ERE City (US)

[theanimal]

@theanimal What are the schools like? Do most people homeschool? I assume there is a hospital in Fairbanks?

There are Fairbanks Memorial Hospital and Chief Andrew Issac Medical Center (serving natives) in town along with a number of clinics and urgent care facilities. From my understanding, there are almost always jobs available. Depending on your specialty, there is also short term/seasonal travel work out to the villages off the road system(which generally don't have much in the way of medical services) that is a lot more lucrative.

Most people in town attend regular schools. Homeschooling is more common than other states (in my experience) but is not the norm. Pearl Creek elementary is the school for the Goldstream Valley and regularly places in the top 10% of schools in test scores within the state. If you choose to homeschool, the state has programs where they provide learning resources and funding for some materials.

That being said, it's worth noting that there is not a large drive to increase education funding here. There was just a borough proposition vote two weeks ago that overwhelmingly rejected a proposal to increase funding for education through increased taxes (property, liquor, marijuana, occupancy etc). A few years ago, the state cut funding to the educational system, including the universities. Although from my understanding, core departments (STEM) did not see much decrease or get cut.

There is a farmers market in the summer 1 mile away from our house in front of the community center on Thursdays. There is also a community garden, park, and playground there as well. The main farmers market is ~7 miles, 15 minute drive away on the west end of town, twice weekly throughout the summer. There is also another farmers market in the nearby community of Ester (15-20 minute drive) on Tuesdays. You probably will also find of interest that beekeeping can be done here and there are small groups who help each other out in making that work in this climate.

And finally, one of our favorite businesses in town is The Roaming Root, which sells only Alaskan made foods, goods and housewares. Something like roasted coffee and candles from some new Alaskans would probably be a hit .

[Frita]

@theanimal
My SIL and BIL were long-time Fairbanks residents with an outback summer cabin. About 10 years ago they moved to the western lower 48. They both struggled to adjust, more so him, and then moved to the PNW. More of the same, ending with his fatal heart attack as she was packing up her stuff to leave him, perhaps of a broken heart? I will always wonder if staying in that community would have made a difference.

Alaska, especially Fairbanks, has a hold for some people. (My spouse lived there and Anchorage. He struggled with the darkness and cloudiness. It can certainly affect mood in some people, though I suspect genetic disposition and familial conditioned-response.)

Just out of curiosity, do you need to haul water? What’s the sanitation situation? Getting used to that lifestyle (and maintaining it) can be a challenge.

[Ego]

I arrived full of questions (@theanimal can vouch for that)! He and Mrs Animal where very gracious and patient with my mountain of questions.

So yeah... I am full stoke on Fairbanks/Goldstream and I think the ERE potential is high despite the known challenges (winter darkness, winter temperatures, and a handful of weeks of intense mosquitos). Whos next?!

* The community has a couple dimensions. Part is the fierce independence/mind your own business of the people in AK, combined with a strong sense of "We understand the challenges of life here, We've got you" if you need help is important.

Mistakes when moving to rural Alaska can be deadly in ways that moving to Chicagoland or the PNW are not. At this point, would it be useful to discuss the responsibilities of those who decide to relocate?

It may be useful to recount my experience helping several people navigate the complex process of obtaining Italian citizenship. The first person I helped took the outline I presented, ran with it and were successful without much help. When they hit a wall, they asked if I knew of any resources where they might find a solution. They did the work. The second person turned to me when they encountered difficulties. I helped them solve a few problems and explained how I did it. I stopped helping when they continued to come back with similar problems that they were able to solve themselves. Finally they realized that they needed professional help. The third never read the outline and asked a series of basic questions which I referred back to the outline. Rather than solve their own problems, they turned to me for solutions and gave up when they realized I would not do the grunt work. While there was much more to it than those few sentences reveal, the broad brushstrokes stand.

When North Americans wish to relocate to Italy they often experience bureaucratic and logistical hurdles. One Catch-22 style problem I find amusing is that non-citizens cannot rent a home without a bank account, cannot get a bank account without a long-term visa and cannot get a visa without proof of a lease.

Resourceful people who used trial and error to find ways around these hurdles for themselves went on to found companies to help those who do not want to do the legwork.

Back to those relocating to Alaska. Would the Confucius quote that @Jacob likes be a good guiding principle? “If I raise one corner for someone and he cannot come back with the other three, I do not go on.”

Alternatively, the @theanimals both used trial and error to solve the hard problems Alaska presents. If their area of rural Alaska becomes EREland, they will likely encounter something similar to what I experienced helping others with Italian citizenship. Perhaps they might consider starting the Rural Alaska Relocation Company to help relocators solve the other "three corners" problems.

The other option is to cross the bridge when it comes.

[theanimal]

We're up to 3* in the Goldstream (Fairbanks, AK). Who's next?

*See @AxelHeyst's journal for more detail on his new directions. viewtopic.php?p=292077#p292077
---
Since my original posts, I've joined the local tool library, which could be added to the mix of area pros. It has just about everything you need for building or tool intensive projects/hobbies. You can search through their inventory here.

---
@Ego brings up some good points in his post above. There are some things that are very different from the conventional lifestyle in the lower 48 that require more thinking/strategizing for those of us living here. That said, we still are in the US, so you can have a conventional home setup/life as elsewhere if you'd like. But it can come at a significant premium.

[sodatrain]

Hey Folks - Long overdue for a quick update about ERE City Fairbanks after spending almost a month there in August/September before heading to EREFest at QH!

It all started with a more expensive and much longer (in time) drive from Minnesota, thru Colorado, and to Fairbanks. I'll post about that in my journal later.

I was going to spend about 6 weeks in Fairbanks with DP joining me for about the last 10 days before EREFest24. It ended up being closer to 3 weeks due to the longer than expected journey to Fairbanks. Overall it was an excellent and exciting/optimism generating experience. It was quite possibly peak Fairbanks weather/season with the leaves changing, some perfect blue sky days, beautiful northern lights and cool evenings. DP and I stayed in my converted cargo trailer and to both our surprise, she loved it more than expected! She loved life the trailer, she loved Fairbanks, she loved @theanimals, she loved the vision for life in a small off grid home as part of a charming and interesting community just outside of town etc. etc.

This visit was sort of a trial to see how she would like it. It's drastically different than Guatemala - while there are still some interesting parallels! It was a smashing success. Alaska here we come! The plan is be in AK a big chunk of the year and not there for good chunks of winter. The not in AK time might be visiting Guatemala or it might be hauling my trailer around visiting national parks or friends/family in other parts of the world.

We left feeling the love for sure. @theanimals make for the basically the perfect neighbors and introduction to the rest of the community. We are drawn to the incredible natural beauty as well as all the freedoms found like lack of building codes. It feels like a great spot to be and be able to actually *live life* - not work. The friends that we've met there are all *living* so much (vs working in the corporate/consumer lifestyle). We are looking forward to growing food, learning to hunt, building a house, spending time the way we want - not chasing modern life. She recently got the book How To Survive The Modern World - and it seems fitting. I read the first and last parts - already wanting to depart the modern world.

Slight tangent... I was listening to Sam Harris and Yuval Noah Harari talk about AI and they were making the point that we are at a point of divergence. Those who will embrace all this tech and want the Nueuralink path... and those that don't. It seems obvious now that it was pointed out. I think it's true. And we are both squarely in the "no thank you" part of that bifurcation. The podcast then went on to point out that we had a moment similar to this in the past. Some cultures/groups embraced the written word and others eschewed it. Those groups that did not embrace writing have largely died off. I feel like that should bother me, clearly wanting to be without a Neuralink type connection, but it doesn't.

Back to our experience. It was fantastic. We are aware that we may have had the most perfect weather and that some of the glow will likely wear off. But... we feel we see a path to lots of goodness. The day after we left, a neighbor installed some gravel to complete the pre-existing driveway and to give us a building pad to hold a small home. It will settle over winter and I'll be back in the spring to start building what is likely to be a 20x24 small home. We think often about Alaska and can't wait to get going on the next steps. It's decent timing to have the building pad settling over winter and to give us a few months to transition gracefully.

Some other highlights from my/our time in AK:

* One of the goals of the trip was to build an outhouse (and shower) before DP arrived. It has a composting toilet. Showers at the laundromat are available...but we are gonna need one at the land. It was more or less complete when she arrived. Needed a battery for the pump as part of the camp shower setup. We stained it together before leaving. Step 1 was to build some sawhorses. Nice thing about building your own, beyond the big $ savings, is you can make em to your desired height. These are some tall saw horses!
* One of our favorite things was to lay in bed with the back gate of the trailer down and just watch the leaves fall. It's also a lovely spot for morning coffee. Or a late lunch. Truck/Trailer on the land.
* I/We saw @theanimals several times, was fed their/the best home made pizza around with a seriously impressive melange of toppings, including freshly sniped quail and several vegetables from their garden. I successfully charmed Baby Animal, which I am quite happy about!
* There were dozens and dozens (hundreds?) of wild mushrooms fruiting on the land
* I got my second lesson on how to use a chainsaw from Mrs Animal. This was a great hands on and practical/in the field lesson to complement the into EREFest23 intro. I fell a couple small trees - and failed at my first real size tree. Mrs Animal came to the rescue - whew.
* We went Raspberry picking at a u-pick place a few minutes from our homesteads. Wild blueberry picking is on the agenda for next year for sure. There are wild Raspberry and High-bush Cranberries growing on my property already! Mrs Animal made the best blueberry muffin I've ever eaten. The wild berries made a huge difference!
* DP and I took a mini road trip to visit [urlhttps://imgur.com/0yLabx8]Denali[/url] which was powerful to see, even from 50-ish miles away, eat the pizza that inspired @theanimal to learn to make pizza, and drive the Denali Highway. The Denali highway drive, at sunset, is spectacular 1 2 3. We pulled over to gawk at the scenery so many times. Stunning. We stayed at a rustic and charming hunting lodge along the way. Saw rivers, lakes, moose, porcupines, glaciers, mountains, bald eagle, etc. Almost like a fairy tale.
* We visited the UAF Large Animal Research Station and saw Musk Ox, Bison, and reindeer.
* We managed some pretty decent meals cooking in my trailer - managed to feed some familiar and some new faces. Thanks to @theanimals for hosting/arranging. Veg Black Bean soup and Esquites.
* DP had her first Sour Patch Kids candy!
* Visited North Pole, AK and posed for pictures on their candy cane street light posts.
* We started DP's time in Fairbanks the first morning with a brunch at the local watering hold - Ivory Jacks. OK food, but a great Bloody Mary with bacon wrapped pickled egg. It was great to be able to walk there. Ivory Jacks also happens to be the local liquor store. And I don't know exactly what it was, but working outdoors on small construction projects made me want a beer at the end of the day for the first time. $25 for a 12 pack of Pacifico didn't feel very ERE - but dang was it enjoyable to sit outside in the afternoon after working and kick back with a beer. Thankfully I'm not a big drinker so it one or two was (usually!) enough.
* Visited the Museum of the North at UAF. It was quite nice - better than expected. Nice short films on things like the northern lights. Interesting exhibits.
* View of driving into town
* It was great to cross paths briefly with @AH while there too!

That's enough for now...

[bryan]

Well, I'll hop in and set some feelers out.. I've been living in Birmingham, AL since covid (started dating someone here) but it's all but certain that we'll be on the search for somewhere better.

Mainly, partner is DACA and has had to deal with a lot of personal trauma stuff. Anxiety, depression, cPTSD, etc; early in her journey of recovery. Never lived anywhere other than Birmingham, AL since coming from Jamaica in elementary school. Things would just be a lot easier in a new city, probably in a blue or purple state. She would be cool living away from any city, but I would not. So a smaller city or some suburb of a city would probably work best.

1) Are you interested in "ERE city" if it means moving there?
2) Are you interested in "ERE city" if it happens grow around where you already are?
(answering no to either of those question is still helpful to gauge interest, but if the answer to either is no, there's no need to answer the rest)

I can't imagine an ERE city really being super enjoyable (too much competition scavenging, to start; see @jacob's AQAL perspective thread?), but it would be cool to have friends with so much in common. I think it would be #2 or I could also see this working:

For purposes of creating a "scene," it strikes me that centering that scene in a college town probably makes a lot of sense. It would need to be a college that has the right "identity" for purposes of whatever the scene is.

Preferred level of development:
3) Are you willing to move to a high-density urban area? (3+ story buildings)
4) Are you willing to move to a low-density urban area? (closely spaced 1-2st)
5) Are you willing to move to a suburban area? (widely spaced, lots of lawn)
6) Are you willing to move to a "small town" (one mainstreet) area?
7) Are you willing to move to a rural area?

no on 7. We were watching a show called "Who's Afraid of a Cheap Old House?" and I was loving the #6 value, homes, buildings, but I really value the more complex, happening culture of cities.

Since politics is getting increasingly important in people's decision making process:
8) Are you willing to live in an area where the politics or political vibe differ from your own?
9) Are you willing to live in a state where the politics differ from your own?

Unfortunately, I do think the next four years will need to be in a place where she feels safer. Where there won't be as much fear of ICE or random folks disparaging immigrants (not knowing she is one). Otherwise, we would both be fine with being the odd gooses out and find our niche, sub-culture.

Amenities:
19) Which are the most important ones? (Walkable, bikeable, nature, internet, climate resilient, dating scene, music scene, sports activities, airport, hiking,...)

Yes! If I had to order them, I think climate resiliency would be up there, followed by airport, walkable/bikeable, then music scene. I've been playing bicycle polo, so if the city does/could support an alternative sport like that, it would be a green check for me.

[AxelHeyst]

Nate Hagen's podcast episode about the 2,000w society with Peter Strack is interesting and relevant. (@Jean you know anything about these?)

In today’s discussion, Nate is joined by Peter Strack, a French researcher and author, to explore the concept of 2000-Watt Societies—innovative models that aim to balance reduced energy consumption with the well-being of the people who live there. Peter explains the historical context of energy consumption and origins of lower-energy communities, as well as the necessary changes in infrastructure, social dynamics, and personal habits to reduce energy consumption while sustaining a lifestyle that is fulfilling and caring for residents.

A number of these societies exist mostly in Switzerland and France, with the *goal* of attaining 2kW lifestyles. The descriptions strike me as a co-op ish model applied at the neighborhood scale (the largest is 3,000 people, most are a handful of households). So not as intense as your garden variety eco-village.

It also struck me as a bunch of people attempting to achieve ERE praxis from a group-centric greenish paradigm (and to at least a certain extent, succeeding!). It was illuminating listening to Nate attempt to wrap his head around what people do with their lives when they opt to work less, earn less, and have more free time, because their lives in these societies cost more. Strack explained that basically no one in these societies works full time, because their COL is low. There was a funny-to-me back and forth where Nate asked follow up questions trying to figure out wtf they did with their lives and why that was more appealing than make more money (which they didn't need). It was illuminating because I felt like I was observing an ERE-shaped blind spot in the mind of someone who otherwise "gets it" (the predicament) at a pretty deep level. Either that or he was playing it up for the narrative arc of the episode.

Anyways, might be some idea nuggets in the resources list.

[Stasher]

Thank-you for this link AxelHeyst , I'm looking forward to listening/watching. This is something I am very interested in from both a personal level but also community builder level. Creating great communities by making them more compact and connected but also reducing the environmental footprint of the people living there.

[guitarplayer]

Nate Hagen's podcast episode about the 2,000w society with Peter Strack

Cool, thanks @AH! You nudge me to move to Switzerland with this

I struggled for a minute to grasp the 2000W concept, too used to thinking in domestic kWh and had to look it up / recalibrate.

So for those equally confused, the 2000W concept equals to 48kWh/day concept. Spoiler: biggest chunk is embedded in buildings, then clearly there's travel.

[ducknald_don]

There is a bit more information on the concept here,

[Jean]

I remember earing about 2000W society since I was a child .
At a domestic level, it is trivial, but if you include industries, it's much harder. (Duh )
I'll listen to the podcast next week.

[7Wannabe5]

I was struck by Strack's note that approximately 1/3 of footprint is completely under individual control, 1/3 under joint individual/government (larger social body) control, and 1/3 completely under government (larger social body) control. In the same way that AxelHeyst described Nate being savvy yet somewhat surprised due to ERE shaped blind-spot, I think we here at ERE are somewhat blinded to the necessity and efficiency of community level solutions and/or the government level maintained infrastructure that supports our individualistic/minimalistic solutions. I mean, yeah, storing your collection of books at the Public Library is a great idea until the library is shut down due to lack of funding. That's why I believe, for purely pragmatic medium-term reasons, that if you have reduced your income/spending to the level that you are no longer paying taxes, you should be engaging in some level of community work. If you are a volunteer with the Friends of the Library as well as a frequent patron, then you will be in place to contribute to a solution to the library closure due to lack of funding, etc. etc. etc. Even just doing things like being one of the few citizens regularly showing up to meetings of your local water board would go a long way towards integrating and expanding the potential for reducing footprint or retaining/improving quality of life at the 1/3 Venn diagram overlap of functions that are under joint individual/larger social body control.

The other thing to realize is that just like you can with some difficulty do permaculture while residing in an urban chain hotel, you can act as if you are already living in a designated 2000 watt community or ERE City or similar. It just takes the same sort of perspective switch towards "beginner eyes" that might allow you to "be a tourist in your own hometown." At the very least, even if you are completely unable to effect change in the short-run, in the medium run you will comprehend the system that is your current community to the extent that you will be more effective as the poly-crisis emerges. Just take your systems analysis out one more level; if you frequently rely on intra-library loans for your edutainment, research how much this service costs your library within the scope of the overall library budget and the flows that fund it. Determine the highest spot in your local topography. the most valuable items in your local museum system. Teach some local kids how to test local water supply for safety. Ask the guy at your neighborhood ALDI where their distributor is located. When almost everybody focuses either at own navel level or at the very top, the possibilities for access, influence, optionality, and unique knowledge/insight at mid-level of community or watershed becomes ever greater.

[jacob]

There was a funny-to-me back and forth where Nate asked follow up questions trying to figure out wtf they did with their lives and why that was more appealing than make more money (which they didn't need). It was illuminating because I felt like I was observing an ERE-shaped blind spot in the mind of someone who otherwise "gets it" (the predicament) at a pretty deep level. Either that or he was playing it up for the narrative arc of the episode.

I don't know about Hagens in particular although that might be why he never answered back when you reached out to him about ERE. However, there are effectively three camps of responses (respondents?) to the predicament. I call them camps because almost everybody only lives in one of them and at best come to visit the other camps w/o really understanding what or why anyone would choose to "live" there. I've seen this both in the original peak oil movement, the present one, the metacrisis people, the environmental movement, the climate change people, and the FIRE people. It always splits in three although the distribution/popularity between the three does change.

In no particular order, ...

The first camp are the "Informers". This is the theory camp for people who like to talk theory and the world situation. Their "response" is to raise awareness. The idea, I suppose, is that once more people realize what is going on, "they" will do something. You'll find them on internet forums and on each others podcasts. They are the talking heads of the movement. At the end of the day, they go home to their typically well-educated/middle-class/mainstream consumer lives. (I always make a point of checking to see what's in the background of any given podcaster's. Books? Art? Fancy lamps? Granite countertops? I know this is strategically arranged now and possibly even fake. What I'm trying to figure out is how much their lifestyle costs/what it actually is.)

The second camp are the "Protesters". They believe that by "organizing" and holding up signs together while empathically voicing their displeasure with clever chants, "the powers that be" will change course. For many in this camp activism is a lifestyle. There's always something to be protested and the polycrisis provides an abundance of material. The general sentiment here is that individuals can do nothing on their own. They also believe that it's impossible for one person to change or challenge the power structure. "Only together" can the power structure be challenged and changed. At the end of the protest, they go home to their typically well-educated/lower-income lives because "that's just the way you have to live" given the system.

The third camp are the "Doers". This is the practitioner camp. Their "response" is to live the theory as if it was real or material. Insofar they protest or vote, they protest with their own feet. Insofar they inform it's only for a brief period of time. They're not interested in rehashing the same information over and over from slightly different personal perspectives. The Doer camp doesn't really discuss theory. For them, it's settled and they're committed. If you ask them about theory, they know the situation but they're not keeping up with the latest buzzwords. From their perspective, the other two camps are pretenders or wannabes who don't walk the talk.

If I had to make an experienced guess on the distribution, it would be that the beginning of a movement has proportionally more doers than informers or protesters. This was definitely the case with the peak oil movement 25 years ago. Once the movement grows big enough, it allows for newcomers to only be attached tangentially and treat the problem like an interesting hobby. They can live vicariously through the informers w/o really committing much themselves. They're part of it more to experience a feeling of concern and/or intellectual stimulation. Or perhaps they want to feel the excitement of being part of a loud herd and/or "unlock the achievement" and gain the badge of having been part of some protest somewhere.

In conclusion, I believe the blindspots are very real because they originate in deeply held ideas about how the world actually works. The informers believe that humans have the wrong information but if they get the right information they will immediately change their mind. The protesters believe that humans have the wrong feelings but if they see how other people feel they will start to feel differently. The practitioners believe that the other two are wasting their time trying to convince others and it would be better just to do their own thing. That is all I have because I don't see my own blindspot.

[Stasher]

I think we here at ERE are somewhat blinded to the necessity and efficiency of community level solutions and/or the government level maintained infrastructure that supports our individualistic/minimalistic solutions. I mean, yeah, storing your collection of books at the Public Library is a great idea until the library is shut down due to lack of funding. That's why I believe, for purely pragmatic medium-term reasons, that if you have reduced your income/spending to the level that you are no longer paying taxes, you should be engaging in some level of community work. If you are a volunteer with the Friends of the Library as well as a frequent patron, then you will be in place to contribute to a solution to the library closure due to lack of funding, etc. etc. etc. Even just doing things like being one of the few citizens regularly showing up to meetings of your local water board would go a long way towards integrating and expanding the potential for reducing footprint or retaining/improving quality of life at the 1/3 Venn diagram overlap of functions that are under joint individual/larger social body control.

@7w5 ~ Can I give you a huge digital thank-you high five for this ! Love all of it, as someone trying to make a difference in my community myself this gives me faith in keeping on the path I am on.

@jacob ~ similar in my reply to 7w5, thank-you for your response as you really characterized 3 types of people I see weekly in my efforts. Interestingly you really added a great response on pushback I often get about taking efforts on climate change adaptation/mitigation. Those against always keep saying, the public doesn't even have climate change in their top 5 most pressing concerns. Well the answer to that is that it is engrained into their lifestyle already as Doers and they speak to bigger pressing matters, of which climate change doesn't need to be labelled as it actually the underlying causation or can be mitigated by addressing the other top issues.

[7Wannabe5]

Love all of it, as someone trying to make a difference in my community myself this gives me faith in keeping on the path I am on.

Thanks, but I would note that one of the reasons I seek community engagement is that it has been my experience that it makes my own life happier and more interesting. It creates a greater depth to experience in a manner not dissimilar to becoming widely engaged as a reader. In simplest terms, it makes life more meaningful. As Richard Meadows noted in "Optionality", which I am currently reading, we humans really only have around 5 basic sources for meaning/fulfillment;

1) Work or entrepreneurship
2) Family and Children
3) Philanthropy
4) Religion
5) Creation (art, music, literature, etc.)

And Community Engagement can often serve to hit 2 or 3 of these at one go.

In conclusion, I believe the blindspots are very real because they originate in deeply held ideas about how the world actually works. The informers believe that humans have the wrong information but if they get the right information they will immediately change their mind. The protesters believe that humans have the wrong feelings but if they see how other people feel they will start to feel differently. The practitioners believe that the other two are wasting their time trying to convince others and it would be better just to do their own thing. That is all I have because I don't see my own blindspot.

I feel a bit Goldilocks with these three choices, although I also perceive their validity. I think the notions of privacy and boundaries present something of a blind spot that furthers the false dichotomy of "Convince others" vs. "Do your own thing." I also believe I've been veering a bit too "goody-goody", so let me offer a not-so-good example of what I mean. Kramer frequently walks into Jerry Seinfeld's apartment and just helps himself to milk and cereal and other snacks. Jerry sometimes offers minor protest, but generally he tolerates this behavior, because he finds Kramer otherwise amusing or occasionally useful or FITB. An anti-Kramer might exhibit the same sort of minor lack of respect for boundaries/private-property, but instead of eating Jerry's food, he might wash Jerry's dishes. Generally, at the level of Community, there is a wide swath of expandable commons at multiple levels that can be accessed or optimized through personal initiative without need to convince others or gain consensus if your intent is clearly pro-social. For example, you can make a sign that says River Cleaning Meet-Up this Saturday 10 AM and just stick it in the ground at the park. Three frequent voids to be filled are going to be initiative, competence, and leadership. Sometimes, as with my above example of citizens attending water board meetings, the void to be filled is simply showing up. And once you show up, take initiative, exhibit competence, or rise to leadership in one context, optionality, influence, and access will open towards other contexts.

For example, I signed up to substitute teach at a school for disadvantaged young children. Since there is a shortage of humans willing/competent to fill this position, I was immediately placed on preferred list. After demonstrating my competence a few days, I informed the principal that it was my intention to just teach a couple days/week, and he informed me that I could just walk into the office any day I wanted to work with them. There is also a large, untended, terraced garden space on the site of this school. Once I am a bit more settled into this community, and I have also integrated myself with a community gardening group, I may take initiative to create a permaculture design appropriate for the very young, and maybe some youthful activists from the local college campus would volunteer to help with the heavy lifting if I distributed some flyers at a social justice rally. etc. etc. etc.

[jacob]

@7wb5 - Well, now that you mention it. There is a 4th group which I rarely associate with or seek out and so I don't know how big it is to the point of me not noticing. That would be the "help others" or "service"-camp. That said, I do know one person from the service-camp. This person is very stuck on their role as a helper to the point of ignoring permanent solutions that would eliminate the need for help. Essentially, their identity is formed around being needed and helping someone else. Any suggesting that would eliminate being needed is not welcome.

FWIW, of all the enneagram numbers, I score by far the lowest on "2".

[AxelHeyst]

I don't know about Hagens in particular although that might be why he never answered back when you reached out to him about ERE.

Point of fact: he responded politely to my email about ERE, and that was that.

I am composing another message to him re: my thoughts on the intersection of ERE praxis and 2kW society.

[7Wannabe5]

@jacob:

I agree that the dysfunctional edge of "helping" is towards "needing to be needed" and/or "martyrdom" and/or "infantilizing others." Even when working with disadvantaged 3 year old children, it is critical to maintain the personal growth edge such as "No, you need to try to put on your own jacket, but then I will help you zip it up." There clearly is an essential conflict between the desire to be respected as a member of a community and the need to be helped as a member of a community. Still, sometimes humans and other complex entities require our help, and it may even be the case that not providing the needed help may go beyond being unkind to systems-level stupid. For example, not helping the elderly die with dignity is unkind, but not helping the three year old kids who may one day be wiping your wrinkly butt is systems-level stupid. Not helping abandoned pet rabbits is unkind, but not helping the pollinating insect species is system-level stupid.

However, beyond the fact that you are clearly helping others through this forum and your book, it is also the case that the same part of the brain activates when you consider scenarios featuring "future you" or scenarios featuring others. Ergo, to some proportion of the extent a human is capable of helping their own future self, they are also capable of helping others. Also, humans are social animals to the extent that it is difficult for a human to contrive a stated personal purpose without ultimately referencing others. And, there can also be something very "chop wood, carry water" about service work. Empires rise and empires fall, but snot will still run out of the noses of humans not yet expert in the skill of wielding a handkerchief.

[Ego]

Empires rise and empires fall, but snot will still run out of the noses of humans not yet expert in the skill of wielding a handkerchief.

I have mentioned this before....

The first step in medicalizing a human condition is to give it a name. There are psychological conditions that are common in individuals and can sometimes present in society as a whole. Alternatively there are sociological dysfunctions that are common in societies but rarely present in individuals.

There is a profit in treating individual so we tend to name extremely rare psychological conditions but leave the extremely common sociological condition unnamed.

Munchausen syndrome by proxy is an excellent example.

While it is very rare on an individual level, the degree to which the community of aid-workers (professional handkerchief wielders) is afflicted with the societal form of Munchausen by proxy is astounding. My years in Africa made me want to beat them with a stick.

[7Wannabe5]

@Ego:

Well, any human tendency may be rendered as a profession and when taken to it's extreme may present as a psychiatric disorder. For obvious example, nutrition and exercise professionals at the stereotypical extreme default to the narcistic, compulsive, and/or avoidant/restrictive nervosa. I want to beat them with a ...naah, they'd just be like, "Ooooh, endorphin rush, do it again, harder, make me feel the burn."

Anyways, I defy you to sit at a table with 7 three year old kids eating wet peach chunks and overcooked broccoli with their fingers and not direct the one with yellow snot running down her face to go get a tissue (actually rough brown paper towel, because classroom ran out of tissue.)