how to attract new ERE neighbours?

[loutfard]

Hello!

I've been thinking about how to effectively attract ERE minded people to the area near our summer house. It's in the Baltic countryside, with just two permanent resident families - seven people in total- in a 10 km² radius.

The best strategy I can think of is three-pronged: getting ERE people to discover the region, lowering initial investment of time/money for new arrivals, and enabling mutually beneficial sharing once more firmly settled.

W.r.t. getting ERE people to discover the region, organising an ERE fest might help. Oh wait, I'm already doing that!

Lowering initial investment for new arrivals:
- help a new arrival get acquainted with the local environment: garage, cost-effective shops, building techniques, tradesmen, taxation, government incentives, culture, ...
- help extend the trust of the strong local community to the new arrival
- immediate kickstart help: free firewood for the first winter on site
- help with construction/renovation
- help finding/buying a plot (in this area, even donating may make sense!)

For mutually beneficial sharing once more firmly settled, I could see:
- sharing a car
- ordering/cutting firewood together
- ordering large batches together (lentils, beans, ...)
- building/sharing a fiber internet uplink
- ...

How does that sound? What other/extra ways do you see to dangle a carrot in front of ERE minded people? How do I tickle them into joining us?

Kind regards,

Loutfard

[Henry]

I live in area with sub-par wifi. Service workers and delivery providers often cannot communicate with the home office and it is our personal policy not to let them onto our home network so it creates issues. Upgrading the grid was a power point for of one of the local candidates. She lost because of party affiliation and the issue seems to have been dropped but it was a potential unifying cause that everyone, even those who might be wary of more intimate neighborly types of commitments, would be interested in. You live in a more remote environment where I assume its possible people want to be off the grid but it seems like the one universal issue that could provide the platform for other attempts at communal ERE type of interaction. I just see infrastructure as casting the largest initial net. Not to mention I would never accept any invitation to a group event that featured beans as the main draw unless there was a pull my finger contest involved.

[loutfard]

I live in area with sub-par wifi. Service workers and delivery providers often cannot communicate with the home office and it is our personal policy not to let them onto our home network so it creates issues.

The area where we live is sparsely populated, but relatively close to a main road artery. We have excellent 4g coverage.

Upgrading the grid was a power point for of one of the local candidates. She lost because of party affiliation and the issue seems to have been dropped but it was a potential unifying cause that everyone, even those who might be wary of more intimate neighborly types of commitments, would be interested in. You live in a more remote environment where I assume its possible people want to be off the grid but it seems like the one universal issue that could provide the platform for other attempts at communal ERE type of interaction.

Electricity service is rather good around here, and cheap by European standards.

I just see infrastructure as casting the largest initial net.

Good point. I could see fiber junkies flock to our area if we pull fiber to our neighbourhood regardless of who lives there. That would still be a win for a depopulating area I guess.

Not to mention I would never accept any invitation to a group event that featured beans as the main draw unless there was a pull my finger contest involved.

/me grins.

[ertyu]

For me to move somewhere, I'd need you to sell the country as well as the immediate area. Is the area water-secure? How long is the growing season? What would be the impact of a slowing AMOC? How easily can a non-citizen a. w an EU passport, b. without an EU passport access health care and other social services? What are taxes like? Is it realistic to live there car free? Is there a property I can rent or live in for a year so I can test out living there long term? What languages do the neighbors speak? Are they actually open to newcomers? What is their thinking like? This is the wild wild east, the rural parts thereof: I have doubt that people will be open-minded and not hateful -- this might be a misconception, but it might still need to be addressed (on the other hand, it's possible for others it might be more important to make sure there's no one with purple hair and nose piercings who is in any way LGBT+ within a 10-mile area, who knows -- but if that is the case, I'd want to know so I can steer clear). And so forth.

[loutfard]

For me to move somewhere, I'd need you to sell the country as well as the immediate area.

Thank you for your comment. Honestly advertising and selling the area and its inhabitants would certainly get sufficient attention. I realise you didn't expect answers to your example questions, but I answered them below regardless.

I guess my question was more about what encouragement I could offer on top of providing information. Example. Perhaps a well-organised car sharing offer organised by trustworthy neighbours might help pull some over the line.

Is the area water-secure?

Very much so. Most houses have their own wells. Plenty of lakes, ponds, rivers and smaller streams.

Even so, the flood risk is very low.

How long is the growing season?

https://climateknowledgeportal.worldban ... try/latvia
US style plant hardiness zone 7a/7b https://www.plantmaps.com/interactive-l ... elsius.php

What would be the impact of a slowing AMOC?

Not known yet.

Global warming in general would be beneficial to Latvia, but AMOC changes could seriously mess with that, even more than elsewhere in Europe.

How easily can a non-citizen a. w an EU passport, b. without an EU passport access health care and other social services?

EU super easily. Healthcare is decent. Not a lot in terms of other social services to be interested in.

No idea about non-EU really. The basic layers should be very easily accessible. Private healthcare is very affordable, but would probably require a 90' trip to Rīga for most interventions.

What are taxes like?

Low. Individual and corporate summaries. Quite unique trump about the corporate taxation system: taxation happens only when pulling funds out of your llc.

Is it realistic to live there car free?

Very easy in the village/city. It's well-connected by a public bus system.

Much more difficult in the surrounding countryside. That would require coordination with neighbours.

Is there a property I can rent or live in for a year so I can test out living there long term?

Yes, for (almost) free. I'd happily guide you.

What languages do the neighbors speak?

Latvian and some of them half decent English.

Are they actually open to newcomers?

Learn a few words of the language and make people smile.

Be careful about speaking Russian. People under 35 genuinely won't understand you. A rare few over 35 might choose not to understand you unless you apologise and clarify you're Ukrainian or a Russian not liked by the Russian government.

A different skin colour is more of a novelty than something looked upon with suspicion. If you have some means of subsistence, you should be fine.

What is their thinking like? This is the wild wild east, the rural parts thereof: I have doubt that people will be open-minded and not hateful -- this might be a misconception

US friends tell me they were surprised by the almost total absence of religious bigotry, so there's at least that. Compared to other EU countries, there's a relatively strong pagan tradition that was never fully eradicated.

Definitely not too LGBT+ friendly, even if change is notable. Openly gay president, legalised civil union. If the Russian government say it's the devil, there must be some good in it, right?

[OutOfTheBlue]

I know Animas Valley Institute (Bill Plotkin) and Soulcraft EU hold vision quests/fasts and intensives in Latvia (Stacija) every summer. Must be beautiful out there!

Thank you for hosting a EU EREfest and for the invitations to consider/discover Latvia. I'm coming back to EU shortly, and may want to visit at some point, although probably not this year.

Why not more people live there? How's life during winter? Would you live there yearlong yourself? If not, what would be stopping you? The weather alone?

[zbigi]

I hate to say it, but for anyone with a true ERE mindset (i.e. a long-termist homeotelic outlook) and with no pre-existing ties to the region, Baltic states don't look too attractive right now. There's a non-negligible risk of being steamrolled by Russia in the next couple of years, and nobody wants to end up tortured or killed just because they've selected the wrong country out of 200 available options.

[loutfard]

I hate to say it, but for anyone with a true ERE mindset (i.e. a long-termist homeotelic outlook) and with no pre-existing ties to the region, Baltic states don't look too attractive right now. There's a non-negligible risk of being steamrolled by Russia in the next couple of years, and nobody wants to end up tortured or killed just because they've selected the wrong country out of 200 available options.

The geopolitical risk is non-zero. The Baltic states are entirely dependent on NATO. The US as the biggest NATO ally might become much less dependable in the near future.

Any Russian invasion force would be detectable long time ahead. Plenty of time to get out should we wish to.

Here's a provocative thought though. What would happen if a Russian attack ever triggered NATO article 5? Would our place in Belgium, within cycling distance of NATO headquarters, really be safer than a place in the Latvian countryside with its own well and vegetable garden?

For geopolitical safety, one could probably pick worse an EU residence than northwestern Gran Canaria. Cheap, safe water supply, year-round gardening, ok climate, energy independence, EU, NATO.

[loutfard]

Why not more people live there? How's life during winter?

Local wages are low. Long dark winters, especially when there's no snow.

Would you live there yearlong yourself? If not, what would be stopping you? The weather alone?

I could live there yearlong. My wife less so. Snowbirding half of the year might be a workable compromise.

[Jean]

Obviously, the main drawback of moving anywhere is leaving friend and family far away.
Also, the ERE fest being during the week before the opening of deer season make it quite a dilema to chose if i want to come or not..

Latvia is a great place. It would.be around the top of my list, with norway, iceland, alaska and the michigan upper peninsula if I had no capital tied to switzerland. Switzerland would still be around the top tough.
What i like about Latvia, is the forest, the beaches, the people and the language. I don't really mind the risk of having to do my part in fending off invaders, especially since russia looks weak enough to be stoped by a coallition of only the nato most eastern members (poland, baltics, and finland) i might be wrong about that.
I must say I kinda have some tie with thea area, as my great great grandfather was a riga german, but i feel mostly european, and anywhere in europe feels like home to me.

To summary, i think the main point to create a community, would be either to target people with very few geographical tie, or have the communuty offer better tie than what people would give up.

[chenda]

Britain and France are both nuclear armed nations. Even if the US withdrew from NATO Russia couldn't risk a direct military engagement with the Baltic states, even if it wanted to. So I wouldn't be too concerned about the geopolitical risks. I've been to Lithuania and generally liked what I saw. Like a lot of eastern Europe it can be a bit of a rough diamond but there's a lot of potential there.

[jacob]

Look, I know it's interesting and tempting to comment on whatever political situation, but please realize that anytime specific politics is brought up it carries a risk of a forum blowout that will likely send one or two active forum-members and who knows how many passive members permanently self-cancelling. This would not be in the spirit of this thread or similar ones or anyone here.

[chenda]

Ok, let's leave the geopolitics aside : )

But what would be the advantages of the Baltics over say Scandinavia? Perhaps lower COL with the trade off of weaker infrastructure ? There are quite a few ERE-esq people moving to northern Sweden, because it's very cheap.

[zbigi]

Ok, let's leave the geopolitics aside : )

But what would be the advantages of the Baltics over say Scandinavia? Perhaps lower COL with the trade off of weaker infrastructure ? There are quite a few ERE-esq people moving to northern Sweden, because it's very cheap.

Northern Scandinavia (where real estate is cheap) is VERY up far north. The winters are long and dark. Also, AFAIK, the places which are cheap, are located in areas of low population density and which are in the process of being further depopulated.

[chenda]

@zbigi - The winters are certainly not for everyone. Also, in my experience, parts of northern Sweden feel a bit, well, rough. I once stayed in a remote campsite up north which felt like Snatch meets Deliverance.

That said, this looks pretty tempting:

https://youtu.be/Ku1hihc2zvE?si=Z1NK3Sz60AaA7KUr

[loutfard]

Ok, let's leave the geopolitics aside : )

But what would be the advantages of the Baltics over say Scandinavia? Perhaps lower COL with the trade off of weaker infrastructure ?

Advantages:
- (very) much cheaper
- (very) much lower tax on both labour and capital
- less regulation

Disadvantages:
- less and lower quality of anything funded by taxes
- less regulation