RoamingFrancis' Journal

Where are you and where are you going?
RoamingFrancis
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Journal

Post by RoamingFrancis »

Was very inspired by listening to the episode with @Jin+Guice and read their journal from start to finish.

I want to rearrange my schedule to work just two days a week.

I developed a relationship with a bicycle repairman and may generate summer income by studying this skillset with him. I am very interested in carpentry and my brother is starting an electrical apprenticeship. I'm going to get some more trades information from him and see where I can start doing carpentry. Only thing is that I want to work part-time, which I'm not sure is allowed in standard trade apprenticeships.

My beekeeping mentor has larvae for me and my adopted mom has an unused hive which I will be picking up soon. Mom got chickens for the backyard. Looking forward to being a little more permaculturey than we were last year.

I really want to focus on jazz piano and martial arts. I have tried a couple different martial arts teachers and am going to try one more. I know that hopping around means slower progress but I want to find the right fit. I also am curious to explore weird percussion instruments like egg shakers and rain barrels, and maybe develop my voice a little bit. I think that putting in just 20 hours with my voice would make a huge difference.

I'm structuring my days differently as a result of working with my therapist. Thursdays I am taking off of work for groceries and laundry and all the stuff that I don't do because I have ADHD. I'm also establishing AM and PM routines and checking in every day with my men's group's accountability chat. AM Routine includes movement and grounding. PM Routine is basically a long vipassana sit. I am also maintaining a streak in Korean on a language learning platform.

I had a conversation in Nahuatl the other day! It was very simple (mostly greetings), but it was the first time I was able to start putting words together in a way that flowed.

Intermittent fasting seems to make sense for me. I am going to experiment with the 16:8 ratio and ask my men's group for accountability.

I am seriously underutilizing waste streams and dumpster diving. I have felt unsuccessful in my attempts to do this thus far, and reading J+G's journal has shown me that there's just a skill curve to it. My girlfriend is really good at this.

I've abandoned normal toothbrush use in favor of the miswak.

ertyu
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Journal

Post by ertyu »

How do you ground

ETA: did not know what a miswak is. Have now googled. Cool.

RoamingFrancis
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Journal

Post by RoamingFrancis »

@ertyu bare feet on the grass!

RoamingFrancis
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Journal

Post by RoamingFrancis »

What if we married postconumer praxis with workers' self-management and decentralized economic production?

Hey y'all. I was a Marxist in high school. For a couple years after high school I was convinced that my teenage communist self was naive, but in recent weeks I have been reconnecting with the basic ideas expressed by those philosophers. I would no longer consider myself a Marxist - while I respect Marx for his contributions to economic theory, I don't think he foresaw the trajectory socialism would take over the course of the 20th century.

But now that I am reconnecting with anarchist ideas I am seeing that some of these things are still really fucking solid. I want to see if this could be implemented practically. What happens when the rubber hits the road?.

Part of my neurodivergence is that I hold my values really fucking strongly. It's hard for me to drive cars or interact with the world because I see the ways in which I am complicit with the system and this causes me emotional pain. ERE offers a partial solution to this and is honestly fucking incredible and a work of genius. But I see a potential to organize economic production and political decisions around decentralized autonomous collectives, and I think that the coordination required to do this can begin now.

Through ADHD-focused therapy and joining J+G's semi-ERE cult I have come to realize that the structure that employment brings to my life is actually really good for me. It's really good for me to get out of the house at a certain time, have structure, have times that I need to be certain places, etc. It just works for me. Initially in my adult life I resisted all structure, because the only structure I had experienced was an oppressive public school environment. But I am realizing that there is a difference between liberating structures and oppressive structures.

Having a worker's co-op centered in post-consumer praxis sounds like a hell of a lot of fun, to be honest. A good way to marry my Survival Dance with my Soul Dance.

I am also realizing that it is not necessarily that I am hyper extroverted, but that I place tremendous value on deep emotional intimacy. I value this not only in romantic partners, but also in my friendships. I don't necessarily look to work environments as sources of social interaction and fulfillment, but if it happens I'm not opposed to it.

For better or for worse, there are educational barriers to ERE. While I understand and value the fact that Jacob has "dug a moat" around his work in order to keep the quality of discussion so high, this also means that it's simply not accessible to a lot of people. Unfortunately America has educational institutions that are not designed to instill any quality of critical thinking. I think this is an area where I am finding a natural talent - pedagogy seems to come naturally to me. I think that the public educational system is broken beyond the point of reform, but maybe we could develop alternative institutions that do work better? This is something that I would be very interested in.

There are already networks of ERE folks that know each other in meatspace. I personally consider @AxelHeyst to be an extremely close friend. Love you bro. I guess the line of inquiry that I'm pursuing at this point is if we can work together on a higher level than we currently are. Could we make a beekeeping or bicycle repair co-op, for example? I'm curious to see where this goes.

I think that any project along these lines would have to have a really strong program for Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, because let's face it ERE is pretty damn white. I don't think this is a bad thing per se, but I think that a failure to acknowledge this is a cop-out and does not live up to my standards of social responsibility. I also recognize how difficult it is to do this skillfully - I agree with basically everything that John McWhorter wrote in Woke Racism, and certainly unskillful conversations in this area can make things worse. That said, at the end of the day I think there has to be some sort of accountability system to ensure that whatever is being created is serving those who are most marginzalized. I do not know how to do this skillfully, but I really hope I can learn.

Just some ideas. I am coming to accept the nonlinear, disjointed way in which my brains processes thoughts so I have not attempted to organize these chronologically or anything like that. I hope you'll meet me halfway.


OutOfTheBlue
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Journal

Post by OutOfTheBlue »

You write: "I think that any project along these lines would have to have a really strong program for Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, because let's face it ERE is pretty damn white."

What's too white, the ERE strategic/post consumer framework (I doubt it) or the people who tend to cluster and participate in the ERE forum? What would be missing in terms of diversity, equity and inclusion, given that it is not a physical space/collective?

Post consumer praxis, many EREers, are into that, but combining it with a worker collective is going to limit who can participate, be it from a geographic point if view, a political point of view or the simple fact that many here wish to remove the need to work from the equation. Building a collective is a long term project, it requires a lot of involvement, with a risk of being left high and dry somewhere down the road. Yes, there's semi ERE, and this is another dimension. In the end, the project must be more alluring to the participants than the alternatives.

Do you have any people around you that would be up for such a project?

Work is one way to structure the day, but not the only one. It can be harder but gratifying to build/find the structure one needs, without it being imposed externally.

EDIT TO ADD:
With a sense of belonging to the greater community/web of life, deep down you know you are not alone. There is a wider collective in which you (can) participate, rich, diverse and inclusive. Can you feel it? Kindred spirits and bodies exist.
Last edited by OutOfTheBlue on Fri Jun 02, 2023 4:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

jacob
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Journal

Post by jacob »

Fuel meet Spark :? :(

This a reminder that politics on the forum remains "unwelcome".

Since politics infests pretty much everything in life these days, it's hard to avoid. However, think "need" rather than "want" before adding political fuel or sparks to the forum community. It would be nice not having to lose a couple of forum members each year anymore because of political disagreements.

OutOfTheBlue
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Journal

Post by OutOfTheBlue »

Edit on June 20:

Hey Roamingfrancis, hope everything's good for you there.

RoamingFrancis
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Journal

Post by RoamingFrancis »

I have been getting paid to help out an older couple living on a permaculture homestead. Projects thus far have mostly included chicken coop repair and simple landscaping. I am learning a ton about plants and the movie nights we have when I visit have been some of the most educational in my life.

Being neurodivergent continues to be challenging and navigating it has become more complex. In addition to ADHD, I may have characteristics of autism and auditory processing disorder. The house I am working on has really become home and the woman who lives there has really become a mother figure for me. My own parents have really not been understanding or supportive of any of the neurodivergent issues, but I am fortunate to now have developed a support system outside my blood family that makes me a lot less dependent on them.

Working at the farm has been perfect for developing executive function and manual dexterity skills in a supportive environment. I'm so thankful for this opportunity

I'm not exactly living in one particular place right now - I am still spending some time with my family, but I also have been living at the farm, at my girlfriend's house, and spending nights at a friend's place. I'm slowly starting to unlock more freedom and autonomy and feeling really good about this.

Reading

I have really been getting into literature and writing and I wrote 99% of a book but could still spend a long time putting finishing touches on. I'm rereading a lot of books and reading a couple new ones. I'm really trying to read mostly fiction at this point, but a couple nonfiction titles have snuck in. I've been picking up and putting down these writings based on my whims. For the past couple years I would always try to force myself through dry writing in order to hone my attention span, but now I'm just letting myself gravitate to whatever seems most interesting, even if it means flitting between books.

I'm rereading Sex at Dawn by Christopher Ryan and Cacilda Jetha. It feels a lot more personal now that I'm in a polyamorous relationship, and I'm also reading Michael Warner's The Trouble With Normal: Sex, Politics, and the Ethics of Queer Life and Jesse Bering's Perv: The Sexual Deviant in All of Us.

Also rereading Recapture the Rapture by Jamie Wheal. This one blew me away the first time I read it; I think he's a really good writer. This time I'm being more intentional about taking notes and dissecting the major influences on his thought.

It's been my goal to read Finnegan's Wake for quite some time now; I got a copy of Joseph Campbell's A Skeleton Key to Finnegan's Wake and am starting there. This book is an acid trip and I've been enjoying every minute of unraveling this one.

I finally got around to reading Narcissus and Goldmund by Hesse. To me each of the two main characters represents one half of my split psyche.

I read Beowulf but I found it kind of flat. There was just so little depth in Beowulf's character - I would love to learn more about the cultural context it evolved out of though so that I understand more of where it's coming from. Started The Odyssey and The Vimalakirti Sutra.

There are so many poets I'm exploring too! Lorca, Mahmoud Darwish, and I've been reading or playing an audio of Allen Ginsberg's Howl every night before I go to bed.

In summary I have been on a pretty hardcore literary trip recently. I want to thank a close friend for turning me onto the Beats and inspiring me to write the book that I did, and another friend (who is Muslim) for introducing me to Sufism, which is starting to infuse my life. My Arabic has gotten pretty good recently and two nights ago I had my first dream in the language, which is a milestone!

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fiby41
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Journal

Post by fiby41 »

Great progress on all fronts!

Interesting that you prefer listening to the audio at night despite the audio processing syndrome.

I'm sure the parents will come around to seeing things through your point of view sooner or later.

Would you recommend any of the books to the diverse set of friends you have?

Be sure to post a link here if you do get around to publishing your book.

I think dating non-exclusively is a legitimate way of starting things slow instead of commiting everything on a single bet and then breaking-off over again like a serial monogamist.

ertyu
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Journal

Post by ertyu »

this is sounding great, i'm really glad for you, the opportunity to help on the homestead and develop skills sounds like it's making you happy. i bet the couple you're helping enjoy passing along their knowledge, too. found families rock!

thanks for the reading list, too, some of the titles sound quite interesting.

RoamingFrancis
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Journal

Post by RoamingFrancis »

Thank you both! If I had to pick just one to recommend for a forum discussion, it would probably be Recapture the Rapture as I think it presents some useful tools to grapple with the Metacrisis. I've also been reading "the Hunter S. Thompson of Islamic literature," Michael Muhammad Knight, who has been both extremely inspirational and very challenging. I finished reading Why I Am A Five Percenter yesterday and am digesting it now.

I've decided that I'm going to rewrite the book. What I have now is the first draft - in the book I wrote I am one of the characters, and the story is told mostly from his perspective. I want to rewrite it to be from the perspective of the other characters in the story, and include "my" character mainly as a side character.

At least for me, the audio processing stuff specifically shows up when I'm translating audio into motor action. I get really disoriented with simple instructions like "put this here" or "move this over there." Listening to audiobooks is not really an issue. I am planning to see a psychiatrist in the near future to figure out what exactly is going on.

Everything with my partner is going really well too. We have been dating for 8 months now and everything is built on a solid foundation of care, compassion, and clear communication. I feel blessed in this area and am realizing that, although we've had challenges, I have some really solid relationship skills.

Found families do rock indeed. This has been a great arrangement for both of us. I don't know exactly when they started doing permaculture, but I think it's at least a couple decades. I introduced them to ERE because they're looking to work less.

I find myself at a crossroads with my ERE journey. I really love this approach to life and want to keep honing my skills. I think one mistake I made at the beginning was focusing too much on theory, and less on practical skills. Figuring out all of this neurodivergence stuff has really been key to uncorking some of the stumbling blocks I've encountered, namely that I'm just not very developed when it comes to manual dexterity and executive function. The first couple times I tried to cook, for example, I didn't get very far because I was not conscious of these factors. Now I'm returning to the cooking skillset and doing a lot better. I'm starting to compartmentalize or "chunk" meals into setup, cooking, and cleanup, and I'm also allowing myself to spend more money to get food because convenience actually is an important factor in order to keep myself fed. Most of my life I would just forget to eat, and because I'm naturally frugal, I would really just deprive myself of nutrients because I wanted to avoid spending money.

I actually experience guilt and shame when I spend money, and I want to let go of this. I am attracted to ERE because of the individual freedom it provides to shape my life in unconventional ways. I don't think that eco-guilt is helpful or helps solve the problem. I want to name this so that I can have this in my awareness in future journal updates.

I think the main transition that I need to make for the next phase of my ERE journey is really learning how to transition from a bookwormy nerd to really developing manual dexterity and practical skills. I assume that others on the forum have been through this process - can anyone comment on how it was for them to develop manual skills?

Skill Prioritization

My highest priority skill at the moment is cooking and grocery shopping, as they are most relevant to my immediate survival and well-being. I am being immersed in permaculture and herbalism at the farm, so those skills I am slowly learning by osmosis. The other skills that I have a special interest in are woodworking and beekeeping, as I take inspiration from one of my Buddhist teachers who was both a carpenter and a beekeeper.

How do you guys prioritize skill development?

ertyu
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Journal

Post by ertyu »

Alrightie, recapture the rapture got XD now lessee...

Western Red Cedar
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Journal

Post by Western Red Cedar »

RoamingFrancis wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2023 3:15 pm
I assume that others on the forum have been through this process - can anyone comment on how it was for them to develop manual skills?

Skill Prioritization

My highest priority skill at the moment is cooking and grocery shopping, as they are most relevant to my immediate survival and well-being. I am being immersed in permaculture and herbalism at the farm, so those skills I am slowly learning by osmosis. The other skills that I have a special interest in are woodworking and beekeeping, as I take inspiration from one of my Buddhist teachers who was both a carpenter and a beekeeper.

How do you guys prioritize skill development?
I think prioritizing cooking and food acquisition is an ideal area to focus for those interested in ERE/FI, or anyone in general. It has such a high value in return on health and financial yields. You can also pair it with theory as you go down the rabbit hole by looking at the science behind cooking, nutrition, macronutrients, flavor pairing, ethnic approaches, fermentation, etc...

On a more general note, I think of skill acquisition from a couple different perspectives. You can lean into your "stoke" and pursue those areas that naturally interest you and come easily (such as language or perhaps music). Or, you can identify an area that doesn't come easily, and set up a system to develop skills in that area. You can also experiment with different manual skills, preferably in a low-risk/cost manner, and see what comes naturally and what doesn't.

I try to keep in mind that some things, like cooking, are much more likely to produce an immediate yield when compared to other things, like playing my guitar or learning how to darn a sock. I'm not sure this is the best way to think about it, but some skills are simply more valuable in our modern economy (i.e. construction, plumbing, working on engines, etc...)

ETA: I finally located this discussion in @AxelHeyst's journal about motivation, willpower, and progress on individual goals. I still think about this frequently, and the extent to which I should grind to make progress on things I think I want to achieve versus leaning into things that I'm naturally interested in or have some level of talent (aka stoke). It is worth reading the whole discussion:

viewtopic.php?p=246917#p246917

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grundomatic
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Journal

Post by grundomatic »

RoamingFrancis wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2023 3:15 pm
I think the main transition that I need to make for the next phase of my ERE journey is really learning how to transition from a bookwormy nerd to really developing manual dexterity and practical skills. I assume that others on the forum have been through this process - can anyone comment on how it was for them to develop manual skills?
The few manual skills I have were learned through direct instruction from another human, followed by lots of forced practice. It was very helpful in that they told me what to do, showed me what to do, then could watch me try and give instant feedback. Then of course make me do it over and over. I learned knife skills by working as a prep cook in a kitchen, and while I lasted only a month, I chopped enough vegetables that even pre-ERE I was way more efficient than most home cooks, grandmothers excluded. Same thing with tennis lessons--one summer was worth years and years of farting around on my own.

RoamingFrancis
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Journal

Post by RoamingFrancis »

Yeah I definitely benefit from structured environments where I can get immediate feedback from a skilled teacher. I actually relate to this most in my meditation practice - I was gifted with a skilled teacher who really helped me get a solid foundation under me. Nowadays I'm more at a plateau with my practice - farting around different sanghas and focusing on other areas of life - but I experience a lot of gratitude for my first teacher.

I am considering trying to get a job in a kitchen, as it would expose me to an environment where I would be forced to internalize those skills.

The other area that I really want to focus on is my music. I have been putting this last for so many years and I want to actually take lessons with someone that can take me to the next level. I have a musician in mind whose style I want to imitate - James Booker - but beyond that is a mystery.

Trying to stay balanced. Developing a livelihood, catching up with technology skills I've been neglecting for years, and having fun with my girlfriend. I know there are some threads on here about ERE date ideas...

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Slevin
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Journal

Post by Slevin »

RoamingFrancis wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2023 3:33 pm
I am considering trying to get a job in a kitchen, as it would expose me to an environment where I would be forced to internalize those skills.
This is a weird one where the tendency for long shifts and overwork for line cooks is so common in the industry that there is now a whole trope about line cooks that cook food all day, but come home and cook things in the microwave / etc because they are too burnt out from cooking to feed themselves properly.

I think there is a lot of mileage when you are just starting out cooking to doing meal prep for the week with a friend (or two friends at max) one day a week / etc, where you can learn with somebody else, you have the structured commitment to be making food because the time is blocked off and so backing out is awkward, and even if you want to back out, you are still going to need to eat this week, so it just seems dumb to back out when you don't feel like cooking.

Going back to your style though, yeah you could burn 2-3 months working those 10-12 hour days 6 days a week and get down a lot of the skills quickly, then just quit and say you're burnt out and nobody would bat an eye.

RoamingFrancis
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Journal

Post by RoamingFrancis »

I think this could be a real possibility for me, but my instinct tells me now is not the right time for this. I am learning a lot of food prep from my permaculture gig, and I will have a lot of opportunities to practice cooking for my girlfriend.

I have an opportunity on my plate to do a locksmithing apprenticeship. Had an intro call the other day and it seemed like a good fit. They said they would follow up by sending me some documents a couple days ago but I haven't seen anything yet... This seems like a more stable income stream that I could depend on longer term, which is the priority in my life at the moment.

Currently reading Iron John, The Unbearable Lightness of Being, and Wizard of the Upper Amazon. Considering giving ERE a reread but I have less time to read now so I need to prioritize. I reread some of MMM's posts this morning and got a lot of value out of it. Definitely wanting to continue on this path.

Soliciting feedback from more advanced ERErs out there: Do you think the Wheaton Levels are a useful framework? I think one of the mistakes I made when I first discovered ERE was focusing on theory to the detriment of practical skills. I know I'm at a plateau, and need to put in some effort to "level up," but it's not clear to me that going back into the theory will take me where I want to go.

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grundomatic
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Journal

Post by grundomatic »

I don't know about being more "advanced", but what I ultimately what I took away from my personal obsession with all the level and stage discussion was that you just have to live the life that suits you, until it doesn't suit you anymore, at which point you make the needed changes. It seems like you have a good thing going--a compatible GF, a potential (paid?) apprenticeship, opportunities to practice and learn permaculture, and it sounds like many other things. Maybe you just need to put in the time with all the things you want to do and learn skills you want to learn.

OTOH, you asked about skill prioritization, so if you are having a hard time deciding what you want to do most based on "stoke" (ala the @AxelHeyst thread) because you are equally "stoked" about everything, here are just a couple of other threads discussing how to pick what to do:

viewtopic.php?t=6807
viewtopic.php?p=266841#p266841

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Re: RoamingFrancis' Journal

Post by jacob »

RoamingFrancis wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2023 1:45 pm
Do you think the Wheaton Levels are a useful framework? I think one of the mistakes I made when I first discovered ERE was focusing on theory to the detriment of practical skills. I know I'm at a plateau, and need to put in some effort to "level up," but it's not clear to me that going back into the theory will take me where I want to go.
They're a useful map of the territory for communicating with others. They might even be useful for seeing yourself in (2nd person) perspective. They're inadequate as a framework for "leveling up" due to using the present framework to the future framework, e.g. trying to understand WL6 from a WL5 perspective. In that regard, it works best as a rearview mirror. You can see exactly where you came from, but where you're going is only indicated as "not here". Specifically, a commonly complained complaint about ERE is that it's "too theoretical" and "intellectual masturbation", when "FIRE is a simple as 'spendling less than you make'". That's a WL2 perspective on WL7. Like someone, who only understands plus and minus (budgeting) complaining that calculus is useless.

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