What is a good learner car? (as in learning to fix and maintain yourself)

All the different ways of solving the shelter problem. To be static or mobile? Roots, legs, or wheels?
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loutfard
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Re: What is a good learner car? (as in learning to fix and maintain yourself)

Post by loutfard »

Answering my own question about an electric learner car, the Mitsubishi i-MiEV/Peugeot iOn/Citroën C-Zero looks very promising:
- up to 14 years old now
- super compact
- high mileage
- parts relatively easily available, shared with gasoline relatives
- stable electronics, mostly shared with gasoline relatives
- simple electrical system with little or no encryption/DRM/..
- DIY battery rebuilds known and fairly well-documented

SouthernAlchemy
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Re: What is a good learner car? (as in learning to fix and maintain yourself)

Post by SouthernAlchemy »

I'm asking about the point where a car is not something you need&outsource&dispose but something you want&insource&takecareof. I suppose the @Sclass would answer with the S-class. Are there others? Classic cars? The Geo Metro? A DeLorean?
@Jacob - did you ever find a car to bond with? After a few decades of wrenching, my experience is that you'll bond with whatever car that you start working on and learning about. This can go on for a while and it will be a fun challenge, but at some point the issues will overwhelm and annoy you. Not very Zen at all. Here's my experience through the decades: 70's - (through watching my dad) - simple cars, easy to work on, but poor quality and general reliability mean there is always something to fix. 80's- fuel injection and rudimentary emissions control add complexity and quirkiness but I have (somewhat) fond memories of 80's era cars. 90's - somewhat standard, though untested, emissions control systems mean a lot of time is spent trying to figure out why the Check Engine Light is on and swapping out various emissions components and sensors. 00's - manufacturers are loading up on electronic gadgets. The gremlins come standard. This is as far from Zen as it gets for me. Teens - this is where I am now. My miles are low and quality is generally good so it's pretty much basic maintenance. Sadly, the car is now just another household appliance.

All that being said, and at the risk of putting your hard earned FIRE reputation in jeopardy, I'll suggest an air-cooled Porsche 911 as the answer to the question above. There is a huge and mostly helpful online community, easily available parts and information, they are a blast to drive and they are pretty easy to work on. I don't think there is a more passionate (though sometimes annoying ) group of car owners out there.

You'll probably want a Targa due to headroom concerns :D

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Sclass
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Re: What is a good learner car? (as in learning to fix and maintain yourself)

Post by Sclass »

:lol: well I did say find a car that has a big following and that has failure modes everyone has figured out. The air cooled 911 community is just that. Those cars are solved. And they have good parts availability for 40+ yo vehicles. They’ve also appreciated for years though the market seems to be finally flattening out.

They are quite robust and durable cars once sorted out. I remember back in the late 80s my friend (rich kid in college) traded in his Ferrari 308 for a 911 because of reliability issues. He needed a car he could drive everyday to school. I wasn’t a big fan of the oil cooling but I must say the engines are tough as nails. It was designed for the rigors of racing.

I know quite a few owners through the Pelican Parts (porsche + Mercedes parts shop) groups in Los Angeles. After riding in a bunch of the cars I can say it isn’t my thing. Too loud and not terribly good in LA traffic. But yes, if you can find a beater to work on you can likely keep one going for a long time with modest costs if you DIY.

A younger Sclass had eyes for a 911SC in 1988 but it’s a dream I gave up on. It’s funny how that happened to a lot of things I wanted over time. It seemed like so much money back then. Now a nice example can be had for $60,000 which is affordable for me now considering I’m shopping for Lexus RX hybrids now. But those dreams are over kind of like owning the Lego Millennium Falcon.

SouthernAlchemy
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Re: What is a good learner car? (as in learning to fix and maintain yourself)

Post by SouthernAlchemy »

not terribly good in LA traffic
As I typed 'a blast to drive', I pictured Jacob, his head sticking out of an old Targa while sitting in Chicago traffic, and almost had to delete that as a selling point.

bryan
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Re: What is a good learner car? (as in learning to fix and maintain yourself)

Post by bryan »

I'll throw in my 2c!

2004-2006 t1n Dodge (Mercedes) Sprinter! It's served me well so far for years and there is no repair that I've needed a mechanics help with, yet.

About 27mpg. Great to have for transporting things. Love sitting up high, higher than SUVs and most pickups.

The only time you might need to jack the van is to take off the wheels. For all other work, there is ample room underneath to slide and roll around. The engine bay is very spacious. There is a very active forum and there is basically a short list of well-known and solved problems/maintenance for the van. The van has good parts support because of it's commercial uses (more high roof van competition came in the 2010s) and the value has held up because of #vanlife. Other than the short list of well known issues, the van has a reputation for running without problem as long as you do correct and regular maintenance. You can inspect a used sprinter and quickly know if it is a worthwhile purchase.

Cons: a standard garage is too short for the sprinter to live inside. Road noise is pretty loud w/o modifications. Has a bad factory paint job (check how bad the rust around the windshield is, at least).

Maybe another, even older diesel truck/van would work well too.. it's pretty easy to make biodiesel or run veg if the engine/emissions system can take it (I wouldn't run straight veg in the sprinter..). The 2007+ sprinters have a newer engine along with DEF, etc, and most of the regulars in the forums seem to agree that the 2006 is the van to own.
Sclass wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2024 7:29 am
The catalyst issue is interesting. I think that it is not as hot now since the price of the catalytic metals has plummeted recently. However yes, Gen 2 is the favorite of cat thieves.
My sprinter did have it's cat stolen as well. Luckily comprehensive+collision only costs ~$400 for a year, so I've had that and it was a covered repair.

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loutfard
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Re: What is a good learner car? (as in learning to fix and maintain yourself)

Post by loutfard »

An EV learner car is becoming much more realistic by the day:

- The Mitsubishi iMiev now has excellent high voltage battery recelling documentation.
- Great progress is being made on reverse engineering the Nissan Leaf's high voltage battery management system.

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