Follow-Up to $250K USA house --> How to Build a House?

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TopHatFox
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Re: Follow-Up to $250K USA house --> How to Build a House?

Post by TopHatFox »

Ppl used to build houses together all the time, the Amish still do. Not one of them could build a race car, as the skills, tools, and constraints are way more niche. You'd need CAD for every little piece as well as an entire team putting the thousands of pieces together and making sure each piece works together. A small, standard house is basically a big wooden or concrete box with some pipes, cables, pre-built appliances, and finishes sitting on a level piece of dirt. Half the hard stuff (e.g., sewage, electrical, water, internet) you don't even need to figure out cause the home just connects to the city supply.

Hispanics that don't even speak English are building houses all over South FL. Ppl make it sound like hanging sheet rock or putting in an outlet is thermal dynamics or nuclear physics. The contractors barely even show up, and a lot don't even have a GED, give me a break; It's just effort and Youtubing compounded over years. Some of them even drink beer on the job. The big annoyance is how expensive everything is, and that you never truly own your house because of property taxes; makes you just want to throw your hands up and collect a paycheck 'till the end of your days in a room or with your parent's.
Last edited by TopHatFox on Wed May 31, 2023 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

take2
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Re: Follow-Up to $250K USA house --> How to Build a House?

Post by take2 »

The example isn’t to compare the difficulty of one to the other, it’s to illustrate the breadth and depth of what you would be taking on. Perhaps a better example is “restore a classic car that you’ve sunk all your money into and need to flip quickly without ever having worked with on a car before”.

My point is everything all at once is quite different than defined projects where you pick up skills as you go. I’m also not really interested in debating with you so I’ll stop here - if you think you can do it then go off and do it. Just be aware of your limitations, the risks, and opportunity costs.

In any event I agree with @WRC and what I was saying on your other posts - renting is a better option for you until you know where you want to be.

theanimal
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Re: Follow-Up to $250K USA house --> How to Build a House?

Post by theanimal »

Where to start...construction does not necessitate the ability to speak english nor does speaking english signify intelligence.

You are right in that you can build a house. It is not very hard as you state and you can learn everything from people in the area, Youtube and books. I built my house that way and you can too. Everything (from foundation, framing, electrical etc) can be done by yourself with attention to detail, time to learn (and fail) and patience. Rural areas tend to be more lax on codes. There are also a lot more shitty houses as a result (something to be aware of if buying already built homes). Almost all areas will allow you to do the bulk of the labor yourself, with some requiring your work to be signed off by an inspector. Certain areas like big cities do indeed require licensed contractors to work on your home.

Like others have stated it's a matter of opportunity costs. I had a large amount of time off which allowed me to build a home as I saw fit. This would be a lot harder with a full time job, interest in doing some kind of start up and additional classes at night like you have mentioned elsewhere.

You seem to be hung up on the idea that there are only two forms of living accomadations: living with your parents or owning a home. There is A LOT in between and many of the people on this forum are a testament to that.

Why do you want a house? What will a house do for you that you can't do when renting? If you can provide an answer to that, then there are @Ego's questions. Why do you need a new house? Why will a already built home not suit your purposes?

There are plenty of valid reasons to do either of those (buying and/or building a home), but you haven't really provided sufficient reasoning to justify why you want to pursue them and how they fit your purposes. That is why you are getting so much push back here.

TopHatFox
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Re: Follow-Up to $250K USA house --> How to Build a House?

Post by TopHatFox »

Typically signifies IQ, because if they were high IQ & work ethic, they'd be more likely to pick up English after a few years:

110 – Foremen, clerks, telephone operators, salesmen, policemen, electricians.
100 plus – Machine operators, shopkeepers, butchers, welders, sheet metal Workers.
Below 100 – Warehouse men, carpenters, cooks, bakers, small farmers, truck and van Drivers.
90 – Laborers, gardeners, miners, factory packers and sorters.

--------

In my arrangement, I'd have unlimited time once the home is weather proof, as I'd just be working remotely in a trailer for as long as needed. Half the skills I already have from working on homes with my dad (who, btw, is one of those low-iq construction workers who barely speaks english to this day).

Already built single-family homes usually have a ton of things wrong with them, and they still cost 250K+, just so that you can spend tens of thousands more fixing the issues.

The other alternative is just throwing thousands a year of rent to a landlord, rather than directly into the principal of the home of your parent's, which you'll eventually inherit.

Bro, every time I start a thread with perfectly reasonable aspirations I get push back - don't get an MSc in CS, don't buy or build a house, don't make a startup. Like, damn, just work your cube job & die; you will own nothing & you will be happy. I'm leaving this forum.

theanimal
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Re: Follow-Up to $250K USA house --> How to Build a House?

Post by theanimal »

TopHatFox wrote:
Wed May 31, 2023 4:10 pm
Bro, every time I start a thread with perfectly reasonable aspirations I get push back - don't get an MSc in CS, don't buy or build a house, don't make a startup. Like, damn, just work your cube job & die; you will own nothing & you will be happy. I'm leaving this forum.
People here have done what you are looking to do and are giving you advice based off of their experience of doing the exact thing you are asking on what would make your life and it's experiences better. Better yet, it is not general and is applied to YOUR life and what you have professed you are interested in/want to do. You don't seem to like the responses that suggest alternatives or why your idea might not work. If you are interested in presenting ideas, discussing whether they are worthwhile and finding the best option, this is the place. If you are looking for people to confirm your decision and validate your already preconceived thoughts, then yeah you might find better luck elsewhere. Though I don't think you should go and I think you would be doing yourself a tremendous disservice.

ffj
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Re: Follow-Up to $250K USA house --> How to Build a House?

Post by ffj »

You get push back because you are arrogant and dismissive of the advice given. Advice you have asked for.

Now arrogance can be an asset so I say go build your house. It's clearly doable and you certainly don't lack confidence. Build your garage first as it gives you a starting point to hone your skills and a place to get out of the rain and store your tools and supplies.

And I am not being snarky here but please when you have completed the simple task of building a simple garage all by yourself let us know how it went and be honest where your blindspots occurred. So when the next guy or gal asks the same question you can give them honest and earned advice, just like everybody here has given you on multiple subjects over the years.

macg
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Re: Follow-Up to $250K USA house --> How to Build a House?

Post by macg »

TopHatFox wrote:
Wed May 31, 2023 4:10 pm
Like, damn, just work your cube job & die; you will own nothing & you will be happy.
Lol I don't know of one regular poster on this forum that has given or would give this advice.

You ask advice, and don't like the answers, or don't like the follow-up questions that are designed to make you think about your questions and goals. And then you leapfrog to another topic, doing the same thing.

Then, you blame the forum.

This isn't Reddit. This isn't some idiotic forum out there that is just an echo chamber. This is a forum full of people who have not only "done the work", but thought about why should they even bother doing the work, thought about best ways to optimize systems to do the work. People on here that are discussing things that are light years beyond the way you're thinking, because they've done everything you're asking about and moved on to loftier goals.

You are not asking the wrong questions for this forum... But you are not using the knowledge of this forum to your advantage. The questions of why do you actually want these things (whether it be a CS degree, or a newly built house, or travel tips) are important. The fact that numerous people have told you that you don't need certain things for your stated goals, and you immediately dismiss that advice, that just shows you aren't actually asking for advice, you're just asking for agreement. In which case, we say do whatever you want, however you want. But getting upset when you ask a forum for advice and you just don't like the advice, well, maybe that does mean you should break from the forum, and come back if & when you want to listen to advice from these people who have done it.

loutfard
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Re: Follow-Up to $250K USA house --> How to Build a House?

Post by loutfard »

TopHatFox wrote:
Wed May 31, 2023 4:10 pm
Bro, every time I start a thread with perfectly reasonable aspirations I get push back - don't get an MSc in CS, don't buy or build a house, don't make a startup. Like, damn, just work your cube job & die; you will own nothing & you will be happy. I'm leaving this forum.
Do come back in a few years once you've thrown off the burden called arrogance.

Here's one very practical hint on your way out. It's about building a house. A lot of construction work is done so much more efficiently in a team of two. The Larry Haun videos, though dated, will give you a good feel of that.

TopHatFox
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Re: Follow-Up to $250K USA house --> How to Build a House?

Post by TopHatFox »

@theanimal, I think in showing the reasons why an idea doesn't work from multiple angles, this forum is discouraging and ultimately not useful. It'd take a very rare and assertive person to even continue an idea after having it torn down so comprehensively; I'd rather just research and try the idea myself and re-assess on my own.

@macg, I am not arrogant, and actively take some advice. For instance, wired tools v. non-wired. I'll flip this on its head and say many of you do not like it when I push back against push back with examples and stats, such as saying that regular house-building is not akin to building a race car (in depth or breadth), or that construction workers statistically have lower IQs on average (they do, and their work should not be expert-only). I do not see how recent topics such as "setting up a website " or "sedentary indoor cold wear" are any more riveting than my threads; if anything, my threads are typically more relatable and useful to people currently in their 20's and early 30's. There are literally hundreds of threads I've made over 10 years with tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of views, so my writing was at least engaging.

@loutfard, I will not be coming back, and have requested to have all my posts + comments deleted. Interestingly, you calling me arrogant while having just joined the forum in Jan 2023 (as well as providing one more piece of advice on the way out) is more indicative of arrogance than me pushing back against pushback while taking what I can. Ultimately, this forum should be contextualized as one internet forum of one personal finance book, and I regret that I took it so seriously since 2013.

take2
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Re: Follow-Up to $250K USA house --> How to Build a House?

Post by take2 »

Wow that escalated quickly.

FWIW I don’t think anyone (certainly not me) has ever told you that you cannot do something, are incapable, or that it’s too difficult. I’m sure you can [learn to] build a house, just in the same way I’m sure you can [learn to] build a race car, or do literally anything else you want to do.

However, you cannot do all the things you want to do simultaneously. For you to be successful at whatever you choose it takes thought, planning, potentially [some form of] capital, and most of all your time. Time is not a limitless resource.

Your recent multiple posts across different topics will naturally elicit responses around what you’re appearing to seek, which is advice on what to do next. You seem to think your posts are about getting specific input on things (e.g. which degree to get, where to buy a house, how to build a house) but you haven’t embarked on any of those journeys yet so you aren’t asking the types of questions where you’ll get specific answers.

A general “how do you build a house” is not really the point of this forum. What are you actually expecting as a response? A how-to manual? Google is your friend if that’s what you seek. You can also look at journals of people here who have literally done this and read through their experiences.

If you were building a house and wanted to know the best way to do a specific task or solve a certain problem then you would likely get really great advice here. If you just want someone to tell you it’s possible for you to build a house by yourself without much prior experience then I’m happy to tell you it’s possible. It may not come out great, you may sink a ton of time and money into it, and ultimately it may not be what you really want, but sure it’s possible.

Until you know what you want and have embarked on that journey I don’t think you’ll be very happy with what feedback you get from here.

Best of luck, and I really do mean that.

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Viktor K
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Re: Follow-Up to $250K USA house --> How to Build a House?

Post by Viktor K »

Now bragging about view counts :lol:

Seriously, go use ChatGPT. I think you'll find it better yet. And this forum will weep and never recover from your women and immigrant rants.

ChatGPT to your first post:
Congratulations on receiving your first paycheck! It's great that you're considering different options for purchasing a house and exploring the idea of building your own home. Building a house can offer more flexibility and customization compared to buying an existing one. Let's break down your thoughts and considerations:

1. Affordability: You mentioned that it would take you approximately 3.9 to 4.5 years of work to save up enough money to buy a $250,000 house. It's important to note that this estimate assumes you save the entire paycheck each month, which might not be practical considering living expenses, taxes, and other financial obligations. Additionally, keep in mind that construction costs for a new home can vary widely depending on location, size, materials, and other factors.

2. Buying land and building: Purchasing a plot of land in the small western city and constructing your own home can be an attractive option. Building a house allows you to customize it to your preferences and potentially save on remodeling costs. However, you'll need to consider the cost of land, permits, architectural plans, construction materials, labor (for tasks you can't handle yourself), and other associated expenses.

3. Mortgage options and self-funding: If you choose to build your own home, you have the option of securing a construction mortgage or self-funding the project. Construction mortgages provide funds in stages throughout the construction process. Self-funding requires saving enough money to cover the entire project's cost. You'll need to evaluate the interest rates, terms, and eligibility criteria for construction mortgages if you decide to go that route.

4. Construction tasks: You mentioned that you feel confident in handling some aspects of construction yourself, such as flooring, roofing, siding, insulation, sheet rock, trim, paint, cabinetry, appliance research, interior decoration, deck, and landscaping. However, tasks like driveway, grading, framing, and foundation work may require professional assistance. It's crucial to assess your skills, knowledge, and available time before taking on such tasks yourself.

Before making a decision, it's advisable to consult with professionals, such as architects, contractors, and mortgage lenders, who can provide more accurate cost estimates and guidance based on your specific circumstances and the local market conditions. They can help you assess the feasibility, costs, and potential challenges of building your own home compared to purchasing an existing one.
I think that is more the "feedback" you're looking for.

theanimal
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Re: Follow-Up to $250K USA house --> How to Build a House?

Post by theanimal »

TopHatFox wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:13 am
@theanimal, I think in showing the reasons why an idea doesn't work from multiple angles, this forum is discouraging and ultimately not useful. It'd take a very rare and assertive person to even continue an idea after having it torn down so comprehensively; I'd rather just research and try the idea myself and re-assess on my own.
-
You have benefitted greatly from the forum's hive mind over the years as have I. Anyone can look back over your posts and the countless threads you have created and see how many people have been eager to answer your questions and provide you advice, no matter how seemingly basic some of them may have been. Now instead of showing some appreciation or care for the place that has provided you with so many answers, you wish to damage the forum by having all of your posts removed. Not because your posts are any great wonder in and of themself (although I'm sure there are some good ones) but rather that it would break up the conversation and create a swiss cheese like effect. Notice how the vast majority of your posts are in your journal or in topics that you have started? Do you know how rare that is?

Go back and read through your posts. Including all of your recent threads. People told you you could do a startup. People told you you could buy a house. People told you you could build a house. People told you you could do a road trip. And yes, people told you that you couldn't do a master's in CS, but that's because they said it was irrelevant and you could do it on your own!

I maintain that you have refused to answer any of the questions people have asked you. You have yet to answer my questions I stated two posts above, or Ego's questions or white belt's questions in your journal. You have not provided "stats" or data. You have provided one sentence statements that do not answer the questions being asked. ETA: Read take2's post above. And then read it 2 or 3 more times until it sinks in.

I don't know why anyone in their right mind would give up this resource, especially someone like you who is regularly receiving appropriate feedback.

Take a break and think it over. And just maybe invert it? Why is everyone staying here if everyone is so unhelpful and delusional? I've been here since 2013 like you and there are plenty of other long timers. Instead of thinking how you are right, super engaging and that we are all just a bunch of idiots, think about how you might be wrong. If that last sentence makes you mad or starts you thinking of 52 reasons why you're right, then you need to explore that more.

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mountainFrugal
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Re: Follow-Up to $250K USA house --> How to Build a House?

Post by mountainFrugal »

mountainFrugal wrote:
Wed May 17, 2023 10:01 am
As a follow-up to @scott2's questions...

Can you name a specific time that you got non-technical feedback at your work and incorporated that into a behavior change in how you then interacted with co-workers? Every company and organization has a different culture. This might help you determine what @scott2 is getting at.
A question I asked in the coding programs thread. Now replace work with forum and co-workers for forumites.

macg
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Re: Follow-Up to $250K USA house --> How to Build a House?

Post by macg »

TopHatFox wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:13 am
@macg, I am not arrogant ....
Proving my points. At no point did I say anything about arrogance. Others did. Just proves the point that you "read" replies, but you aren't actually reading them. You already have the answer in your head of what you want to hear, and want the echo chamber.
Viktor K wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:32 am
Now bragging about view counts :lol:

Seriously, go use ChatGPT. I think you'll find it better yet. And this forum will weep and never recover from your women and immigrant rants.

ChatGPT to your first post:

I think that is more the "feedback" you're looking for.
+1

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Ego
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Re: Follow-Up to $250K USA house --> How to Build a House?

Post by Ego »

It is a kick in the teeth to get the exact thing you've been working toward for more than a decade only to discover that the new reality is not what you expected. It is tempting to make the best of the bad situation by taking advantage of the opportunities it permits. Building or buying the big house is something relatively few your age can accomplish. Daydreaming about filing the garage with all of the spoils, tools and toys you can afford is an excellent way to distract the mind from the daily grind.

Some of us have experienced similar and consider ourselves fortunate to have discovered different ways to deal with the kick in the teeth. We will be here when you are ready.

sky
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Re: Follow-Up to $250K USA house --> How to Build a House?

Post by sky »

I am very sad to see what happened in this conversation. I don't understand what went wrong. I apologize if something I said was offensive, there was no intent to offend. I wish THF the best, and success with your projects.

loutfard
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Re: Follow-Up to $250K USA house --> How to Build a House?

Post by loutfard »

I should have been more cautious in my wording. Rocking the boat a bit, even if very much well-intended, clearly was not a productive way forward. My apologies to all those who have invested a lot of their time in making this forum a place of fruitful sharing, discussion and learning.

TopHatFox
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Re: Follow-Up to $250K USA house --> How to Build a House?

Post by TopHatFox »

Ego wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:46 am
It is a kick in the teeth to get the exact thing you've been working toward for more than a decade only to discover that the new reality is not what you expected.
The new reality sucks :’c

2Birds1Stone
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Re: Follow-Up to $250K USA house --> How to Build a House?

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

TopHatFox wrote:
Wed May 31, 2023 4:10 pm
Like, damn, just work your cube job & die; you will own nothing & you will be happy. I'm leaving this forum.
You can always go back to collecting Pokemon ;)

TopHatFox
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Re: Follow-Up to $250K USA house --> How to Build a House?

Post by TopHatFox »

Maybe I’ll just payoff my parent’s nice house at 130k and live here indefinitely. I bet you its now worth 500k. Take that 2023 reality. :evil:

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