Slevin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:42 pmHave you considered renting one out and trying living out of a van for two or three weeks? [...] It also never really hits price parity with just paying for a normal hotel room every time you travel, which makes it only really more convenient in terms of staying in places where there aren’t hotels (one of the main reasons climbers are like the main subgroup of people who actually live out of vans).
AxelHeyst wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:16 pmA full van build won’t hit price parity vs hotels for occasional trip use, but a ERE diy buildout of a daily driver (Honda element or even van that you actually use) definitely can. And potential yields from skills gained from the build— my understanding is there is still space in the market for van converters, for example, so potential side hustle hobby in new location after switching to the Reserves if the vanBuilding turns out funner than the vanlifing.
To be clear, I’m talking about a DIY conversion of a daily driver to also serve as a weekender [stealth] camper. I don’t plan on full time van life; to start it would probably not be more than a few days, but I’d like a build that gives me the option to scale up for weeks at a time. I like having that optionality to be able to travel for work purposes (MTG tournaments, some part time work), excursions with DW (skiing, hiking, kayaking, camping etc), and haul things like building supplies or even larger trailers if needed for various web of goals projects. Stealth is important for my use cases on the east coast and in urban areas.Slevin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:50 amDon't wanna derail for too long in someone's journal, but the Element is a bit too small [...]. Normal family vans that could fit plywood sheets used to be the sweet spot IMO, but now they also seem to cost like 20k+ for the used ones with under 100k miles thanks to the ridiculous used car prices of the past three or four years.
In terms of the specific vehicle, my original idea was to just convert my current Pontiac Vibe/Matrix. Although that might be the most economical short term, it does present some issues. For one, I’m hesitant to dump money into converting a vehicle that’s already >15 years old with 200k miles. The vehicle is very roomy for a hatchback, but it is probably too small to stealth camp for two people because essentially the entire space is taken up by a bed. A conversion could be possible with rain guards on the windows, possibly cutting a hole in the roof for a vent fan, and window covers. Space is limited but I could fit an extra battery if I had to. 4 seasons camping is possible without a heater and extra insulation if I’m roughing it, but probably not reasonable if DW is there too. Maybe I decide to go the extra mile and install a diesel heater with a diesel tank or get a gas heater and tap the main tank. Cooking and hygiene are going to be difficult (impossible) in that confined of a space. I’m guessing things like cutting a hole in the roof or drilling a hole in the gas tank will tank (no pun intended) the resale value, not that I care that much about it but it’s a consideration. All those steps (other than insulation) require as many labor hours as they would on a larger vehicle but with a worse end product for camper purposes.
The above thought process led me to consider other vehicles, primarily minivans. There are numerous examples on YouTube of minivan builds that can accommodate 2 people. I even found a Toyota Sienna build that someone outfitted with a (seated) indoor shower, kitchen, couch/bed, etc. The Transit Connect is another popular platform because of its large cargo space. In terms of pricing (used dealer, so slightly higher than private party), a used Dodge/Lincoln/Ford minivan that’s ~2015 with ~100k miles goes for around $10k, while more desirable/reliable Hondas and Toyotas go for $15k-$20k. Most get 22-25 MPG. As @Slevin points out, minivans have gotten expensive in the last few years, but so have all used cars. I bought my Vibe in 2016 for $4K (~10 years old, ~100k miles) and even if I adjusted for inflation, things are pricey today. For reference, I just checked and a 2015 Honda Fit with ~100k miles is ~$12k. 35 MPG but less cargo capacity than my current Vibe so not really feasible as a camper.
I was pretty settled on getting rid of the Vibe and replacing it with a minivan at some point next year, but then I discovered there is a 118” wheelbase version of the Promaster. These go for the same price range ($15-$20k for ~2015 ~100k miles) as Toyota/Honda minivans. A 118 Promaster is actually shorter in overall length than typical minivans but has a much greater cargo/camper capacity because of a taller, wider, and longer cargo area. Gas mileage is predictably a bit worse at ~20 MPG because of the beefier engine and chassis. It's the closest thing to an American kei van. See picture for reference (left is Dodge Grand Caravan with 121" WB, right is 118” Ram Promaster 1500):
The downside of the 118 Promaster is that the low roof means you only have 64-67” of interior height depending on floor/ceiling insulation. This is low for a fancier Promaster/Sprinter/Transit tall van build, but much higher than a minivan. I think for a weekender this is not much of an issue; DW will likely even be able to fully stand if I keep floor/ceiling insulation to a minimum. I will have to be bent over slightly, but I might add a skylight to be able to fully stand in a convertible shower area. The upside of a Promaster is that there is a plethora of DIY resources and materials for every amenity possible. I think the resale value of a converted Promaster would be higher than a converted minivan, although my understanding is that the resale value of any converted van isn’t amazing.