seem where the 60yo+ have their statistical focus ... and I can't argue with numbers. However, I'm on team iDave in that regard in that if you're in the US healthcare system, the prevailing attitude of the medical system is to give you a test, quantity your symptoms on a printout, and proceed to prescribe a cocktail of pills according to population average medicine while ignoring all the things you could do yourself. To be fair to doctors ... it's also my experience (yes, a precocious 50yo will be gathering "data") that most old(er) people basically presume that there's nothing they can do to prevent their destiny even if they can or could, in principle, make a difference. It's quite conceivable that I'll change my mind in 10--20 if/after learning that attitude doesn't beat physiology.

[7Wannabe5]

As devil's advocate, I might point to the possibility that focusing too hard on the metrics that can be moved in Robinson Crusoe fashion may also put you at risk of avoiding some simple medical interventions that might make a large difference in your outcomes. For example, one of my poly-partners is more towards the lifelong fit affluent human model. He looks like a cross between Dick Cavett and Mitt Romney. He was a high ranking amateur tennis player in his youth, mountain climbed in Tibet, and routinely biked 15 mile commute to work in his 60s. So, obviously, also somebody who always had access to best medical services. His blood pressure is extremely high for reasons he can't control. If he doesn't take his medication it shoots up to 200, and I sometimes have worried that he might die in flagrante delicto, and then I would have to feel guilty for encouraging him to lift more than 169 lbs . He is still taking his blood pressure medication, and at age 72 he is currently enjoying a hiking vacation in Patagonia.

My point here being that there are reasons why the affluent currently live much longer in the U.S. and it isn't just because the deplorables only eat cheese puffs and malt liquor.

[Henry]

So you're fucking J. Peterman?

[7Wannabe5]

So you're fucking J. Peterman?

No, but hilariously* good guess based on my description. Really he looks very much like blonde Mitt Romney, but he's very liberal and talks/presents more like Dick Cavett. My second partner, my "ex" looks just like Iranian Sean Connery, and my third partner "The Cowboy" is kind of a cross between Jack Nicholson and Alec Baldwin, and the longish-term poly-partner (my first permaculture partner)I am no longer seeing looks very much like 6'2" version of Black Thought (without the beard.) I'm 5'9" 169 (on a good day-sigh) myself, so if you viewed my lifetime assortment all together, would very much resemble reunion of a football fraternity.

Actually, I think Terry Bradshaw would make a very good wedding-cake-topper match for me appearance-wise, because I am only moderately pretty and built like the biggest cheerleader who lends support at the bottom of the pyramid. So, my 60-plus health/fitness super-competitive boot-camp plan-for-the-win should be in alignment with my core "biggest cheerleader" potential. For example, lower body strength will be one of my easier re-boots. I'm also historically pretty yoga flexible, but only in certain positions favored by the fact that I am pigeon-toed. Aerobics always suck for me due to asthmatic, and although I can fairly easily lift 40 lb boxes full of books or large bags of compost, my butt weighs more than that, so I can't do a pull-up to save my life.

*Hilarious, because J. Peterman and I are both too "vague" and/or "scattered" to be a functional couple. We would only occasionally, randomly bump into each other while engaged in parallel play. Also, he is a little too pretty-pretty to be my type.

[chenda]

Who is J Peterman?

It is my belief that undertaking intense sports in younger years is bad for one's longer term health. Professional athletes seem to age prematurely. Well probably not the ping-pong players but anything requiring intense physical effort. Judo players for example are usually riddled with osteoarthritis by the time they're 30.

It is also my belief that doing marathons is a bad idea. Every year you hear of some young 20-something dropping down dead because hearts weren't designed for long level endurance activities. I'm mean it's probably statistically better then eating cheese puffs and malt liquour but it's not optimal for health.

Swimming and walking are imo by far the best cardio activities. Swimming is particularly good to retain and enhance flexibility and range of motion.

[jacob]

Who is J Peterman?

No less than the second most interesting man in the world. Probably most famous for the "urban sombrero" in Seinfeld. It's a real company by the way: https://jpeterman.com/ Sort of the clothing equivalent of Garrett Wade (tools).

Some years ago, there was a kickstarter where you could buy a lunch with the J. Peterman himself. No, I did not engage because I'm nowhere near that level of amazing.

[IlliniDave]

Even though I qualify in age and general interest, I'll probably be a nonparticipant. I'm pretty open about that stuff in my journal if people are interested.

Some random thoughts:

My understanding is that the contributors to 5-year survival rate (sort of the proxy for longevity) with the strongest backing are VO2 max, total muscle mass, and muscle strength. None of those are easy to measure and obviously difficult to compare across sex and somatotypes. And in general there is some conflict between optimizing VO2max and optimizing muscle volume/strength. And of course those apply in the absence of a diagnosis of diseases like cancer and cardiovascular disease, type 2 diabetes, and the like.

Fat location is much more important than leanness per say. Visceral fat is deadly. Subcutaneous not so much.

Once you get into your upper years, low cholesterol correlates to as much excess mortality as high cholesterol.

Fasting insulin is a much better measure of metabolic health than fasting glucose. Maybe a glucose tolerance test would approach fasting insulin. Our bodies are extremely good at regulating blood sugar, enough that we typically mask insulin resistance for decades before ultimately losing blood sugar regulation.

To be most fair would probably require three divisions: "natural", Rx assisted, and biohack/excessive supplement assisted. I'd be in the third group, ha.

Good luck! Anything a person can do to preserve vitality as long as possible is a good thing.

[7Wannabe5]

Swimming and walking are imo by far the best cardio activities. Swimming is particularly good to retain and enhance flexibility and range of motion.

My understanding is that the contributors to 5-year survival rate (sort of the proxy for longevity) with the strongest backing are VO2 max, total muscle mass, and muscle strength.

Thank you for your input. Okay, my events in the competition are shaping up to look like:

1) Deadlift. (suggest 25% adjustment for gender.)

2) Endurance swimming in Great Lakes or similar cold body of water.

3) Twerking. (videos submitted or live judging.)

4) Supta Virasana/Kapotasana. (ha, I know how to take old guys who played too much sportz down for the count.)

5) DIY Glucose Tolerance: Eat 38 Brach jelly beans in 15 minutes of less. Blood draws at 1,2, and 3 hour intervals. (This is a real thing. I did not make it up.)


I'm thinking that each participant can define up to 5 specific events/challenges, and all participants can compete in any challenge. The above represents my first brainstorm, not my final event selection/designation.

[jennypenny]

Things I've been told to measure as a metric for how fast one is aging ...
grip strength
time it takes to get off the floor without using arms
wall sits/planks/pelvis raises (wd?)
bone density

Things my PT and OT seem most interested in (in me and other goldies while I'm there) ...
balance (like for at least 30 seconds)
lifting legs while walking
avoiding tightening of chest muscles
isometric exercises
ability to touch toes (and rise again without getting dizzy)
ability to break a sweat (meaning exercise hard enough to break a sweat, implies a certain musculature baseline)
ability to dance (with head held high)
pronounced difference between upper/lower strength or left/right
ability to walk long distances, again with head held high (not looking where you're walking)

I always think of emergency-type things ...
Can you sprint long enough to get away from someone?
Can you actually stop, drop and roll, or climb out of your bedroom window, or crawl out of a burning building?
Can you hold your breath under water for at least a minute?
Can you actually perform the duties required if you're sitting in the emergency row on an airplane?
Can you lift someone up off the ground? Or carry your pet to safety?
Are you strong enough to do CPR?
Can you climb onto your roof in a flood?
Can you climb out of your car?
Can you swim to safety?
Can you climb a tree to get away from an animal?
Do you know how to avoid getting caught in a crowd or how to escape one?

I'm much more focused on applied skills than arbitrary metrics. Good BP and glucose numbers are essential, but beyond those few non-negotiables, real-world tests seem more important to me.

[Henry]

Things my PT and OT seem most interested in (in me and other goldies while I'm there) ...

I sat in a few PT sessions for my 90 year old MIL last year. Every exercise had a corresponding real world application. How many steps on your porch, can you put a shirt on, how high is your shower, how high is your bed, can you give your son-in-law the finger, if so, how long can you hold the finger. Obviously we're at subsistence level here, but real world markers seem to provide a purpose as opposed to just a read out.