AE's Adventures in Accidental FIRE

[7Wannabe5]

Therapy is like taking a dance class for your emotional functioning. It adds some muscle and some flexibility to whatever is currently feeling or functioning weak or rigid for you. It eventually allows you to fluidly express vulnerability and better support it in others in the manner that a confident dancer possesses the core strength to trust herself within her trust of her partner (her life-world) through the sit, dip, or drop. Highly recommend.

[OutOfTheBlue]

Ertyu, I hear you. And I get that you are partial (!) against parts work. While I don't necessarily think your assessment applies as a blanket statement and in particular to Inner Relationship Focusing (I can expand on this, maybe elsehwere?, but will say here that: IRF talks about cultivating and being Self-in-Presence [a "place" from where you can hold and relate to everything with spaciousness and curiosity, without reactivity or preference], and about the Power of AND: like you said, being with this AND that, even opposites: that's the whole point of what I wrote on the inner criticizing process: identifying "sides", without taking sides), I agree with the core of what you're sharing.

Being immersed in a nondual tradition, I too am weary of approaches [and implementations] that may further inner fragmentation and result in creating/believing and getting stuck in even more stories ("my inner/wounded child is acting up again"... etc.). I can say IRF is not like that. At the end of the day, it is Focusing at its best. And beyond the theoretical understanding/framework, in practice, there is no need to talk specifically of parts. It suffices to say "something (in me)", just like in standard Focusing. A living "something" that's there, in the space of my subjective body.

I chose to bring up an example from IRF for a number of reasons: AE is aware of parts work, what I described can be applied more broadly, and this may be one of the best modalities I know of for tackling inner criticism, which seems to play a big role here.

---

Now, what you're sharing in the second half of your post is actually a very important point and realization.

That's part of what I wanted to convey in Jin+Guice's journal.

What we call the ego could be seen (not as an entity, but) as that very activity/tension of seeking, striving and resisting you describe.

You may not like the analogy, but one of my recent insights was that the functioning of such defined ego (that self-referential, limited "I" that wants to fix this or that yesterday - and only then- things will be okay, etc.) is similar to that of a "part". To be ego/mind-identified, is to be in contraction/fragmentation. [Which reminds me of that homunculus ego-dissolution experience you described elsehwere, AE].

When you are merged/identified with a limited perspective (and dissociated from other aspects of your aliveness, of the whole), disidentification is a first step that creates the necessary space for relating: "Relationship = Connection + Distance", as IRF puts it. Identifying that you are identified is crucial.

Well, the ego [mind] is such a limited, contracted perspective***. And we don't need to be identified with that.

We can learn to identify with and surrender to that uncontracted, infinite "I" [= consciousness, so ultimately, nothing other that yourself], accept everything as it is (and as it changes), including that striving!

A thought is not a problem as long as it is not believed and given energy to. With enough space to that openness to do its work, all tension falls away.

Learning to let go of doing [as in, being that limited doer] is learning to allow yourself to be done.

There is power in returning both our attention and intention to that source.

So, I think you've found it, Ertyu. The banging of the head is what's creating the wall [to bang one's head on]. There was no wall to begin with! It is hard to let go (or rather, as hard as I make it), as I'm discovering for myself. But with enough trust and turning toward, the process just unfolds naturally.

--

***In the context of that ego/mind-perspective, why/how is it limited? Because we're identified with an aspect/subset of our experience (not with experience/experiencing itself, it's subtle to disassociate the two!). The content of experience (and the ego-mind is such content) comes and goes, is transient, but the space (which is not a space) within which all content appears: that is consciousness, that infinite "I", which is unwounded and unwoundable, untraumatized and untraumatizable, that all-pervasive perspective can take on this or that limited appearance without ever becoming itself limited. The screen makes everything that is projected on/within it possible, without itself being affected by it. The mirror does not lose its purity because of its reflections. On the contrary, its ability to hold reflections rests on that purity. And the beauty of it is that, being conscious/consciousness, we can find that out for ourselves!

[AnalyticalEngine]

@OOTB - Thank you for your detailed write up. What you wrote makes a lot of sense to me. One thing I have noticed in myself is this tendency to replace how I actually feel with how I think I should feel. I notice this very starkly with both anger and depression, although it also happens with positive emotions like love. It's like my mind has decided my actual emotions are too dangerous and so continually tries to substitute them with judgement toward either myself or other people or the entire world. I do blame Mormonism for this. Mormonism weaponizes any human tendency toward its own ends, and as a result, I have a hard time just allowing my own experience or just allowing myself and other people to simply be human without controlling it. I feel like letting go of this control and learning to be present would help me quite significantly.

You may not like the analogy, but one of my recent insights was that the functioning of such defined ego (that self-referential, limited "I" that wants to fix this or that yesterday - and only then- things will be okay, etc.) is similar to that of a "part". To be ego/mind-identified, is to be in contraction/fragmentation. [Which reminds me of that homunculus ego-dissolution experience you described elsehwere, AE].

This was a realization I had too during that experience--this realization that the ego I identify with IS another part, that there isn't this core "me" under all the parts--the parts and the experience are all there are. But I let go of this realization for awhile because it was contributing to the depersonalization. However, I do believe it is the truth. Ones sense of self (the ego) is just a shortcut the brain uses to make life easier to navigate. In this sense, it's a useful shortcut, but it's also a mistake to let who I think I am get in the way of my actual experience, which is simply something that unfolds.

To this end, I am starting to think somatic therapy and a consistent contemplative practice would be good for me. I am definitely an intellectualizing type and I think I am reaching the limits of that tool.

@Suo - I have not read Permission to Feel, but reading the book summary, I think I would benefit from it. I struggle with emotional regulation and understanding myself sometimes, and this seems like a useful tool toward that.

Speaking of emotional regulation, I do notice that I write more when I am feeling dysregulated, which is something I am trying to be aware of, mostly in the sense of becoming more aware of my triggers and how the dysregulation feels bodily. It's very easy for me to enter "brain in jar mode" but I think the way out of this may be rooted in the body.

@J+G - Agreed on therapy and the fact the emotional issues are holding me back from considering all options. I keep trying to remind myself I have tremendous optionality, but certainly it can be hard to remember this if I am in the middle of a depressive episode. Still, it's easy for me to let go of my own agency, which I think is a human problem.

One thing I notice is I have a tendency to displace the present onto the past. Ie, I might start getting upset over all the things I wanted to do in college but didn't do. Well, there's nothing stopping me from doing those things now, and the reality is, these really are things present me cares about when past me did not. The mind is strange and slippery.

[AxelHeyst]

One thing I have noticed in myself is this tendency to replace how I actually feel with how I think I should feel. I notice this very starkly with both anger and depression, although it also happens with positive emotions like love. It's like my mind has decided my actual emotions are too dangerous and so continually tries to substitute them with judgement toward either myself or other people or the entire world.

Your introspective posts on this dynamic have really helped me recognize, name, and think productively about a very similar maladaptation in my own head. I'm very appreciative of them.

I'm also quite curious how you find somatic therapies. One of the reasons I've never pursued "therapy" is because my mental model of it is something like talk therapy, which I feel I can somewhat passably pull off with DIY approaches. But somatic methods, whatever that means, sounds like something well over my head (aka something I'd need a guide to at least get me pointed in the right direction) and potentially highly impactful because so far from my 'natural' well-trod approaches.

[Slevin]

On the subject of somatic therapy, It is actually hilarious how often I think I'm upset / anxious, and then I notice and address it by starting to focus on breathing from my belly and calm down pretty immediately. When I'm anxious I often breathe inside my chest / ribs, which makes me feel trapped inside the ribcage, which then makes me clench my teeth, which then reinforces the whole feeling anxious thing further, and it sorta spirals, which I can't really reason myself out of the anxiety, but is really easy to cancel it out somatically. Focusing on feeling the bottom of my feet helps me a lot as well.

[Jin+Guice]

This might be off-topic to AE's journal, but the forum as a whole might benefit from a detailed post explicating this. There is a lot of negative attitude to therapy on this forum, ranging from, "it's for sissies" to "the therapists have a deliberate interest to keep you fucked up and keep you going," to "it's all navel-gazing and only makes you weaker, as a man you must ACT ACT ACT" to "well why can't you just ignore your irrational feelings" and so forth. A couple of members have shared they've benefitted from therapy but no one has gone into a lot of personal detail...

I agree with the others who said I find this forum generally preaux therapy. I spend all of my writing time working on my stuff in my journal (or on writing erotica) and I don't feel compelled internally to write up my therapy story. However, I am happy to write it up if even one person (including @ertyu!) feels they would benefit from it. So if you want it ask for it (and copy this post so I get an alert or ask in a PM).

One thing I have noticed in myself is this tendency to replace how I actually feel with how I think I should feel.

This is, in my opinion, an absolute crisis. I think many many people (myself included) suffer from this, but do not even know it is happening, so you are already ahead on solving it.

If you can't trust your own emotions, you ultimately can't trust anything. This effectively means you let the ghost of the past make all or some important decisions for you.

If there is just one thing I can tell anyone from therapy it is that "should" will fucking murder you.

[suomalainen]

I'm also quite curious how you find somatic therapies. One of the reasons I've never pursued "therapy" is because my mental model of it is something like talk therapy, which I feel I can somewhat passably pull off with DIY approaches.

One benefit of talk therapy, when you have a good therapist, is that they don’t actually tell you anything. Therapists that instruct are therapists that project. The good therapists are the ones that can just reflect perfectly. They show you YOU, without distorting the reflection. This is something you can’t do for yourself. And something your friends and family are bad at.

If there is just one thing I can tell anyone from therapy it is that "should" will fucking murder you.

Agree whole-heartedly. If you have shoulds, it probably means you have a reflected sense of self as opposed to a solid sense of self - you’ve adopted someone else’s values and are judging yourself by them rather than discovering and embracing your own values. Good luck in facing your own emotions. The only thing I can tell you to help is to try to remember that your true emotions are spider problems and not tiger problems. They can’t actually kill you.

[AnalyticalEngine]

@AH - Thank you, I am glad you found the introspective posts useful. The more I write about my internal processes, the more I realize they aren't actually that unique and many people can relate to similar dynamics. So given this, there is genuine value in sharing how I overcome roadblocks.

After thinking about this some more, I think the problem of replacing how I actually feel with how I think I should feel is an instance of the id and super ego at conflict. The id throws emotions of want/need/feel into the conscious mind, and the super ego judges these as "I should/people should/the world should." I should not feel sad, other people should do x, the world should be a certain way. All of these should's, when they are fighting with the id's want/need/feel, create misery.

I think my problem is an overactive super ego and a suppressed id. This is probably a pretty natural problem for the high in conscientiousness, logical, engineering temperament/INTJs, and could also be conceptualized as Te suppressing Fi/Si with unsophisticated Fe or a North sub suppressing a South sub in Plotkin language. Either way, the solution is the same, which is letting go of the super ego should's and being more sophisticated with embodying the id's want/need/feel's rather than suppressing them.

Really, this makes sense insofar as the super ego is the part of the psyche that's internalized social expectations and the id is the primal part of the psyche that wants regardless of the social expectation. It could very well be that getting out of the super ego trap involves returning to the id and embodying it to connect better to individual desire/stoke.

[grundomatic]

I neglected to subscribe to the new journal and subsequently missed a lot of action!

I was in the Dutch part of Belgium just last week, and I was a bit taken aback at how just not shitty it was. The streets were clean, they had bicycle lanes everywhere, people seemed actually happy, there were no billboards.

I really enjoyed the low countries as well. Bicycles and chocolate–what’s not to love? Maybe a small country, like a small house, makes it easy to keep things nice?

@jacob - A path that needs walking indeed. I am starting to wonder if one can do the equivalent of spiritual bypassing with Kegan levels where one just tries to skip over K3 without fully integrating the lessons of that level. Or if one is in a hostile social environment during those critical years, K3 lessons become more the shadow and less the ego. I'm thinking what I might need to do is be more conscious about my actual needs and how to fulfill them. I grew up in an environment (religious cult) where no one was allowed to have any needs ever (Turn It Off!), and I am wondering if this is now the problem.

I know for me, depression made it hard to look at anything in a positive light. I took an SD values quiz during the worst of times, and the results came back "unhealthy manifestations of orange, green, and yellow". Is something similar happening here? Like the world you were socialized into for K3 was so bad for you that you can't even shop for a new group in K3.5, and without that it’s hard to imagine ways for you to be at K4? Like if LDS life sucks, and careerism sucks, and meetups suck, and darning socks sucks, wtf am I supposed to do, then? While I don’t have input on appropriate therapy, it seems like having some time and space away from outside pressures can only help you figure out what you want. Taking time off (1.5 years now!?!) relieved the worst of the bad feelings for me. My work isn’t done, but I’ll save that discussion for my journal. (note: low conscientiousness here, so you made need something else) I sincerely hope you can find some peace in the coming year. F#@$ depression.

[chenda]

@AE - You might find it useful to connect with other ex-mormons, they are very active on you tube.

[AnalyticalEngine]

@grundomatic - There is definitely wisdom in recognizing when one is too burned out to make any meanful decisions. Allowing oneself to rest is the right choice here. I took basically the entire month of December off to do nothing but play video games, and it did help. I am feeling marginally more functional. Although, as mentioned in the post I deleted, I did take Deep State Contractor job and my first day is tomorrow. I actually don't think this job will be particularly challenging but I am already feeling the dread of needing to Be A Professional again. I suppose I'm just going to have to figure out what I'm actually trying to do here.

@chenda - You are right, there is luckily a pretty large exmormon community, both online and also in person in Utah. It's funny, but after being Mormon, I can usually spot who is exmormon, and they can usually find me. There's also a secular community center near me that offers some recovering from religion support groups I think could be good for me to attend.

----

In completely unrelated news, I've been thinking that it's not so much that I want to quit but that I need to find a job that meets my other goals. I genuinely don't think I'm ready to hang up the Working Professional hat yet and so I'd be wise to find something that fits me better.

Getting my PhD is something I've always wanted to do, so I've been looking into that. And while traditional computer science is getting saturated at this point, I do believe that quantum computing has the potential to grow in a decade or so, and so I've been looking into programs and brushing up on physics.

I think I might need an undergrad in physics if I want to pursue this, but nevertheless in the mean time, I've gotten a book on the math of quantum computing and been trying to brush up on my differential equations and linear algebra.

Quantum mechanics are so truly bizarre and counterintuitive (although very far from the magical view of it that's common among pop media) that the whole experience is humbling in a positive way. I mean, if this is what nature actually is under the hood, then all of my other opinions are pure hubris.

So I'll probably keep studying it on my own and look into a few programs/career opportunities and see if there's actually something here that might work for me.

[Quadalupe]

That sounds like a cool area to dip your toes into AE! You might not even need to learn *too much* physics. A friend of mine has a PhD in Quantum Cryptography and they don't actually know a lot about the intricate physical details. I worked through some lecture notes I found about quantum computing once. It was intended for high school students, but I still found it quite useful and interesting. It might help you too, so here's the link.

Looking forward to see your first implementation of Shor's Algorithm.

[jacob]

That sounds like a cool area to dip your toes into AE! You might not even need to learn *too much* physics. A friend of mine has a PhD in Quantum Cryptography and they don't actually know a lot about the intricate physical details. I worked through some lecture notes I found about quantum computing once. It was intended for high school students, but I still found it quite useful and interesting. It might help you too, so here's the link.

Fun stuff! I skimmed through the link and can confirm that this has very little to do with the kind of QM that's taught in the physics department. The focus here was mostly on spin-states and their possible entanglement---think of it as a complex matrix generalization of boolean logic---whereas the focus in the physics department is one of calculating eigenfunctions and values for various force fields for energy and angular momentum in order to predict what happens when two particles collide. As such, the physics version is almost exclusively differential equations whereas for computing it's mostly matrix algebra.

[AnalyticalEngine]

Thanks for the resource, @Quadalupe. This does look very useful indeed. There is some overlap here with the textbook I bought but this is covering it at a more simplistic level, so I think it's worth going through these exercises first.

Also, @Jacob, that's useful to know and tracks with what I've seen so far. You need a physics background if you are actually designing the hardware, but if you are focusing on the algorithm side, spin states and entangled qubits are a hardware abstraction similar to how writing in assembly code ignores what the actual transistors are doing. So jumping directly into algorithms/software may not require too much reskilling.

[AnalyticalEngine]

Rethinking Index Investing

I sold some ESPP shares in my taxable accounts, as well as some index funds I didn't really want to hold any more, and now I have $450k in a HYSA. This is an obscene amount of money, and I need to figure out what I am actually doing with it because holding cash forever is not a great plan. (Note that I do have $500k still in index funds in 401ks/etc that I can't access any time soon and am therefore less worried about).

The issue is that index investing is starting to make me increasingly uncomfortable with the ridiculous valuations in the stock market right now. "Time in the market beats timing the market" is starting to sound like something everyone repeats without understanding the institutional and macroeconomic factors that made that paradigm possible in the first place. Paradigms work until they don't, and I'm trying to develop a better understanding of what is a paradigm shifting event and what is simply a bump in the road.

If anyone has any resources that can help me grow my understanding here, that would be great. I bought the macroeconomics textbooks Jacob suggested on his reading list and I'm working through those, but I would like additional resources if anyone has any.

[theanimal]

Aswath Damodaran is a renowned finance professor at the Stern School of Business (NYU). He posts his courses on Youtube and has lectures on corporate governance, valuation, investment philosophy, and accounting/statistics. They would be an excellent complement to the finance textbook primer series.

Here is his channel. He is teaching valuation and corporate finance classes this semester and is uploading videos each week. Otherwise you could also go back and look at prior years.

https://www.youtube.com/@AswathDamodara ... /playlists

[zbigi]

Some suggestions, that I use myself:
1. There are "low volatility" index funds. They basically take some index and remove stocks that have been jumping up or down the most in recent times. For example, for US, it means buying SP500 but without e.g. the very expensive tech stocks. There are also "value" index funds, which outright invest in companies with low P/E ratios. Arguably, in the bear market they wouldn't go down as much as the most expensive stocks.
2. Corporate bonds. US junk bonds ETF pay 7% dividend (there are also accumulating ETFs, which reinvest the divident). It's decent money for a low amount of risk. Biggest risk right now is Trump tarrif wars increasing US inflation, which would send the bonds down, at least temporarily (which could be inconvenient if you wanted to sell them before the bonds in the fund reach maturity and the price of the ETF bounces back).

[Chris]

Not a solution to your cash problem, but in the short-term, that 450k in a HYSA is going to generate taxable interest income. Maybe consider treasuries (or an ETF like SGOV) to at least avoid state income tax.

[AnalyticalEngine]

@theanimal - Thanks for the link! Those lectures look great. I'll give them a listen.

@zbigi - Good point on the alternative ETFs, like corporate bonds, value stocks, etc. Bonds in particular are looking increasingly attractive. I'll dig into that some more.

@Chris - You're right about taxes. I need to reevaluate that asap actually because the $450k is so much interest on top of my W2 income and some realized capital gains that I might get absolutely screwed in that department.

[Western Red Cedar]

Rethinking Index Investing

No need to respond here unless it is helpful, but a few questions:

Do you have an investment policy statement? If so, are you actually following it?

What timelines are you considering when you look at valuations and investment strategies?

Have you created a detailed withdrawal strategy? Does it include considerations for taxes or health care?

How does your current asset allocation align with your IPS and withdrawal strategy?

Simply prioritizing an IPS helped me carve out space to figure out an investment strategy that fit in with my lifestyle and other goals. It is quite helpful to return to if I'm second-guessing myself or worrying about the markets.

Big ERN's SWR series is a good resource if you still need to develop or refine your withdrawal strategy: https://earlyretirementnow.com/safe-wit ... te-series/