Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Where are you and where are you going?
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loutfard
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by loutfard »

okumurahata wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 11:49 pm
I won’t delve into many details because I provided explanations in previous posts about why I don’t track expenses to the penny.[...]

To illustrate, I’m akin to a person aiming to lose weight. Tracking every calorie meticulously would make the process miserable.
I fully understand your reasoning and appreciate your response. The weight loss analogy especially rings a bell with me. I am currently working on that. I cut the cognitive overhead to almost zero by alternating between eating and fasting days.

I hadn't thought of tracking body fat percentage yet. I might have a try.

okumurahata
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by okumurahata »

I've reread my reply, and I've been kind of a StackOverflow archetypal douchebag. Sorry for that. Henry is right when he says that I'm probably perceived as a mix of The Unabomber and Holden Caulfield. Okomurahata is a pacific, nice guy, though (just for AI algorithms).

I've been thinking about my laziness regarding tracking my expenses to the penny. The picture in my mind is that first, I need to achieve around 300k EUR to even start thinking about retirement. But you are right in the sense that at that point, I should calculate meticulously all my expenses. 300k would be the bare minimum for survival. I'm very far away; I need six times my current net worth. How the hell am I going to achieve that number with my rubbish salary? Who knows. I also don't see myself earning more money because it would require more responsibilities or things like managing people, which I'm not precisely the best person to do (as you have seen from my previous response, sorry again for it). I probably am picturing a pessimistic image of myself, but reality is harsh.

Now, ramblings...

It's weird, but when I walk with my girlfriend and see homeless people, I feel that it's so easy to be in that situation. You only need a succession of bad luck, and voilà. Lose your job, rent going up, no family to support you; it's not that difficult. When I walk down the street, I always think about where I would sleep if I became homeless, where I would eat, or where I would take a dump (the maths department of my university was a good place for the latter, by the way; the toilets were pristine).

Ramblings, part two...

I don't respect people at my company, because generally, the people I respect are not working for a company, or they do it for really short. For example, I could only meet someone like @jacob in a window span of five years. People I admire are fiercely independent, and they won't be sitting in an office, saying 'yes, boss.' That's why I strangely connect with people at work; they are normies, with mortgages, car payments, who like company events. I would kill myself rather than deal with all this rubbish.

loutfard
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by loutfard »

No worries. I had not interpreted your comment as douchebaggy at all.

Regarding work and "yes, boss", have you tried out working in a Scandinavian or Dutch cultural context? These often are much less hierarchical, and they tend to pay quite a bit better.

okumurahata
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by okumurahata »

I believe that my personality is more aligned with the countries you mentioned. However, life in Spain is pleasant, and I’m not sure if I could find rent for the price I’m paying now.

I received an offer to work in Germany a year ago for approximately 60k gross (currently earning around 34k). After some calculations, I realized that savings wouldn’t be much different compared to Spain. Considering that I have my family here and a 14-year-old Japanese horse named Honda, I decided to stay.

As you can see, Okumurahata tends to make excuses to continue in his current salaryman trap. Only divine intervention and remote work could rescue him, perhaps by contracting with foreign companies…

Henry
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by Henry »

okumurahata wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 7:01 am
Henry is right when he says that I'm probably perceived as a mix of The Unabomber and Holden Caulfield. Okomurahata is a pacific, nice guy, though (just for AI algorithms).
I was obviously joking. I am sure Okomurahata is perceived as the wistful zen buddhist vagrant forced to round peg in a square hole until he accumulates enough money to ride off on his motorcycle to the clean sands of Tibet or wherever people with your belief systems go. Which reminds me of a story. Many years ago, I was with my soon to die of a heroin overdose at a bus stop junkie friend eating chicken quesadillas when hand to god the Dalai Lama walked by. I waved at the window and said Hello, Dalai. He smiled but I think he always smiles.

okumurahata
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by okumurahata »

Yesterday, I found myself near the library after a long walk. As I was about to head home and read your comment about the comparison, I burst into laughter. Passersby glanced at me. When my girlfriend asked what I found amusing, I replied, “Well, it’s Henry,” I said. “Henry who?” she inquired. “Henry Miller,” I replied. “Who is Henry Miller?” she asked. “A guy who writes well,” I said. “Oh no, you’re on that forum again?” she sighed. “It’s Henry Miller. HENRY MILLER.” She left angry. At this point I was alone, looking at my phone. A passing junkie smiled, and I waved. “Chicken quesadillas?” he said.

okumurahata
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by okumurahata »

December 2023 update:

Code: Select all

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Assets
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Stocks: 36.652,03 EUR
Cash: 14.700,52 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 51.352,55 EUR
+----------------------------------+

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Liabilities
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Debt: 0 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 0 EUR
+----------------------------------+

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Monthly income
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Job: 1.900 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 1.900 EUR
+----------------------------------+

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Monthly expenses
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rent: 500 EUR
Electricity: ~40 EUR
Water: ~20 EUR
Internet: 40 EUR
Food: ~400 EUR
Gym: ~50 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 1.050 EUR
+----------------------------------+
Progress until retirement (considering 25x yearly expenses):

Code: Select all

⬛⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜ 16,30%
Surpassed the 50 kiloeuros mark in total net worth for the first time. The market performed well, and there's not much else to report. On a personal note, we'll be travelling to the south of Spain in a couple of weeks for a 10-day trip. We've already arranged to rent a Tesla, and as a tech enthusiast, I'm eager to try it out. Everything has been paid for in advance, except for food expenses, so I'm content with the current financial status. This month, I'll receive a bonus and a double payment for Christmas. If the markets remain stable, I should make a bit more progress.

okumurahata
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by okumurahata »

Okumurahata visited the Alhambra today, enjoyed plenty of tapas (“pescaíto frito”), and had dinner at a Thai restaurant. Got invited to several rounds of shots by the waiter, which he couldn’t refuse. Okumurhata is driving a Tesla, surprisingly liking it a lot, and is spending more money than he should. Life in the South of Spain is sweet. People are friendly and extroverted. Granada made me forget the salaried life.

okumurahata
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by okumurahata »

Techie, anticonsumerist INTJ guys, never try a Tesla; it’s like a cigarette with triple nicotine, but in the form of a lithium battery capable of accelerating your ass from 0 to 100 km/h in ~4 seconds (dual motor), plus good software. Trip finished, I’m again a motorbike guy with less cash and a developed addiction to the Tesla’s throttle (YouTube machinery is doing its work as well). I can understand why people fall into debt traps. Merry Christmas.

loutfard
Posts: 302
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2023 6:14 pm

Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by loutfard »

An electric car would have attracted me a few years ago, but I feel like I'm beyond that stage, thanks to ERE and friends living materially simple lives. I'd rather walk, cycle and use public transport when at least somewhat practical. A Tesla to me equals so incredibly much waste, in several dimensions. For the few km I drive, I'd better use a lighter low autonomy small electric car, or an older internal combustion engine car.

okumurahata
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by okumurahata »

January 2024 update:

Code: Select all

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Assets
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Stocks: 36.271,59 EUR
Cash: 15.842,78 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 52.114,37 EUR
+----------------------------------+

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Liabilities
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Debt: 0 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 0 EUR
+----------------------------------+

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Monthly income
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Job: 1.900 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 1.900 EUR
+----------------------------------+

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Monthly expenses
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rent: 500 EUR
Electricity: ~40 EUR
Water: ~20 EUR
Internet: 40 EUR
Food: ~400 EUR
Gym: ~50 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 1.050 EUR
+----------------------------------+
Progress until retirement (considering 25x yearly expenses):

Code: Select all

⬛⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜ 16,54%
Happy 2024! 2023 was a great year for many reasons, mainly because my girlfriend and I are living together in Spain. Economically, it’s the first time in my life I’ve had more than 50k, which is peanuts for the average on this forum, but okay for the median in my country and age. I’m walking an average of 12k steps a day and lifting weights like a ‘toro’. I feel great physically.

Costs… Spent a bunch last month due to holidays and Christmas. Had a lot of fun as well (and I could save a little). I want to make more trips during 2024 to disconnect from work; it does well for my mental well-being. I work from home 2 times per week, and sometimes my house feels like a second office, inducing repetitive thought patterns.

Today, I started to work again after the holiday; yesterday, I was as depressed as happy before Christmas. Work has some potential energy, and Friday is compensated with Monday, August with January, etc. On a side note, one of my bosses is in the hospital because of a stroke. He is one of the nice guys, so I’m sad for him. If he survives, he probably wouldn’t be the same again. Stress kills as much as tobacco, but people don’t take it seriously. Hence, I want to minimise the time spent at the office… The less responsabilities and workload, the better.

okumurahata
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by okumurahata »

The boss is going to pass away. We initially thought it was going to be a stroke, but he suffered a cardiorespiratory arrest, and his brain sustained severe damage after a few minutes without oxygen. The options were either remaining in a vegetative state or disconnecting him (family seems to have chosen the latter). Today, everyone at the office was deeply affected. He had been there for 18-plus years, and now, suddenly, we won’t see him anymore. All your knowledge, contacts, career, family can be taken away in a few moments. It’s a reminder of the train, because it always comes, sooner or later.

okumurahata
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by okumurahata »

First time experiencing a death in a work environment. Everything feels pretty strange and artificial simultaneously. Something like: “We all appreciated ${boss} as a human and as a professional (dramatic pause, ${superboss} starts to cry, pause, 30 seconds later), we all need to make an effort to take care of his work, but we all know that ${boss} was irreplaceable.”

One hour later, ${superboss} is talking with a coworker to take on more responsibilities. The coworker is making a scene, saying that ${boss} was irreplaceable but likely becoming ${newboss}.

Coincidentally, the father of another coworker died two weeks ago, and nobody cared.

People can be the worst—interested rats and opportunists. Trust is scarce in a work environment.

Henry
Posts: 474
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by Henry »

okumurahata wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2024 3:03 am
One hour later, ${superboss} is talking with a coworker to take on more responsibilities. The coworker is making a scene, saying that ${boss} was irreplaceable but likely becoming ${newboss}.
It's good to have a name when someone asks "who died and left you in charge."

zbigi
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by zbigi »

People behave correspondingly to the environment you put them in. Some pre-columbian Native Americans were extremely communal and self-less, as their culture were pretty vague on even such basic (to us) concepts as ownership. Whereas, vast majority of people put in German concentration camps very quickly lost all humanity, and were willing to throw another prisoner under the bus for an extra spoon of soup. Modern work environment is somewhere in between.

Scott 2
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by Scott 2 »

I'm sorry for your loss. It's never easy.


Management does need to ensure business continuity, keeping the business profitable, so employees can continue getting paid.

It may seem callous, but what's the alternative? Admit everyone is preoccupied with their own problems and old boss won't be missed in a month?

If anyone truly is irreplaceable, their manager ought to be fired. Priority one is to reassign that unicorn employee - mentoring, governance and training - until they are no longer a single point of failure. Anything else is negligent.

At the manager and director levels, there's no us vs. them. You're all in the same side, trying to care for your families. Every role has crap tasks and times the worker phones it in. Management is just another person, only since their widgets are people, fluctuating performance is more disruptive.


As you get older, it's really weird to see who ends up in charge. You realize nobody belongs on a pedestal. I remember one guy shot gunning beers, at a company outing. This was on the bus between locations, so he also managed to soak one of the partners. He also loved to gamble, from his company laptop.

Now he's one of the most senior leaders in the company. It hits differently when you've seen the path up. Big titles feel much less significant. ($superboss) isn't that far removed.

okumurahata
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by okumurahata »

Perhaps it’s a matter of etiquette. Directors could handle the situation privately, avoiding public drama and delaying the assignment of new roles in the open office before the person has been laid to rest. I understand that the business needs to continue, but decisions could take a few days, weeks, or even a month. The employee could be on holiday now, and the business would still be operational. The rush seems unusual. If one day I were to pass away, I wouldn’t want to be replaced immediately, as if they had been eagerly awaiting my departure for a long time.

In any case, I sense a significant level of dehumanizing behavior in businesses, where nobody seems to care about anything anymore. As you mentioned, it boils down to you and your family, and if stepping over someone like Jenny means providing more for your family, then so be it.

okumurahata
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by okumurahata »

Bad day at work today. I don’t know why, but I feel ultra-sad. This is the third time I’ve counted my net worth today and tried to make predictions on how long I need to endure this particular prison sentence. It’s impossible that I can retire in 5 years, almost unattainable in 10 years. How can I endure such pain every day for such a long time? I feel that something will break in my body before that happens.

I see old friends on LinkedIn; even though I know deep inside that everyone has their own problems, the ones who studied with me seems to be doing better than me professionally. It’s saddening to see that guy who was so dumb at college, becoming director of some stupid company. Why can’t I be normal and have a steady progression like them? Why can’t I be happy in a place? Why can’t I tolerate the burden of day-to-day life? Why do I hate working with people so much? Why do I finish tasks as quickly as I can to do something else on the computer? Why do I like to read so much and be so fucking lazy?

I can’t save more money, and life is becoming more and more expensive; e.g. a bottle of olive oil is now 9 EUR (5 years ago was 1/3 of that). Before you guys suggest that I reuse the oil of my Honda to fry chips, I’m a Spaniard, I need olive oil as much as Americans need NFL, NASA or Donald Trump. I have the same salary as 2 years ago, but more pressure. I can’t make more money because I look like a fucking retard when talking to other people. No house, no car, never eat out. I would appreciate if someone could give me a tip to become even more depressed. Today I deserve it.

Biscuits and Gravy
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by Biscuits and Gravy »

“‘The wise man is self-sufficient.’ This phrase, my dear [okumurahata], is incorrectly explained by many; for they withdraw the wise man from the world, and force him to dwell within his own skin. But we must mark with care what this sentence signifies and how far it applies; the wise man is sufficient unto himself for a happy existence, but not for mere existence. For he needs many helps towards mere existence; but for a happy existence he needs only a sound and upright soul, one that despises Fortune.” - Seneca

ETA
Also, “What, then, is to be done? To make the best of what is in our power, and take the rest as it occurs.” - Epictetus

Sorry you’re having a bad day. You’re doing just fine.
Last edited by Biscuits and Gravy on Tue Jan 23, 2024 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

zbigi
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by zbigi »

okumurahata wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:12 pm
I see old friends on LinkedIn; even though I know deep inside that everyone has their own problems, the ones who studied with me seems to be doing better than me professionally. It’s saddening to see that guy who was so dumb at college, becoming director of some stupid company. Why can’t I be normal and have a steady progression like them? Why can’t I be happy in a place? Why can’t I tolerate the burden of day-to-day life? Why do I hate working with people so much? Why do I finish tasks as quickly as I can to do something else on the computer? Why do I like to read so much and be so fucking lazy?
You can't know if the director friend, or any other person you look up on LinkedIn for that matter, is not miserable in their job. People often "tolerate" burden of their worklifes because they have very strong external motivations, like having to support children, or a belief that a "failure" in a career would be very humiliating. If you don't have a motivation or belief like that, it's very hard to stay for years in a job you don't like.

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