House hacking with friends while maintaing friendship or love

[Stahlmann]

Hi,

Let's assume I have apartament (even without mortgage, so we have 2 ways in our decision tree atm...).

How to do house house hacking without coming as scrooge and screwing up friendship?

Yea, basic idea is to offer below market rate for whole living costs, but... what's reasonable.

Scenarios:
1. Sharing everything 50/50 or costs (no rent for owner [for me or my (grand)parents] + rent for housing coop [mandatory in my country] + utilities and internet + for food everybody pays oneself)/number of people. Assuming there are 1 room for person, to create harder case: who can take bigger room with balcony... eh.

2. All costs on friend, still no rent "premium" (understood as rent for rent(i)er, just for sake of owning such valuable good as housing) for me/or my family "estate", still nice offer for friend, possible to explain to friend (but how?). Yes, it creates dynamic "I support you my friend and I don't receive nothing apart living here! We end our friendship".

...becoming evil capitalist landlord exploitator...

3. Taking a symbolic premium, rather just to have money to renovate a bit housing after friend moves out. It's starting to difficult to make such arrangement.
4. Taking a premium which would add up in total cost as 20-30% below market rate for one room in the area. It becomes business transaction and resentments can surface up very qucikly.

Polish proverb: love as brothers, count money as Jews.
Semi and extreme Jewish nationalists/religious fundamentals (or really any others...): we build trust and prosperity only within our community and trade with only outsiders.

Eh, how to live in such dog eats dog world?

BTW, normies or ekhm.. people with romantic partner tend to spam on this problem on reddit or other communities. Other cases to considerations (pls show me your reasonings ). Maybe we discussed this before, thanks in advance for the links.

BTW2, I rather belive in marriages as clan alliances (so with "perfect" ERE girl I would join accounts estates and family obligations... but perfection doesn't exist and I can't have control on other people mind, especially if we speak about parents of me and my possible wife) and when I tell this during dates I receive scary eyes. The joke is that setting was default 200 years before, concept of romantic love is relatively new. The joke, even number 0, is I'm being socieconimically rated during first miliseconds of interaction with women due to Mother Nature. Yes, I'm no snowflake and I do the same for beauty/fertility. At least, I'm trying to check if I'm over this or should I be in favour or against out animalistic drives? Ehh. I'm torn again... #thisfamousguyonthemountainwhothinksaboutworld #humanityisoverrated #intelectuallysuperior #tipsfedora #themythofconsensualsex

BTW3, the same should be for friendships as elites do.

BTW4, focus on paragraphs in the beginning, don't delete this post based on later ones pls.

Cheers

[white belt]

How to do house house hacking without coming as scrooge and screwing up friendship?

Yea, basic idea is to offer below market rate for whole living costs, but... what's reasonable.

Scenarios:
1. Sharing everything 50/50 or costs (no rent for owner [for me or my (grand)parents] + rent for housing coop [mandatory in my country] + utilities and internet + for food everybody pays oneself)/number of people. Assuming there are 1 room for person, to create harder case: who can take bigger room with balcony... eh.

2. All costs on friend, still no rent "premium" (understood as rent for rent(i)er, just for sake of owning such valuable good as housing) for me/or my family "estate", still nice offer for friend, possible to explain to friend (but how?). Yes, it creates dynamic "I support you my friend and I don't receive nothing apart living here! We end our friendship".

...becoming evil capitalist landlord exploitator...

3. Taking a symbolic premium, rather just to have money to renovate a bit housing after friend moves out. It's starting to difficult to make such arrangement.
4. Taking a premium which would add up in total cost as 20-30% below market rate for one room in the area. It becomes business transaction and resentments can surface up very qucikly.

I'm a bit confused by the question. Have you lived with roommates before? The typical roommate experience (at least in USA) is to just to split costs relatively evenly among roommates, unless there is a significant disparity in room amenities, then you mutually agree to a different split. If you own the place, then I recommend treating things more like a business and not renting below market value, assuming we're not talking about some other extenuating circumstances or long terms exchange of capital. I'd be very, very careful engaging in "capitalistic" behavior and intermingling it with friends/family unless you have some experience with such things and can clearly set boundaries/expectations beforehand. Even so, there are tons of horror stories of relationships ruined over various business disputes, so that's something to consider. Personally, I've successfully lived with roommates that were very good friends and roommates that were complete strangers. Matching temperaments/lifestyles can also be important; my best roommates were very quiet and introverted because I like my living space to be quiet and roommates to generally leave me alone. The smaller the space and the more roommates, the more possible friction that will come from it. YMMV.

[Slevin]

Sure, I “ran” (was in charge of a place for 30+% under market rate) a rental for six years with four roommates, so I have some experience here. Biggest basic thing, I would collect or expect a small cost to pay for a house cleaner once a month or something. Roommate issues I’ve had in the past have either been temperament issues (loud people when I want it to be quiet), or cleanliness issues (kitchens get the brunt of this as they are workspaces that get dirty fast, but shared bathrooms are another point of contention), and I would rather deal with the cleaning ones where I can hire somebody to mitigate the problem in a way that’s still very cost minimal (split 3-4 ways that’s quite cheap).

Realistically, you can’t outthink the issues that will happen. Issues will come up, you need to have a semi regular meetings where you can talk about stuff like that, and come up with a way of sharing them that isn’t screaming or blaming the other person. The game is not to be perfect, the game is to be self-fixing and work towards improving for everyone over time. Complications and roommate issues increase multiplicatively with the number of roommates (as the number of separate relationships expands as nC2). This starts getting bad around 4 people, so I would usually limit to 4 or less. Never allow couples to live together with you (high risk of failure with big complications, plus increases the number of individual relationships too fast) and keep the couple rules sane (yeah have sleepovers whenever you want but the person who doesn’t live here doesn’t live here).

It’s been a few years for me, so I’ve forgotten some important stuff for sure, but I think my basics were outlines above.

[Jean]

i never had issues while having couples as roommates. If the rent you charge is low, tenant will be happy, even if it's your friend. If the tenant thinks the rent is too expensive, you have a problem, friend or not. Ability to realize that he pays a low rent is an important quality in a tenant.

[Slevin]

@Jean good point. In my case I was mostly referring to young 20 somethings who didn't make particularly good choices in partner pairing. With older people or a long-term couple, probably not as much of an issue.

[Jean]

young people can be anoying. old anoying people are usually easier to tell apart. Where i live, when there is a couple, one part of the couple is evictable on short notice, and it is already known which part would have to leave in case of separation, to avoid having to discuss it when everyone is sad and angry.

[Stahlmann]

@white belt

I have never lived outside my parents' apart summer times.

I'm daydreaming about situation when my mother enables me to live in her apartment (1 big room with balcony, smaller room, kitchen, toilet, hall) which was inherited from her father. The apartment was/is "rented" to somebody who doesn't want to leave it at the moment (hence daydreaming). In times when rent was paid, it was used for living expenses for family understood as me, my mother, father (we live in house of my father lineage).

My mother loves me implicitly, so I don't see problem realizing the dream... but I would leave ekhm "young " pensioners (my mother and father) in big house of my father without additional support from the rent from my mother's apartment.

(hence elaborated cashflows analysis in first post. What's rent? Who's entitled to taking it? Am I sane in my theorethical musings? Do I put price tag on everything? Should I? Am I bad human? Is capitalism evil? etc)

Possible tenant would pay for my living costs of living in mother's apartment even we said that everything is 1/(tenant's number). Here is problem that I don't have trusted person to "house hacking". I'm rather against taking somebody from the classifieds. However, it's solvable.

Hence, currently living with parents and waiting for rich wife is semioptimal solution assuming I'm not mentally stable and need take care of my health.

I'm not sure about that moving to bigger areas in my country will change anything as I'm living in one of the biggest metro area.

Possible other solutions entail working as blue collar/menial job in Western Europe to amass some "capital" and come back to my parents' HQ to still save on the rent and think about next steps.

I've got told here that my English isn't as good as my teachers told me. This and social phobia, "sabbaticals", lack of "street smart intelligence" rather kill my chances to have semi white collar jobs in WE.

@7w5, is this offer about taking care of your mother still on the table in exchange for living in her house?

[Jean]

Ok my opinion.
The appartment belongs to your mother, so the rent belongs to her. If your parent have enough money to support you and you need it, there is nothing wrong with accepting the help, but as an adult, you aren't entitled to it.
Your parents seem to be happy to have you around. A real white collar job requires you to move to western europe, those kind of job won't hire you if you don't live there. Not being "normal" also prevented me from ever getting one, despite being in fluent in the two national language and having a engineering degree.
On the other hand, blue collar job pay quite well in switzerland. Your english is quite good, but german or french would be more usefull.
I think one of the girl working in the farm i gave you a contact for wasn't speaking any german.
Maybe english is more usefull in scandinavia or iceland?
But working somewhere blue collar pays well for a few month looks like a good idea. You could save somes thausends in a few month, and if it's just a few months, it would feel like some hollydays.