Survival

[jacob]

• What are some best practices around water access and storage in an urban setting?
• What medical supplies would go the farthest in an urban setting? So, less of a setting a broken leg in a forest and more of having 3 months of prescription drugs available at any given time, etc.

Water is heavy and bulky but 1 week's worth for 1 person would fit under the bed. (This is also not the worst place to put it. In case of a fire, pour it over your head before running out.) I have waterbricks (google it) which cost money but are very convenient. They're stackable (you could even build a table out of them) and easy to carry. When we go camping we just grab a couple. I'd suggest staying away from "cheap and easy" solutions like bladders that go in the tub or literal plastic bags of water.

The reason to store water is that during an disaster, especially in an urban setting, the surface water maybe be contaminated with all kinds of things. Gasoline from ruptured tanks, overflowing sewage, cans of paint, solvents, etc. That kind of contamination is not easy to filter out or boil away(*). I do have a Berkey filter and some purification pills, but that's a last resort. Another reason for storing is that it'll buy you time before you have to start "hunting" for water.

(*) Proof of concept. Run a bottle of cheap vodka through the filter and see if it turns "vodka into water". (It doesn't!) Now imagine instead of ethanol it had been paint remover or antifreeze in the water ...

As for medical supplies, just more of what you generally use. For me it's floss, for others it's insulin. Of course, a big killer in a disaster situation is that otherwise minor problems easily become major problems. Several examples of pregnant women dying from otherwise treatable conditions under new SNAFU anti-abortion laws is a good example of how to think about the no-doctor risk. Lack of masks or mask usage during the pandemic is another example of dying from something that was otherwise preventable. There's a remote Norwegian island in the Arctic that famously require you to have your appendix preemptively removed if you go to live there---this is also something long-distance sailors seriously consider before setting off. This suggests being extra careful which again suggests being well practiced which again suggests making various practices part of your lifestyle rather than something that is "kept in the basement" or on the bookshelf (or someone else's basement or bookshelf).

[Sclass]

In my backyard biodiesel days I thought about getting an IBC tank (275gallon) for fuel. These can be sourced cheaply from food manufacturers. Sometimes free. Just get one that contained something edible like high fructose corn syrup and rinse it well. They’re sold on Craigslist all the time for very little. My water solution (earthquake country) is just keeping an extra four bottles for my water cooler as a buffer. I rotate through it so it doesn’t get old. I recently dumped my mom’s water cache from the 1970s and there was interesting black algae floating around in it. I also noticed the 5 gallon glass bottles got etched on the inside by the water. Likely a reaction over fifty years of storage in our basement.

[7Wannabe5]

Speaking of the strategies not being mutually exclusive.

I absolutely agree. What I was getting at was more towards what I have learned about myself from my experience of being in various situations. What you can/could do is not necessarily what you will do. The model of the Three Instincts in the Enneagram speaks to this.

The three Instincts (often erroneously called “the subtypes”) are a third set of distinctions that are extremely important for understanding personality. A major aspect of human nature lies in our instinctual “hard wiring” as biological beings. We each are endowed with specific instinctual intelligences that are necessary for our survival as individuals and as a species. We each have a self-preservation instinct (for preserving the body and its life and functioning), a sexual instinct (for extending ourselves in the environment and through the generations), and a social instinct (for getting along with others and forming secure social bonds).

And here is a description of Type 5 (roughly INTJ/INTP)who is acting or innately more in accordance with Self-Preservation instinct.

The Castle Defender: Home is one’s castle and a place to retreat from the world and feel safe. This subtype is concerned about having enough supplies, which can lead to hoarding. Or the opposite may be a true, with a lack in allegiance to any geographical location, forever traveling or moving from place to place.

Mind blown! Here is a description of a Type 7 (roughly ENFP/ENTP) who is acting or innately more in accordance with Self-Preservation instinct.

The Gourmand: This subtype likes to enjoy an abundant lifestyle within family and a circle of friends. The emphasis is on sharing good ideas and conversation, preparing elaborate meals or dining out, and planning fun projects. This subtype can have problems with over-talking, over-eating, and over-stimulation.

What?!?! That doesn't sound like a very good plan for surviving the apocalypse! However, since I am more towards eNTP or XNTP, this makes me the sort of human most likely to be able to create a yummy meal for 8 drop-in refugee guests out of whatever random assortment of 5 ingredients are scavengeable in any situation and/or instantly brain-storm 7 functional alternatives to toilet paper. IOW, splitting the difference between The Castle Defender and The Gourmand = The Happy Camper or The Resourceful Hostess or as more rudely expressed by an eSTJ partner, The Cheap Date. Therefore, I am an extremely valuable survival-buddy for anybody who is a more rigid type. That's also why the more rigid types usually have to chip in relatively more money and/or hard resource stockpile and/or security services when in balanced relationship with me; I inherently bring more fungibility than they do, especially since I gave up the rigid practice/perspective of monogamy after realizing that the enforcement/maintenance expenses are largely borne by females in our culture. IOW, for a heterosexual female, the practice of monogamy bears a similar sort of expense/erosion burden as the practice of damming/hoarding water under a plastic canopy against a downhill slope in the PNW, if examined from a systems perspective such as permaculture.

https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/how- ... tem-works/
https://www.narrativeenneagram.org/inst ... -subtypes/

[guitarplayer]

I store my water bottles full (which has the added advantage of allowing them to not stink after a while, and to have the potential nasty chemical leech into water that I most probably won't drink)

You mean bottled water for store as opposed to a large container filled with tap water?

[Jean]

I buy PET bottles from time to time when i forgot to bring a bottle with me, and then, I keep those bottle at home full of tap water.
When I need one, I empty one, and fill it with new water.

[jacob]

To summarize the situation/recommendations, there are essentially 4 strategies to OP's how to deal with a SHTF situation.

• Read the tea leaves and be gone long before TSHTF. More precisely, when the theater is on FIRE, be near the exit, don't hesitate, and beat the crowd for the exit. Always be moving or ready to move in a direction away from "theaters".
• Establish or join a community of sorts. This can be romantic partner(s), family, ride or die friends, and/or mutual support networks that can be formed both deliberately (before TSHTF) or spontaneously (after TSHTF). The presumption is that someone in the network will have the resources (supplies and skills) that you or others lack.
• Increase self-reliance. This means storing enough supplies and learning the relevant skills. I find that this integrates very well with ERE as it is also a way to live efficiently. (This is also why "prepping" is but a side-effect of ERE-WL7.) Contrast with conventional prepping wherein people buy a bunch of supplies only to store them in the basement and never use them, or focus on cool but rarely-used skills like making fire with a bow drill.
• Wait for the government to arrive. This is the default choice and by far the most popular. It's quick and easy to do nothing, but also not a very good strategy for when TSHTF. In prepper lingo, "zombies" or the "zombie apocalypse" is a dog whistle for this category. When preppers talk about the zombie apocalypse, it's not a joke but rather what to do when the unprepared get desperate.

Speaking of the strategies not being mutually exclusive.

I absolutely agree. What I was getting at was more towards what I have learned about myself from my experience of being in various situations. What you can/could do is not necessarily what you will do. The model of the Three Instincts in the Enneagram speaks to this.

I've thought a lot about the various strategies. I've even lived a couple of them and I have my preferences. While they're not completely mutually exclusive, there are aspects of each strategy that precludes the other strategies to various degrees. If seen as a Venn diagram, it is impossible to create complete overlaps in which one category becomes a subset of another. You cannot have roots and wings at the same time---each is useless or at least incredibly "wasteful" when paired with an incompatible substrategy. One might say that each strategy is a specialization of a given kind. However, given the preclusivity, the generalized approach contains heterotelic goals and as such doesn't have synergy. This means it is more expensive in terms of resources and effort. This is all but a theoretical way of saying that maintaining a bunker AND a second residence AND transportation between the two AND communities in both places AND the requires government papers is [much] increases the effort required in a superlinear (2+2>4) way.

I do agree to the point of near certainty that one's preference for a given solution very likely comes down to personality (temperament + experiences). This also makes it harder or easier for some to sign onto a given strategy than others. And it makes is much harder to change strategy.

[J_]

I do have a second residence for more than a decade. So I can switch to the non “shit hits the fan” residence. I always use one of the (many) public transport types to travel between them. I do not need a car.
The extra running costs are more than only one residence but only 20 % of the running costs of my main residence. Because the second is just a minimal apartment but enough equipped and with sufficient clothing and food storage.

And… I like the yearly switch between residences, the complete other natural and societal surroundings are inspiring. I aspire even to three locations, which I practise now for seven years. This third one is a rented one. Each year I decide if I will rent it for about 5 weeks.
So as a side effect of my way of living I got some choice in survival locations.

[ThoreauGoing]

Love the suggestion for IBC tanks and for the water rotation strategies. I'm not terribly keen on plastic stored water so I'm not sure if I would cycle through a supply naturally. I'm also in a living space where if I have a catastrophic leak then I might be on the hook for damages. Still, some good strategies that are reasonable given the circumstances. Combining with a filtration system should the stored water get algae (vs. other urban contaminants) is a decent belt and suspenders approach.

I think for healthcare, prevention is the first priority followed by stabilizing any issue until access to trained medical personnel with equipment is available. From my perspective, the first screen is "What would I or a family member need to lose access to in order to be rendered an invalid?" Then it's about treating most likely medical situations like diarrhea.

I read through some of the LDS Preparedness materials. I suspect that a lot of survival preparedness is based in fantasies of competency. Many of the survival materials online is a combination of build your stash and get your guns to protect said stash. I think this is largely a consumerist mindset responding to the fantasy of a survival situation. I much prefer the competency, knowledge and assimilated practices being suggested here of a producer mindset.

In my own fantasies I tend to imagine conditions where mutual aid and cooperation will be emphasized. I think this is more likely in the early points of a crisis where resources may be available but the distribution networks are disrupted. I suspect that the individualist training of our present society will feel a lot more risky and that our long history of small tribe living would be our natural response. This might be hopelessly naive. My viewpoint has some good fictional representations in Kim Stanley Robinson's Ministry of the Future where people are often being surprisingly decent during crises. It also introduced a wet bulb event as a survival scenario I think much of the world is completely unprepared for.

[7Wannabe5]

While they're not completely mutually exclusive, there are aspects of each strategy that precludes the other strategies to various degrees. If seen as a Venn diagram, it is impossible to create complete overlaps in which one category becomes a subset of another. You cannot have roots and wings at the same time---each is useless or at least incredibly "wasteful" when paired with an incompatible substrategy. One might say that each strategy is a specialization of a given kind. However, given the preclusivity, the generalized approach contains heterotelic goals and as such doesn't have synergy. This means it is more expensive in terms of resources and effort.

Yes, but the qualification of at the same time is necessary. Otherwise, we see that a Maple tree has roots and samaras, and that a human has an umbilical cord and legs. Therefore, it is not the possession of both capabilities at the same time that best increases resilience, but rather the practice/perspective of the transformation primed for appropriate signal from the environment.

This is all but a theoretical way of saying that maintaining a bunker AND a second residence AND transportation between the two AND communities in both places AND the requires government papers is [much] increases the effort required in a superlinear (2+2>4) way.

It is also the case that the "possession" or "territoriality" inherent in concept of "complete Venn diagram overlap" which lends much of the expense to the example as suggested, when all that is strictly necessary is a contract or set of contracts or the skill of contract formation. For example, you and AxelHeyst could contract to provide each other with bunkerage in the case of any adverse event that requires evacuation of one of your bunkers, but not the other.

Options that cross international borders are also not very difficult to create these days. For example, one of my partners had formed a long-distance internet-based relationship with a Ukrainian woman prior to emergency situation and offered her refuge for around a year until she was able to find employment in the U.S. However, it is the case that one's ability to find "refuge" within another's "territory" often follows the rules-of-thumb applied to who will pick up the bill for restaurant dinner. IOW, there is an expense and a waste and a good deal of friction associated with everybody always and everywhere insisting on "being the Daddy", yet also a clear risk for any individual who is strictly dependent on "Daddy" in any form, inclusive of "The Government" in an emergency situation.

I have actually been recently focusing on the Whorl as a design element/framework, so would more generally note that the appearance of Venn diagram overlap or territorial encompassment or maybe even developmental hierarchy may depend on whether you are observing the end of the hotdog that is in your mouth, protruding from the end of the bun, or somewhere in between and covered with coney sauce.

[oldbeyond]

@jacob: I generally agree regarding temperament and that any path you choose will come with its limits. My point was more that even largely going for roots like you have done, you still have some wings. Your skills, fitness, the community you’ve built etc. If the pogroms towards scani phds commence, you’d still be in a better place than most (even if you’d loose a lot by giving up ere hq).

[J_]

At some stage in ones life you have a choice* where and how to live. @ego is a proponent to be as free as possible, @oldandbeyond chose to investigate how to live on a sailing boat, @jacob and @jennypenny are settled in fixed places as far as I know.
All have pro’s and contra’s. With use of the lens of climate where (people with western constitution) cannot survive places with:
risks of long lasting heat, wildfires
regular hurricanes /regular very heavy storms
flooding
long lasting smoke/bad air quality
too little sunshine per year.

I live in a part of a (dense inhabited) small country just about the (now) sea-level. Other parts of the country are below sea-level, the eastern parts are above. Recently I read that people move to the higher parts already because of their fear for flooding. The country has a history of very developed (applied) knowledge to defend against (rising) water. Most defenses are geared to the sea (Atlantic ocean), but the last decades also geared to defend against the risks of flooding from rivers: the Rhine, the Maas and the IJssel. Most recently (local governments+ our regional water-governments) started to build reservoirs in and around towns to buffer heavy rainfalls. For the same reason the pump-capacity of pumping out the many canals has increased.

So I take the risk to have a residence in a town just at sea-level. I am on the look-out to change from town-house to a (smaller) apartment (in the same town because the roots I have build there). That seems easier (more acceptable) to lose in case of a disaster.

To have another possibility to survive a disaster in the lowlands I have a second residence in mountainous part of Europe ( where I have build also some roots). I have this village thoroughly checked against flooding, avalanches from snow or mud, or wildfires. The air quality on this height of 1200 m (4000 ft) is stable and good.

Those residences are 1000 kilometer (620 miles) from each other. So reachable by all kind of transport even mostly bike-able.

To conclude: I have a combination of Roots and Wings. But I know: disasters cannot always be dodged

*there are stages/situations which limit a choice: having (little) children, if you want to care for family, if you are have financial ties or if you are not physical mobile to mention some

[chenda]

To have another possibility to survive a disaster in the lowlands I have a second residence in mountainous part of Europe ( where I have build also some roots). I have this village thoroughly checked against flooding, avalanches from snow or mud, or wildfires. The air quality on this height of 1200 m (4000 ft) is stable and good.

Those residences are 1000 kilometer (620 miles) from each other. So reachable by all kind of transport even mostly bike-able.

To conclude: I have a combination of Roots and Wings. But I know: disasters cannot always be dodged

This imo is by far the optimum strategy.

[jacob]

I've moved around and lived in many different places myself. When I say roots I don't refer to the foundation or walls of a house but whether people there know me or whether I know them. Where I live now holds the record of me living in the same place for the longest time (10 years) but I would not say I have roots here. I've noticed the distinct difference between "winged" people like me and people who are so rooted they either never left the valley or quickly returned to it even if they could have moved anywhere. Their roots in the community go wide and deep. Mine not so much. This is also why I don't think two+ residences or snowbirding solves this problem.

[Biscuits and Gravy]

Who are some outed Texans on the forum?

Herpaderp, that’d be me. Stuck here in Houston for the next 13 years because of a divorce decree. We had two long power outages just this past summer (one lasted over a week, but that’s because our weatherhead* was taken out by a particularly vindictive tree limb), and summer here is 90-100°F with an average humidity of nearly 90%. The first thing you fall back on is your neighbors (mine ran an extension cord into my bedroom window so I could at least have a fan at night), then you rely on (or support) friends and family. Whoever has power or a generator is awarded the joy of hosting everyone else’s children and old folks while able-bodied adults work on repairs, clear tree debris, and curse the government and the weather equally. It ain’t so bad. The first few days feel like camping, and everyone is all “howdy ho, neighbor, don’t this just take it all!”, but people start getting pissy much longer after that. It really sucks with young kids, I can tell you that. But you survive, or you don’t, I guess. What you really want in an emergency are good neighbors (and good relationships with those neighbors) and close proximity to family (I biked to my mom’s house once to check on her because phones were down and driving wasn’t possible due to flooding and debris). The government is pretty useless for the first few days. Here in Texas we have our grocery store, H-E-B, that is out distributing water during emergencies before the government has even opened their Outlook inboxes. And people just throw water at you. I swear. A hurricane blows through and you finally open the door to assess the damage and there are like five neighbors on your porch asking you if you need water. As bad as the gd mosquitoes and roaches.

The only tic I’ve developed from repeated hurricanes + wet bulb + power outages is that I hate to see my freezer full. The power goes out, you take a lot of cold showers, boil water on your gas stove, chide the kids about how soft they are, eat some canned beans, and life goes on. Or, again, doesn’t, depending on your luck.

*On our RENTED home, because I refuse to own a home in this hurricane hellscape. Let the landlord lose his sleep at night.

[chenda]

*On our RENTED home, because I refuse to own a home in this hurricane hellscape. Let the landlord lose his sleep at night.

It is surprising more people don't do this. Makes much more sense if you are in an area prone to natural disasters.

[jacob]

Here's a WBT calculator: https://www.weather.gov/epz/wxcalc_rh

Under normal weather conditions, WBT is quite a bit below the regular (dry) temperature and also below the so-called heat index.

Note that WBT 95F is the maximum limit for a young (5<yo<65), healthy, fit, and resting person. It can be quite a bit lower the less boxes one checks. The WBT max is where even a fan or shade no longer helps to escape. A/C will still provide some relief (even if only available briefly) as long as the power is on.

For a fictional account, read "Ministry of the Future" which starts out with a wet-bulb event. An in my opinion more realistic cli-fi book is "The Deluge".

[Henry]

I was talking to my plumber about power outages and flooding and things of that nature and he says something like "I remember during Hurricane Sandy..." and it got me thinking again that they name these murderous storms after Olivia Newton John's character in Grease so men of my generation or at least men like me of my generation think about the first they time they played with themselves as opposed to impending danger. So if FEMA hired me, I'd say listen, the names of these hurricanes is fucking everything up. You got to give them names that reflect the danger. The Medieval Period called it for what it was, The Black Plague. We need to get back to that. Like Hurricane Housefucker or Tropical Storm Drownyourmeemawsfatsorryass. You name it Irene and you think of your Aunt who would cut SBD's during Thanksgiving desert not something that will blow your trampoline into the next state.

[chenda]

SBD's

What are these ?

You're right though. It's like having a gangster called Simon. No one would take him seriously.

[take2]

Mine not so much. This is also why I don't think two+ residences or snowbirding solves this problem.

Isn’t this highly dependent on the person? Suspect you meant it as such but for some people who are exceptionally good at being social / building a community then 10 years is more than enough time to build roots. Think a very social homemaker who’s married to someone who gets displaced for work every 5-10 years. In theory such a family could have multiple geographical locations to rely on.

Alternatively a couple who are each from different countries but choose a third to establish roots. Keeping in contact and retaining a place in each of their home countries (whether via owned property or just social capital with those who have property).

[loutfard]

Neither of our two residences is shit-hit-the-fan resilient in the geopolitical sense, but one of them is super SHTF resilient in most every other way: well, woods, friends nearby, fertile land, ...

As Jacob says, the cost of extra roots is not to be neglected. Our summer house costs us considerably (energy/time/money/...). Even if that's totally worth it to us, it's still a considerable drag and thus a negative impact on our SHTF resilience.

In hindsight from our current position of ERE wisdom, we could have avoided most of this drag. Our main mistake was an otherwise well-executed plan was rebuilding too big a house. This oversizing cost us dearly. If we'd have to redo this from scratch, we'd buy the same plot again, fix the worst damage to the existing structures and just put up a trailer while chewing on what to do next for a year or two. That would have reduced at least the financial drag to two months of our salaries.