Personality typing by brainscan

[Jim]

Heuristic seems to have slightly varying connotations in different fields. It's a technique for allowing someone to learn on their own with broad but limited guidance, or make a decision with a greater than average likelihood of success. Likening a heuristic to a rule of thumb is an apt analogy. A boxing heuristic might be "don't get hit in the head" and a marginally better one might be "Use your hands to cover your face and move your head around." As you mention, GP, the downside is that this it doesn't ensure the certainty of success with the same likelihood you might find when adhering to a detailed systematic approach and isn't necessarily based on sound principles. The benefit is that it allows for innovation outside of a pre-established system, which is why I don't ascribe to the idea that a heuristic need be only for the uninitiated.

[jennypenny]

I had a pretty bad head injury last spring. I still have lingering issues but I'm considered mostly recovered. I retook many of the personality tests discussed on the forum, and my results are different than before. The biggest changes are with MBTI and Enneagram.

I've had several scans since the accident but none before so I can't compare them. I'd say though my own anecdotal experience indicates that some of this is hardwired, but also in a way that can be rewired, at least physically. My family and friends tried very hard to make my environment as routine and familiar as possible post-accident, so I don't think any changes are from external or social influences. The biggest change is my reasoning process and how I make decisions. I also no longer need to know the 'why' behind everything. Functionality and efficiency has overtaken optionality and process.

It's hard to have a life (environment, habits, social roles) that's set up for one personality and suddenly have a different personality. Not everything is different but enough to make it hard to navigate life right now. I'm more of a believer in how our 'types' on these tests reveal why we set up our lives the way we do because if your type changes randomly, your life no longer fits. I don't mean like if someone gets cancer or something and has an awakening. I mean like if your basic type suddenly shifts and you find yourself perplexed by the long-established habits and systems you obviously set up but aren't sure why.

Not sure if this info helps anyone. It's strange to get to play two different MBTI types in one lifetime. Judging by the endless notes I left myself on everything, it must have been exhausting to be a P (INTP to be more exact).

[suomalainen]

it must have been exhausting to be a P (INTP to be more exact).

Can confirm

[7Wannabe5]

Interesting. How strongly did you test as P previous to your injury? As an eNtP-A, I pretty much can't imagine life as an S, can imagine yet not readily activate life as a J, can fairly easily shift into F, and function pretty ambidextrous E/I . Therefore, I know exactly what you speak of with the "endless notes left to yourself on everything." I did find that my recent experiment with doing OODA loops and taking mild amphetamine-like diet pill while accomplishing my final project towards graduate degree did maybe make me feel a bit more J or Te like, maybe? Might have been more the case that it tilted my Ne even more towards Ni temporarily, because I was very locked in/down on more focused Vision. Basically, I was forcing myself to get to far-from-ideal-minimum-viable-product-yet-stamped-DONE! more frequently and rapidly and not allowing anything else to distract me from the project, even though this was short-term expensive.

One reason why I think I associate Te or J with adult masculine functioning is that you have to insist that nobody else has the right to bother you or ask anything of you while you are functioning hyper-focused, decisive, and fast like that. For example, a stay-at-home Mom who was primary Te would likely go nutz during the phase when kids won't even leave you alone for two minutes in the bathroom.( Amazing, but true! I just looked it up on the internet, and the first playpens were invented in Scotland (homeland of frugality and industrial engineering) and were called "baby cages", and the first "portable baby cage" was invented by an American woman in 1922. )

My second "husband" with whom I have been hanging out lately, was injured in a very bad motorcycle accident, and it did effect his memory-function to some degree, and also resulted in making his personality a little more mellow, maybe more ENfj than ENtJ, but that also might be due to age and medical marijuana. He was always pretty borderline on the F/T (extroverted emotionally emotive exacting engineer), so the tilt towards P is the difference. I think it also might be due to losing the use of his dominant hand in the accident. His J-Engineer is suppressed, because he literally can't Decide-Do in rapid succession anymore. Although, that wouldn't necessarily stop him from bossing other humans around like he used to, so maybe the pot-usage is the most significant factor. In summary, if you want to be more focused, driving and J-like: amphetamines. If you want to be more relaxed, open and P-like: marijuana.

[chenda]

( Amazing, but true! I just looked it up on the internet, and the first playpens were invented in Scotland (homeland of frugality and industrial engineering) and were called "baby cages", and the first "portable baby cage" was invented by an American woman in 1922. )

They use to stick them outside high rise windows so baby would get fresh air.

https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/histor ... 1934-1948/

@jennypenny - glad you are recovering well.

[jennypenny]

Interesting. How strongly did you test as P previous to your injury?

High. High on all of them.

I must have been a raging P. Ask people like jacob who had to work with me. It's not just about the notes but the content of the notes. I couldn't make a decision with researching 10+ possibilities. I have multiple versions of the book I wrote with notes explaining the changes in each one. I had money all over the place for various and sundry reasons. The sheer number of spreadsheets in my files was certifiable.

People say I'm harder to talk to now. I can't tell if that's the J losing interest in pointless conversations or simply that people haven't figured out they're not talking to me c.2023. At first, my therapy was centered around pretending to be the old me when engaging with people; the thought being that my brain just needed to be reminded of who I was. Now that it's clear some changes are permanent, therapy is centered around navigating life as an imposter (my words, not theirs). The therapist was interested in the change in my scores, although they were skeptical that I was remembering them correctly. I didn't know how to explain the years-long obsession with MBTI et al on the forum ... I knew exactly what all of my scores were.

[7Wannabe5]

The sheer number of spreadsheets in my files was certifiable.

Yeah, I can so relate. We are soon approaching the time of year when I wonder once again why I have the world's most complicated tax return combined with such a pathetically low income. Like I am attempting some sort of record for (schedules filed)/($ earned.) I just thank the Goddess that I have trained myself well enough over my years of perusing organization-system and minimalist-living books that I always know where my crypto keys and similar documents will be located. OTOH, there have been years of such distraction and self-imposed-chaos that I have literally forgotten that I did some W2 work somewhere back in the mists of last March through June. Our poor ENTP forum-mate Frita is probably even going to have to consider that whole income from seafaring section that I am happy to be able to skip over along with free-housing because practicing minister.

I hope that this change has been mostly interesting for you, and that you continue to recover in the direction of growth that you prefer. I know a few humans who might be tempted to thump me on the head if they believed it would render me less "flaky."

[guitarplayer]

@jennypenny this is fascinating! Thinking of this situation just now, I makes me want to reconsider the sort of lifestyle @Ego leads where there is a fresh start every 1-3 years, this way one can lay down new systems in place according to what's needed. Appreciate this sort of life is not for everyone.

[jennypenny]

Saw neurologist again yesterday. It turns out that your brain structure can determine how good you are at forming habits (we discussed it because of the changes I'm experiencing). If a person's brain is not wired in a way that promotes habit development, decision making and decision fatigue can become serious problems.

It made me wonder if P vs. J is partly determined by how well one's brain forms habits. Maybe MBTI isn't necessarily measuring a preference/disdain for optionality but rather one's ability to habitualize most decisions to clear the deck for better decision making capacity overall.

[7Wannabe5]

It made me wonder if P vs. J is partly determined by how well one's brain forms habits. Maybe MBTI isn't necessarily measuring a preference/disdain for optionality but rather one's ability to habitualize most decisions to clear the deck for better decision making capacity overall.

Yes, I think this is true, but these are so highly inter-related might just be a matter of perspective. I mean, there is an opportunity cost in forming a habit or clearing a deck, so J decision-making capacity might only be "better" at the level of Keep It Simple Stupid or it might be highly functional.

I am ridiculously (98%) N, but also pretty strongly P, so majority of humans are more J than me, even if they test P. One environment in which this has been exhibited so strongly that it serves as a metaphor for me would be gardening or permaculture. So, my picture/stereotype of somebody who is quite J is a human "killer" operating a chainsaw and obliterating my option to keep this tree or that tree in my design as he goes. My picture of myself in this situation is kind of like a soft mammal Beatrix Potter character standing on the sidelines and wringing her hands together in mild dismay. OTOH, because I am self-aware enough to know that I err on the side of big picture, indecisive, absent-minded, abstracted, optimistic, and soft-hearted, I sometimes value a certain amount of this kind of behavior. I also frequently tell myself that I need to work on developing more of my own "killer" J energy, but it's difficult in pretty much the same way that developing inner Party Person would be for somebody who is highly introverted.

Habit formation can often initially be towards goal achievement, but eventually it will always tend more towards maintenance activity. And most maintenance activities are in alignment with conservative "killer" energy. For example, weeding a garden is often accomplished within a habitual structure, and this activity requires identifying a territorial boundary and what should be allowed to live within the boundary vs. what should be killed or removed outside the boundary. Another obvious example might be the process of doing clutter-control. Rapidly sorting into just two categories of TRASH vs. KEEP would be very basic J. Not being able to get started because overwhelmed with possibilities would be very basic P. Sorting at reasonable pace into reasonable number of categories would be towards functional splitting of the difference. Habit formation is similar process, but applied to time or order of operations rather than space and stuff. For example, Lawrence Sterne in what might be considered the first Modern novel, "Tristram Shandy", creates a protagonist who knows exactly when he was conceived, because his father had formed the habit of having sex with his mother on the same day of the month that he wound all the clocks. This is the modern "cheeky" perspective of P on stereotypical modern J behavior.

[Frita]

I had a pretty bad head injury last spring. I still have lingering issues but I'm considered mostly recovered. I retook many of the personality tests discussed on the forum, and my results are different than before….

It's hard to have a life (environment, habits, social roles) that's set up for one personality and suddenly have a different personality. Not everything is different but enough to make it hard to navigate life right now.

Adjusting to a “new normal” (and even that term) can be challenging. I have known a couple people with TBIs who also experienced personality changes post-recovery. I can understand how that is hard. What have you found helpful?

I think that MBTI can shift to the middle as one ages, recalibrate, balance. My ET have done that more easily than the NP, yet the latter could/have produce(d) the most personal growth.

Our poor ENTP forum-mate Frita is probably even going to have to consider that whole income from seafaring section that I am happy to be able to skip over along with free-housing because practicing minister.

Huh?

[jennypenny]

Habit formation can often initially be towards goal achievement, but eventually it will always tend more towards maintenance activity.

As I understand it, habit formation doesn't necessarily happen during the pursuit of a goal because there is intrinsic motivation. Habits form either when we deliberately try to form habits or when we repeatedly perform tasks for which we have minimal to no motivation.

Things like lost opportunity cost come from what we choose to habituate, not habituation itself. Habituation is an efficient use of brain fuel regardless of how one chooses to use their new found brain space.


@Frita--I'm ok, just different. I'm trying to be fascinated by the difference instead of frustrated.

[7Wannabe5]

Huh?

There's a specific section in the IRS 1040 instruction manual that is only relevant to income earned from seafaring. My attempt at humor was based on your recent generalist adventure as part of sailing crew potentially complicating your tax situation in manner that my generalist forays into income earning often do. For better or worse, the fact that my father was an expert on tax law kind of renders associated documents almost like Torah in my childhood.

As I understand it, habit formation doesn't necessarily happen during the pursuit of a goal because there is intrinsic motivation. Habits form either when we deliberately try to form habits or when we repeatedly perform tasks for which we have minimal to no motivation.

Gotcha. I think I would use "purpose" or "vision" or "mission" for something mostly intrinsically motivated. I use "goal" more when there are metrics that can be spreadsheeted or tracked and graphed whatever my motivation. Some other words I might sloppily swap around with "habit" would be "practice", "routine", "schedule", or maybe even "heuristic" or "algorithm."

Things like lost opportunity cost come from what we choose to habituate, not habituation itself. Habituation is an efficient use of brain fuel regardless of how one chooses to use their new found brain space.

I agree that habit formation is related to efficiency in the realm of decision-making. Because I have been self-aware about my NP and/or ADD tendencies for many decades, I almost always follow at least a morning routine of habits in order to maintain my lifestyle/environment without having to constantly make decisions about matters such as "When will I do the dishes?" or "Where do I keep the scissors?" One of the reasons I suck at weekly, as opposed to daily, routines is that a weekly routine is much more difficult to habituate. I'm not sure where this falls on S/N vs J/P, but the humans who can't not notice things in their environment may have as much difficulty with efficient routines as the humans (like me) who are unlikely to notice things in their environment. For example, if the dishes just keep piling up until you have nothing to eat on vs. you can't let one dish sit by the sink without immediately washing it vs. you do the dishes after dinner each evening.

However, I would say that there is an inherent opportunity cost associated with habituation itself, because you could always potentially make a better decision than your current habit/practice based on updated information or changing factors at play. For example, I changed my dishwashing habit from evening to morning when I lived in a household with young adults who frequently dirtied dishes after I was in bed. IOW, analogous to why there is an opportunity cost in only updating your portfolio once/year vs. once/week. This opportunity cost exists even if the expense associated with avoiding it is greater.

Another cost inherently associated with habit formation is the increasing possibility of negative second order effects. For example, if I decide that my habit will be a certain form of exercise, and I ignore feedback indicating too much stress on a joint. Doing a different form of exercise each morning would be more likely to contribute to resiliency, but would also be much more difficult to efficiently habituate. Eating lentil soup for dinner is good. Eating lentil soup for dinner every night for twenty years will eventually create a groove with potential for bad. My extremely J mega-millionaire friend was the poster boy for this sort of rare compulsive dysfunction. Compulsive dysfunction is much rarer than impulsive dysfunction, but it can also be deadlier. For example, impulsive over-eating might kill you over 30 years, but compulsive under-eating might kill you in 3 years.