Journal from Korea

[Seoul]

Hello, I am a 21-year-old Korean and male. I'm currently serving in the military, and will be discharged this year.(mandatory in Korea)

I got to know the concept of ERE a month ago and just finished reading a book.
This concept has brought me a lot of good changes.

I'm majoring in polymer engineering and I'm thinking of getting a master's degree.
I am a minimalist and interested in Buddhism.
Recently, I am studying Stoic philosophy and it is quite interesting.
Also, I could easily accept the FI concept because my most important value is individual independence.

+ NUMBERS
> Calculated by exchange rate of 1$=1300₩ (Korean currency)
- My current net worth: $10000
- Debt: $3600 (expected $7000 by graduation). Interest rate is around 2%, so I'll pay it back slowly.)
- No need to pay rent until getting a job

The FIRE movement that Koreans generally think of is very different from the philosophy we talk about here. I will also talk about this in the journal.

Other people's journals that have been going on for 10 years inspire me a lot. I also want to share my stories and thoughts constantly. If you have any questions about Korea, you are always welcome. Thanks!

[mathiverse]

Welcome! I'm excited to read more!

[AnalyticalEngine]

Welcome! Very curious to hear about how the FIRE movement is different in Korea. I've noticed the FIRE movement in America has this very heavy individualist bent to it, and I've often wondered how the FIRE ideology would manifest in countries that don't have this very long history of individualism.

[Jim]

I'm also interested to learn about Korean FIRE. I think as well as individualism, we have rampant consumerism and am insane debt system here in the States. Looking looking forward to following along.

[CS]

I too am interested in this. It sounds like the pressure is so high in Korea for having the “right things.”

[Western Red Cedar]

Welcome to the forum Seoul! I'm looking forward to hearing more about your perspective. I spent a couple years living in South Korea and deeply value that experience.

[RoamingFrancis]

Welcome!

Are you familiar with Zen Master Seung Sahn and the Kwam Um School of Zen? They are a branch of Korean Buddhism that I have done some training in. My girlfriend is obsessed with Korean food and makes incredible soup.

I am fascinated to learn about KorEREa, particularly on the thread others have mentioned about individualist/collectivist societies.

[lightfruit55]

Welcome! I’ve travelled to Korea 4 times in my life. My first trip was back in the 2000s and my last trip was just last year and I do see that Korean society has evolved a lot - I see Korea as Singapore on steroids in terms of the pressure to “keep up” in so many aspects.

I’m very interested to understand more about the FIRE movement in Korea and how it may be different from the western version. Although Singapore is an Asian country, I don’t think there’s anything very “Asian” or unique about Singapore FIRE movement - it’s practically a copy/paste of the western FIRE movement and is also very mainstream in Singapore. We also have our own “small city” version of ERE also in Singapore though it is generally (and simplistically) labelled as “freeganism”.

[Seoul]

Thank you for your interest and reply. The difference between Korean and American FIRE comes from 'obsession to the average'. Koreans are especially sensitive to the average. So many Koreans constantly whip themselves and compare themselves to others. This is why Koreans spend a lot of money on education, work plenty of hours, and show world highest suicide rates. The moment he fall behind in a race with others, he perceive himself as a loser. The problem is that the race is one-dimensional. Everyone runs toward the same university, runs toward the same job, and wants the same goal. People with other dreams have to suffer severe criticism and anxiety. He must have what others have, and he must do as much as others do. This is particularly evident in children's education. Korean parents generally provide financial help even after their children grow up and get married. Even if they owe money, they buy their children's apartments, pay college tuition, and give them living expenses. On the contrary, child has to pay for the medical expenses and living expenses of his elderly parents. The elderly poverty rate in Korea is very high, which means that the amount of money children have to pay is high. Korean is forced to marry and give birth when he reaches a certain age. Recently, the number of single men and women has increased, but the vast majority still marry and have children. And those who don't do that are perceived as eccentric, losers.

For the reasons above, the Korean FIRE people think they should earn more than the American, and their retirement time is delayed further. So people think that only the rich can do FIRE. So they make excessive investments to become rich. In particular, people interested in real estate investment using leverage, because houses are the most important assets for Koreans and generally have good returns. People don't want to cut down on their living expenses because of their excessive obsession with the average. Instead, there are many FIREd people who want to get a job again due to the economic downturn because they are trying to make money quickly with risky investments.

I think i'm lucky because I found ERE and changed my mind. I have more stories about differences, but I'll tell them next reply.

[Seoul]

@RoamingFrancis
I've heard of the sects of Buddhism, but I'm not sure what the difference is from other sects. People are used to visiting nearby temples and praying, even if they are not Buddhists. In particular, atheist like me especially like Buddhist culture. Because I think Buddhism is close to philosophy. Many monks write easy-to-read Buddhist books and give lectures. Their words and lives are exemplary to people. I especially like Beopjeong. Have you heard of him? He is a person who has practiced non-possession and service all his life, and I respect him.

[rube]

Very interesting to read about these differences re. ERE / FIRE with S. Korean and other placed. I will gladly follow your journal for the next 10+ years.

[Frita]

Interesting how much Korea has changed since 1989 when I was there. Beautiful country… I am still using the rice cooker I bought. I definitely felt like a second-class citizen as a female. It sounds like that has improved(?).

[RoamingFrancis]

A Wikipedia search of Beopjeong reveals that both he and Seungsahn are connected to the Jogye Order... so there's some sort of lineage connection there.

I really like the poetry excerpt from the page:

자연의 질서에 귀를 기울이고 있으면,
마음에 묻은 때가 조금씩 씻겨나가는 것을
가늠할 수 있다.

이런 날 누구에게도,
그 어떤 것에도 방해받음 없이
적적히 앉아 있으면
그대로가 존재의 기쁨이 된다.

산방한담

Listening to the sounds of nature,
I can ponder how best
to scrub away the grime of my heart.

On a day like this,
with nothing to disturb me,
sitting alone,
I know the joy of being.

Quiet Talks in the Mountains

Have you read any of his other writings? Some of the titles that interested me are Non-Possession and India Travel Journal. Would love to know if there's something you recommend.

[ertyu]

I'm very interested in your thoughts, too. I did know that Korean society is very traditional, with a lot of pressure on young people. At the same time, mental health care is not always available. Usually, a society like that will give rise to people who decide to consciously live outside the norm - for example, Japan has famous minimalists, people who live in manga booths, and others. If you have the chance, I'd be curious to hear about any Korean minimalists you know about, or of other Koreans who have embraced their own unique lifestyle separate from the prescribed pattern.

[Seoul]

<Deferred judgment on a 'full-time job'>

After learning about the FIRE movement, my values have changed significantly. Most of these changes are positive. I no longer feel confined to the traditional way of life, and I now view life from a broader perspective. However, I also believe there are some drawbacks to embracing the FIRE movement at a young age. Here, a young age refers to an age before obtaining a full-time job.

​

I haven't yet secured a full-time job, but I have some experience with part-time work and military service. While these experiences offer some insights, they are not complete. In the East, the value of "work" has been highly regarded for a long time. Especially in East Asian views on occupations, there is a concept known as "craftsmanship spirit." This means immersing oneself completely in one's work, striving for perfection to create a masterpiece. People believed that through work, they could grow and develop. I partially agree with this perspective.

​

The FIRE philosophy encourages individuals to quit jobs they dislike and pursue meaningful work they enjoy in life. The typical thought process of FIREers proceeds as follows: <1. Obtain a regular job 2. Realize the job lacks meaning 3. Find a way to escape that job 4. Achieve early retirement through financial independence>. However, if one starts the FIRE movement before reaching step 1, they might unconsciously develop the idea that full-time jobs are boring and undesirable.

​

Since I haven't experienced a regular job yet, I don't know if I will like it or not. Many people don't enjoy their jobs, but there are certainly those who love their work. Sometimes, initially disliking one's job can change with a shift in mindset and increased immersion. The Chairman of Kyoto Ceramic, Inamori Kazuo, is an example of this.

​

Some may argue that such thinking is excessively job-centric. However, I don't simply see work as a means to exchange money and time. I believe it holds a higher, noble value. Of course, there will be times when work is stressful and feels like a waste of time. However, like Eastern values, this can be seen as part of training.

​

Of course, I may eventually find that my thoughts are unfounded once I experience a full-time job. Nonetheless, considering that it takes at least five years of work to achieve financial independence, I believe it's important to understand my perspective on work. Additionally, my views may change significantly by the time I get my first job, so I've decided not to rush into making judgments about full-time employment.

[Seoul]

@ertyu
I would recommend a minimalist youtuber, @Minimal-Park.
His name is Park Geon woo, and he used to be a guitarlist. Currently he works as a travel guide and owns fewer than 100 possessions. He is the most unique minimalist i've seen and possesses the fewest items. He has only one pair of pants and a total of 6 outfits. He walked the Camino de Santiago without a backpack and wearing only slippers. While his videos may not have English subtitles, his video quality is exceptional, you may enjoy his videos without subtitles.

[Seoul]

@RoamingFrancis
Monk Beopjeong wrote many essay books. Among them, I recommend a book called ' Be happy on your own 스스로 행복하라' This book is a collection of his representative essays. It contains his thought on various topics. However it has not been translated. I think non-possession is enough. The reason why he is respected by many people is that he lived as he said and died with non possession.

[Salathor]

Korean is forced to marry and give birth when he reaches a certain age. Recently, the number of single men and women has increased, but the vast majority still marry and have children. And those who don't do that are perceived as eccentric, losers.

I'm very interested in this journal.

But I thought Korea has the lowest birthrate in the world--I think something like 0.8 children per woman. It seems like there is virtually no pressure to marry or have children.

That said, I'm married and have two children and love being a dad very much; our question was whether to stick with two or have three.

[Lemur]

Bumping to potentially see if OP gets an email...

[ertyu]

+1, tell us how you've been OP