A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

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jacob
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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by jacob »

I'm about 10 years behind you guys, but knowing the curve---the sound of inevitability---we already started harping^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hsuggesting changes years ago and eventually achieved some level of success. The problem is that anyone over 18 is technically an adult even if some don't act it. As such, I adopted a mantra that I believe I first heard from 7wb5, namely "no responsibility w/o authority". Upfront, this avoids oh so many problems when it comes to humans over the age of 18.

However, eventually authority may be given. The challenge then becomes one of not having to face too many "accumulated debts" whether they be financial, health-based, or in the form of a lifetime of accumulated crap^H^H^H^Hcollectibles. In general, anyone capable of planning for FIRE is capable of seeing much further than the average human (most humans just deal with things as they come on a weekly or momentary basis). This confers a strategic advantage. Remember that strategy without tactics is the slow road to victory while tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat. Appreciate that age may (or may not) mean more wisdom, but it almost always means less energy, so oldies may need help on the tactics. I jump on every opportunity to implement tactics ... before they change their mind. Knowing the strategy, it's possible to be selective in terms of what I help with. Clean out the storage unit? I'll be right there. Going shopping for a new sofa set? Sorry, too busy. I gotta stay at home teaching the canary to speak German.

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Ego
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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by Ego »

IlliniDave wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:20 am
And we're going to present him the option of assisted living along with it--but sadly are going to try to strong-arm him one way of the other this time. If he opts for assisted-living that's fine. A potential benefit of it is having a ready-made community of sorts to replace his dwindling circle of friends. Potential downside if he's forced into it is that being forced out of the home he's had for the last 56 years might sever whatever connections to the past that are holding his mind together and accelerate his decline.
I have a good friend who will be competing in the half-Ironman in a few weeks and is trying to qualify for Kona. Last year he and his wife moved to an assisted living facility. I have long been perplexed by this decision and over the past year have peppered him with questions about why they did it.

They own a home in a place that would generally be considered retirement heaven and neither show any signs of declining in any way. For months he would not really talk about it other than to say that his wife is a hospice nurse and she wanted to do it because she knows how the system works. A while back I mentioned to him that Mrs. Ego and I are childless, and wondered what it was about "knowing the system" that made them move now, thinking it may have something to do with the fact that they do not have children. They are in their mid-70s.

That's when he explained their thinking. He explained that they were on a waiting list for the best "active senior living" place in the region and their number came up. The initial evaluation to enter the really good quality places can be rigorous. They do a battery of physical and cognitive tests to make sure you are not too far gone. Basically the only way to be admitted to his particular facility is with no cognitive issues and only minor physical issues. As residents decline they progress to the upper levels of care which are only open to current residents.

He told me that at the beginning of the evaluation the physician told him, "Your words for this interview are 'brown, shirt and chair'. Periodically during the interview I am going to ask you your words and I will need you to repeat 'brown, shirt and chair' back to me." He did as he was told and repeated the words when she asked for them. He and his wife passed the interview and were admitted to live in this very sought after community, run by a non-profit that promises to take care of them for the rest of their lives. His wife knew all of the facilities in the area and she knew that this was the best.

Last week another friend (Mr. P) who recently suffered a severe bike crash showed up at the group meeting after the ride. He is struggling both physically and cognitively and his wife (Mrs. P), who brought him to the meeting, was obviously terrified about how they were going to cope. Money is not an issue. My retirement-home friend nudged me and said, "brown, shirt, chair", as he pointed to Mr. and Mrs. P. He said, "Mr. P will never be able to pass the test and get into our place. They will have to take whatever they can get or Mrs. P will have to take care of him." Apparently the places that can take you on short notice are not desirable at all.

The moral of the story is to encourage you to start thinking about places in your area now, before the decline is too great. You may be able to get him on a waiting list for a really good place and allow him to see how they vary. It will give him time to psychologically prepare for the change and may give you a bit of leverage when his name comes up for one of the nicer places.

Good luck.

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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

jacob wrote: I adopted a mantra that I believe I first heard from 7wb5, namely "no responsibility w/o authority". Upfront, this avoids oh so many problems when it comes to humans over the age of 18.
Yup. I gotta keep reminding myself of this. I literally gain 20 lbs. when I dose myself with donuts to counter the ill effects of martyrdom every time I ignore this rule of thumb. It's difficult to have high quality fun in "Mom-without-a-boundary" mode, so low quality fun tends to sneak its way in.

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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by IlliniDave »

ffj wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:15 am

... Regarding the bad son self-reflection, I wouldn't give it much thought. People choose how they want to live, even parents, and imposing your standard when he doesn't care just frustrates the both of you. Now obviously if the situation became really bad then action is warranted but I wouldn't sweat the small stuff.
Even though I quoted ffj, I'm going to try to respond to everyone who weighed in with thoughts regarding my dad.

I've been trying a balancing act on this subject for the last 5 years. Of course I want to be respectful to my dad but as I think jacob pointed out, amongst me, my dad, and my siblings, I'm really the only one whose default setting is to think ahead. Like Ego pointed out in sharing the anecdote regarding his friends, our options regarding assisted living are probably somewhat limited because of the "cognitive" issues. So far they've only manifested as short-term memory struggles (he still solves crosswords and sudoku puzzles every day, although it takes him a little longer to complete them than it once did). He still has his sense of humor and laughs/jokes a lot. It wasn't too long ago that he disassembled a broken Keurig my sister gave him and somehow repaired the little pump in it--still works as of yesterday. But I think the memory issues could close some of the doors. So far he doesn't have a "diagnosis" of anything in that realm, but he'd never pass a test like Ego described. As I've mentioned in the past he's always been sort of an "air head" and relied on my mom to keep him pointed in the right direction, but it is also getting worse, gradually but undeniably. I honestly don't know if he has a "disease" or if it's just normal fall off from a peak that was never all that high to begin with. Unfortunately, he's now a decade past the optimal time to have been making these sorts of plans, but to him planning that far in advance in antithetical to how he's wired.

My soap box statement to all of us with children/family is to work all these things out in advance to the greatest extent possible and make sure the people you'll be counting on should the time come are aware of your intents/desires/arrangements.

His increasing untidiness both indicates a need for some level of in-home care, but is also an impediment to obtaining it. So at minimum we're (siblings and I) are going to have to go over there and undo the clutter and get some deferred maintenance/repairs/renovations done before we can bring anyone in there.

His income is actually pretty robust, and the average of high-end IHHC in this area is about half his gross monthly income. Plus, my sister is taking him to his MD next week with the intention of getting him a referral for IHHC which would mean Medicare would cover a good chunk if not all of it. So the "battle" will be the initial wave of effort to get the place tidied up and in good enough repair that the IHHC and/or cleaning services won't run away in disgust. There's some hyperbole in that statement, but distressingly little.

I get the idea that he is over age 18 and that sometimes you just have to let people live their lives as they choose, but at the same time the circle of life often brings people back to a more child-like state of dependency towards the end and the default is for family to step in at that stage. The transition is tough for all involved, which is where we're at.

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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by loutfard »

amongst me, my dad, and my siblings, I'm really the only one whose default setting is to think ahead.
My soap box statement to all of us with children/family is to work all these things out in advance to the greatest extent possible and make sure the people you'll be counting on should the time come are aware of your intents/desires/arrangements.
I feel like I could have written almost the same things about my parents and siblings.

The sensible minimal thing for my parents to do would be to make old age plans, then make them explicit to all of us siblings.

They might also want to ask us if we want to help them with their old age plans. Slowly reversing from mostly them helping us to us helping them is inevitable anyway. Discussing that, making that more explicit, would make for a profound change to our relationship.

I'm quite sure none of this is going to happen. They've not made any plans I am aware of. They might have a vague idea of us jumping in to help them as needed. They're overwhelmed as is by daily life and the care for their grandchildren two to five days a week.

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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by Frita »

IlliniDave wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2023 7:20 am
My soap box statement to all of us with children/family is to work all these things out in advance to the greatest extent possible and make sure the people you'll be counting on should the time come are aware of your intents/desires/arrangements.
This prompted me to think about acting versus reacting and how fear-based denial feeds the latter. My spouse and I have 5 parents/step-parents in their 80s-90s who refuse to be responsible for this aspect of their lives. They seek out family members and helping professionals who will enable them. We are often made out to be the bad guys for not caring/doing enough, which sucks, and negatively affects our relationships. As they age, the problems tend to snowball so it is more crisis management. Most days I just accept that, though I do sit with feelings of sadness/anger/disgust at times.

I have realized that I can learn from this regarding my own plans. Even out 18 year old is discussing his plans with us, so I guess we are breaking a cycle.
IlliniDave wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2023 7:20 am
I get the idea that he is over age 18 and that sometimes you just have to let people live their lives as they choose, but at the same time the circle of life often brings people back to a more child-like state of dependency towards the end and the default is for family to step in at that stage. The transition is tough for all involved, which is where we're at.
This is hard. For us, it would involve using the legal system to seek guardianship. That sounds like a nightmare as other family members think the status quo is just fine. It seems like a choose-how-to-lose adventure. We are holding space for some other players to be open to accepting the circle of life and be willing to make some shifts.

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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by Ego »

Frita wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:27 am
They seek out family members and helping professionals who will enable them.
The senior apartment complex we used to manage offered no special services and the rent was slightly less expensive than market rent. We realized that some of the children of our tenants seemed to be very motivated to keep their parents living independently and keep them from entering the CCRCs (Continuing Care Retirement Communities). While there are some very good reasons to keep seniors living in their homes, there may also be some less-than-altruistic motivations. The really good non-profit CCRCs require a large upfront fee in addition to the monthly fees, so less well-off children may have inheritance concerns.

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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by guitarplayer »

jacob wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 10:17 am
Knowing the strategy, it's possible to be selective in terms of what I help with. Clean out the storage unit? I'll be right there. Going shopping for a new sofa set? Sorry, too busy. I gotta stay at home teaching the canary to speak German.
:D

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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by IlliniDave »

Frita wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:27 am
This prompted me to think about acting versus reacting and how fear-based denial feeds the latter. My spouse and I have 5 parents/step-parents in their 80s-90s who refuse to be responsible for this aspect of their lives. They seek out family members and helping professionals who will enable them. We are often made out to be the bad guys for not caring/doing enough, which sucks, and negatively affects our relationships. As they age, the problems tend to snowball so it is more crisis management. Most days I just accept that, though I do sit with feelings of sadness/anger/disgust at times.
Fortunately my dad is so naturally affable we don't have this dynamic to deal with. I can't recall him ever asking someone to do something for him. His quirk is that he's perfectly happy to just let things that the vast majority of people would consider something that needs doing go undone instead. He gets a little cranky when me or my sisters go over there and start cleaning or doing his laundry or whatever. He doesn't want to be taken care of and doesn't want to take care of himself. A blend of comical and sad.
Frita wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:27 am
This is hard. For us, it would involve using the legal system to seek guardianship. That sounds like a nightmare as other family members think the status quo is just fine. It seems like a choose-how-to-lose adventure. We are holding space for some other players to be open to accepting the circle of life and be willing to make some shifts.
Yep, it's tricky and we're sort of at an impasse with that. None of us want to get heavy-handed with him but most (not all though) recognize that at some point compassion will compel initiation of something. Some of what's going on is his lifelong tendency of having no motivation to keep his house in order (literally and figuratively). But some of it is clearly linked to his age and waning physical/mental/emotional capacity. Makes working out an optimal solution sort of tricky.

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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by IlliniDave »

Just a random between-monthly-update update while I pass time before going to visit Dad.

Happy Easter to all for whom the day is significant. And an equally happy day to everyone else.

I'm going to be a little more subjective this time.

I'm feeling good. Like really-really good. I'd mentioned at the onset of the 2023 version of my annual "lose 20-25 lb after Christmas" ritual that this is not a new, unfamiliar thing for me. And I always feel better as the effort progresses. But this time it's a little different. Part of it is I'm able to leverage the increased agency over my time ER provides which allows me to be a little more fastidious in my nutrition and activity palette. Figuring out I was prediabetic, rocking a fatty liver, and almost certainly insulin resistant (i.e., my metabolism was broken) and the implication of those conditions for my future provided a better motivation than just trying to avoid having to spend $25/pair on new jeans and figuring out how to repurpose discarded tents and sails for shirts.

I'm finally convinced enough that I have to give some props to my supplement regimen too, although the real proof of those is still pending the next round of labs. I'd mentioned earlier that my initial priority was to restore gut and mitochondrial health/function (which would cascade into improved liver health and insulin sensitivity). I lump them together because they go hand-in-hand. But as soon as you start looking into mitochondrial health you very quickly find a lot of overlap with anti-aging/longevity. I'm still quasi-skeptical of claims one can turn back their biological clock to a significant degree, but I do believe slowing biological aging and extending one's healthy lifespan is likely achievable for most. And for the record I think it can be done to a good extent even without fancy supplement stacks through good food choices and physical activity. However, for me adding the supplements to a fairly solid base regimen definitely appears to be an amplifier in the process.

The differences relative to my prior (supplement-free) extended health kicks I've noted include improved sleep, substantial improvement in overall energy level, recovery times reduced almost to what they were when I was a high schooler, maintaining/maybe increasing lean mass while dropping overall body weight at a pretty fair clip*, by courting autophagy having very little excess loose skin, and feeling like I can recruit muscle strength better than I've been able to in 30 years. None of my joints or tendons are achy or sore any more. I can't say my crow's feet are reduced or point to any appearance-related changes towards youthfulness, but the couple little liver spots I had on my hands are fading and the outside of my eyebrows are starting to fill back in some. I also feel much more mentally alert and increasingly have urges to challenge myself more in that regard.

Unlike the past 15 or so years, my annual tune up period is leading me to reevaluate my future. I'd always assumed I'd make it to my actuarial expiration date +/- a few years, so at this point was looking at 20 years give or take. But I started to consider the implications of: what if these people who research/promote anti-aging are not blatantly overly optimistic/full of it, but are at least partially correct? What if continuing on this path kicks my healthy life span out well over 80 years or even beyond age 90?

Suddenly my nest egg that seemed ludicrously oversized starts to look a lot more meager. I'd always figured once I hit 70 or so my days up at the hideout would sunset and I'd consolidate to a more conventional retirement to wait out the end. Since by ere standards I was a late retiree I never gave any thought to having an occupation post corporate minion. I always thought of retirement as primarily what some would call "me time" (I dislike that phrase) and secondarily being more of a family asset than I was able to be while shouldering the corporate grind. Now I've got a whole new playing field to consider and stew about. I still might kick the bucket even before my life expectancy is up, and maybe any plans I make are a silly waste of time and any diversions from my current path could turn out to be regrettable. Yet I still feel compelled to at least get some ideas for contingency plans. Even just the possibility of having another 10-20 reasonably good years to account for has really begun to overhaul my attitude about things

*Last monthly scorecard I bemoaned a substantial slowing of weight loss during March, but I seem to have blown through that plateau and am more/less back on the continuation of the curve I was achieving during Jan and Feb.

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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by Smashter »

I'm impressed! Congrats on the continued progress. My parents are ~10 years older than you and are both definitely on the decline in terms of physical health. I wish I could bottle up whatever motivation you have and give it to them.
IlliniDave wrote:
Sun Apr 09, 2023 9:27 am
None of my joints or tendons are achy or sore any more.
This part stood out to me. It seems like every time I talk to my dad he has a new ache or strain of some kind. He currently can't extend his right arm out in front of him without pain. His shoulders and back seems like especially bad problem areas. All these injuries happen through routine living. He'll just be reaching for a cup and then bang, mysterious injury that he refuses to get checked out by a doctor.

I know it might be impossible to say, but do you think your lack of joint pain is from reduced inflammation, better strength, better mobility, the new supplement stack, or some combo of the above?

It's a very low probability my dad implements anything I recommend to him, but I'd be curious what's working for you anyway. Especially on the supplement front. Maybe I can find a clever way to present the info that actually facilitates some change.

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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by Frita »

There’s nothing like getting older and increased caregiving to a parent to prompt some meditation on one’s own life. I am slightly younger at 54 but am in this space too. Weight gain is so easy, it takes significantly more effort to attempt to maintain muscle tone and flexibility and cardio, plus I can no longer deny that I am closer to my death than my birth. Enjoy your time with your dad and happy Easter to you too!

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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by ertyu »

Are you still staying off of grains, legumes, nightshades and other leptin sources? Also, you seem to credit a lot of the improvement to the supplements you take -- do you mind saying what those are? Apologies if you talked about this already

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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

'm going to be a little more subjective this time.

I'm feeling good. Like really-really good.
This is great! All the objective metrics begin to seem pretty meaningless after a while.

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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by Ego »

What a wonderful update! Congratulations. Your metamorphosis is incredibly impressive and very motivating for those of us in your age range. This kind of thing is fun to watch and is contagious. Nice work!

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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by Scott 2 »

Have people in your life noticed the change in mental acuity?

My dad is a little older than you. He had a diabetes scare several months ago. He made behavioral changes in pursuit of better numbers, though not to your extent. I've been surprised by the definite mental uptick. I wouldn't have said there's anything wrong previously. But he's obviously better. It's heartening to see.

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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by IlliniDave »

Apologies, everyone, that it took some time to get back to this. My dad has had a flurry of medical appointments over the last week+ which has kept me on the move. Seems he has developed iron deficiency anemia. Low iron and flirting with the anemia threshold is a condition he's had for many decades, but in between his last primary care doc visit and the one he had 10 days ago, it got worse, enough so that the doc ordered a fairly aggressive regimen to get him back to his normal. So transfusions and iron infusions and more office visits with a hematologist and starting next week gastroenterology. Hopefully over the next few weeks things will settle into a more normal rhythm.
Smashter wrote:
Sun Apr 09, 2023 10:13 am

[reduction of everyday aches and pains]

This part stood out to me. It seems like every time I talk to my dad he has a new ache or strain of some kind. He currently can't extend his right arm out in front of him without pain. His shoulders and back seems like especially bad problem areas. All these injuries happen through routine living. He'll just be reaching for a cup and then bang, mysterious injury that he refuses to get checked out by a doctor.

I know it might be impossible to say, but do you think your lack of joint pain is from reduced inflammation, better strength, better mobility, the new supplement stack, or some combo of the above?
Aches and pains. Unfortunately, perhaps, I think I have to give most of the credit to my basic nutrition regimen which is by design anti-inflammatory. If you didn't see it above I'm following very close to the "Plant Paradox" regimen. Iirc I've had three "cheat meals" in 2023--two eating pizza (wheat and a small amount of tomato in the sauce) and one eating non-grass-fed/grass-finished beef brisket on St Patrick's day. Otherwise I've stuck with the eat this/don't eat this lists pretty faithfully. If nothing else, I don't think any supplements would have much efficacy without being added to a sound regimen. I say 'unfortunately' because sticking to the regimen is basically an all day every day thing so it takes some motivation.

I think the way I am exercising plays a role too. My reference point is always my days being a Crossfit devotee. I started in my mid-40s and by my later 40s I had a shot shoulder, problems with my hips, and frequent bouts of tennis elbow. Plus, having severe DOMS lasting sometimes 3-4 days was routine. With those memories in mind I tried to cherry pick approaches that were less likely to beat up my now 10-year-older body. So I'm employing some hacks Dave Asprey has introduced (a modification of HIIT he calls "slope of the curve biology"), and for strength training I've opted to try resistance bands instead of traditional weights.

Still, I get your dad's situation. For the last 2 years I'd been picking up random aches and pains without any real obvious causes. Last summer it was really noticeable wrangling the kayak and even fishing out of it. My lake has some fairly large smallmouths and those fish are very athletic.The twisting and turning involved in wrestling them into a small boat from a seated position seemed to aggravate something different each time out. Sometimes just sleeping wrong would strain my lower back. I nearly crippled myself one day taking off a pair of sweatpants that got tangled on my heel.

I wish I could get my own dad to make some of the changes I've made, but he still clings to dietary advice that was contemporary 40 years ago.

So I guess to summarize it starts with strong baseline nutrition, and activity that does not by design damage muscles and tendons (rowing machine, walking/hiking, strength training with resistance bands, and normal everyday outdoor chores like shoveling snow have been my mainstays), or run a high risk of it. Since Ertyu asked as well, and for more of a comprehensive rundown, I'll address the supplement side in a follow-up post sometime later this weekend. I've hesitated about delving into that side of things too much just because in general it's not very ere-ish, and I don't want to give the impression that I found a bunch of magic pills/powders that make all the problems go away without any effort. I do think they've helped me once I laid the groundwork in terms of nutrition and activity.

IlliniDave
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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by IlliniDave »

ertyu wrote:
Mon Apr 10, 2023 2:04 am
Are you still staying off of grains, legumes, nightshades and other leptin sources? Also, you seem to credit a lot of the improvement to the supplements you take -- do you mind saying what those are? Apologies if you talked about this already
Yes, except for the handful of little cheat meals mentioned above, I have stuck to Gundry's "eat this/don't eat this" lists consistently and to the best of my ability. See below regarding supplements.
Smashter wrote:
Sun Apr 09, 2023 10:13 am

... It's a very low probability my dad implements anything I recommend to him, but I'd be curious what's working for you anyway. Especially on the supplement front...
So, on the supplement front ...

First a disclaimer of sorts. I can't really recommend to anyone that they should take this or that supplement. With good knowledge of one's present health situation, consultation with one's medical provider if relevant (if on prescription meds, any existing/ongoing medical conditions, etc.), and with specific goals on mind, these are some things one could research and consider.

I don't want to sound like a supplement commercial. I'll reiterate that I believe a good nutrition regimen and activity program do the bulk of the heavy lifting in ones overall health--along with good sleep they form the three legs of the stool. I believe targeted supplements can hone the blade of diet and exercise, but that's largely based on my own N=1 experiments. For some of the things I'll mention there's some amount of clinical support for their efficacy, but I'm not going to have references and citations.

I went into this with the initial goals of restoring metabolic/mitochondrial, gut, and liver health. As far as I can recall, everything I'm taking I selected because they potentially have a role of improving those aspects of the physiology, or at least help with cellular-level processes in the body. Most of them I tend to "cycle" (i.e., don't take every day witout fail), primarily because many of them also have antioxidant properties and a steady intake of those can blunt the body's native antioxidant systems.

I should mention that there's overlap in some of these both in the sense some have overlapping potential benefits, and some have potential benefits in multiple areas.

There are a few basics I take that predate this effort: concentrated fish oil (anti-inflammatory), DHA, time-release vitamin C, vitamin D3 (in the winter). I also recently added vitamin K2 to pair with the D3, but don't know if it has any effect one way or the other on the improvement goals I stated above.

Specific to gut health I've taken three different probiotics, two commonplace ones I just picked up at a local pharmacy and a rather pricey one I ordered online from Pendulum called "Metabolic Daily", which as the name implies targets metabolic health, specifically by regulating sugar metabolism. Caveat with these is you have to go out of your way with food choices to ensure you maintain a suitable environment in your gut for them to take hold and flourish, and to feed them. To that end aside from trying to eat a wide variety of organic plant food I take both psyllium and inulin fiber supplements a few times apiece each week. Although I'll list them in other categories below, I take a number of polyphenols that gut bacteria also feed on.

For liver health/healing I take milk thistle extract, a B-vitamin supplement a couple times a week, green tea extract (though I developed a liking for Matcha tea which is gradually replacing the supplement), NAC, and Turmeric.

For mitochondrial health/support I take Berberine, Quercetin, Ubiquinol, Resveratrol, Glycine, acetly-L-Carnitine, geranylgeraniol, and Melatonin. D3 and K2 support as well.

Throw-ins for blood pressure regulation and healthy circulation: Grape Seed Extract and Pycnogenol.

The more esoteric stuff:

Urolithin-A - been shown to rejuvenate/increase mitochondria in muscle tissue of older adults via biopsy in controlled trials. It probably supports mitochondrial function in other cells in the body but no solid studies of the caliber of the muscle cell studies have been published. This one I suspect might play a role in my surprising lean mass retention (increases?) while losing significant body weight. It might also contribute to my sense of improved exercise recovery. This one is big in the anti-aging community since among other things degradation of muscle volume and function is a "hallmark" of aging. It's expensive.

NMN (taken along with glycine and TMG): NMN is a form of (I think) vitamin B3 and is a precursor to NAD+ which is a hugely important molecule in dozens of cellular functions. NMN has been shown to boost NAD levels in older adults. Double edge thing for me because excess B3 can be hard on diseased/degraded livers. I suspect it plays a role in my overall feeling good/energy levels. But I've only been taking it for 5-6 weeks so hard to tell. It's another prominent item in the palette of the anti-aging community.

HTB (Himalayan Tartary Buckwheat): Sort of a newly-designated "superfood" that is polyphenol-rich and supports cellular/mitochondrial rejuvenation. Has components that seem to act like master regulators in how polyphenols/antioxidants are used in immune system responses.

It's likely I've omitted an item or two.

Nearly all of these have purported potential benefits beyond what I listed them for (I grouped them by what mapped to my primary initial goals of restored metabolic/mitochondrial health).

Just as an example, I have NAC (N-Acetyl Cysteine) listed under liver health. It's a substance that the body uses as a precursor in producing glutathione. That gives it a widespread effect across the body in terms of protecting cells and healing tissues. It's important in the body's detoxification processes and is protective to the liver and kidneys. Glutathione production tends to wane with age, so helping the body boost levels helps with healthy aging. It's purported to contribute to brain health in a number of ways through being anti-inflammatory and helping regulate neurotransmitters (once we get his anemia crisis settled I'm going to try to get my dad to start taking it). It's been shown to help with blood sugar regulation which as a self-diagnosed pre-diabetic is right in line with my intermediate-term goals. Another that doesn't matter so much to me at this stage is that it improves both male and female fertility. It has heart protective properties, blocks oxidation of cholesterol, and boosts the body's production of NO2 for improved circulation and better blood pressure control. It boots immune function including the the pathways that kill cancerous cells and inhibit viral replication. NAC supplementation seems to also have substantial benefits in relieving respiratory symptoms. I'm a near-lifelong sufferer of asthma related to environmental allergies (mold, pollen, etc.) so that alone gives me a strong reason to consider it. During that weird period a couple years ago when the powers that be seemed to marshall all that power against anything that might be seen as competition with the covid vaccines, the FDA made moves to have it banned as a supplement and classified as a prescription drug despite it being a natural amino acid found in animal protein (also produced in the liver from AA building blocks). Whether or not that timing was a coincidence is a topic of debate. But it purportedly has efficacy in other severe respiratory infections in terms of helping people avoid/get off ventilators.

That all sounds like a sales pitch and makes NAC seem like a miracle substance, which of course it's not. But for those of us who are pretty far along the path of aging, there are a lot of reasons to consider giving our bodies the wherewithal to restore waning glutathione concentration. And some of the other items on my list seem to have similar breadth of potential benefits. I think that quality is inherent to anything that plays a role in improved cellular/mitochondrial health.

The above is probably more information than anyone wanted. Supplements aren't for everyone and I'm not trying to encourage/promote their use. Virtually all of them on my list are things available from food sources, though maybe not in quantities required to make up for deficiencies caused by age or things like poor nutrition and lifestyle.

Smashter
Posts: 541
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:05 am
Location: Midwest USA

Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by Smashter »

Sorry about those recent developments with your dad. I hope the treatments help get him back on track.

Thank you for the detailed rundowns on both the exercise and supplement front. So much to dive into there. The resistance bands seem like they might be a good fit for my pops. Pushups have been his mainstay for his entire life. Maybe that basic, repetitive motion without any other shoulder work is doing him as much harm as good at this point. He keeps going through cycles of getting into a pushup routine, then getting hurt, then taking months off from doing any upper body work whatsoever.

NAC might be one supplement I could talk my dad into trying. “The elitists bureaucrats don’t want you to know about this one” would be a great sales pitch for him :)

Another thing I find interesting is that my wife has gotten very into supplements over the past 6 months in her pursuit of boosting fertility. Many of the things she’s taking are also on your list. It makes sense that supplements that purport to boost overall health would boost fertility as well. She has not gotten pregnant but she feels a lot better. Is it the placebo effect or supplements? Maybe a little of both? Either way I’m happy she’s feeling good. 



Reading your post sparked some thoughts for me around delivery method and absorption. I recently read this great piece on the development of oral rehydration therapy, which has saved millions of lives around the wold. 



Long story short, it took decades for scientists to realize that in order to rehydrate people with diarrhea they had to administer salt and glucose in precise ratios in order for the body to absorb the fluids it needed to stay alive. It looks so simple in hindsight (it’s just sugar, salt, and water!) but it was actually quite tricky to figure out.



I’d love to learn more on how to best absorb all these supplements and what delivery methods are most effective. I’m sure a supplement cynic would just say, “Duh, just eat whole foods, that’s how nature intended you to absorb things." Which I mostly agree with. But some people are still going to need supplements so we might as well get better at maximizing their effectiveness. 

Last edited by Smashter on Sun Apr 16, 2023 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

IlliniDave
Posts: 3845
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:46 pm

Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by IlliniDave »

Smashter wrote:
Sun Apr 16, 2023 7:31 am
Sorry about those recent developments with your dad. I hope the treatments help get him back on track.

Thank you for the detailed rundowns on both the exercise and supplement front. So much to dive into there...
Thanks for the wishes concerning my dad. As mentioned this is not a new thing for him (he said he was denied entry into NROTC because of it) but it has changed substantially. So far the transfusions don't seem to do much except boost his platelet counts, but the one iron infusion he had so far seemed to make an improvement in his overall alertness and energy. The expectation is that they'll get him on some sort of a regimen to keep it from getting this severe again.

Yes, it's all quite involved and interraleted/interactive. Regarding absorbtion, that's probably a science unto itself. I remember not too many years back the mantra was: supplements make expensive pee. While there's some truth to that (anything your body can't store and doesn't need immediately it will flush--one of the reasons I go with time-release vitamin C for example) there's more too it than that. Polyphenols in general your body only absorbs something like 10-15% of. What was missed until the human microbiome was mapped and studied is that most of the rest are consumed and converted into postbiotics by gut bacteria, and those postbiotic products are then absorbed by the body and used for all sorts of beneficial processes, often involving mitochondria.

One thing that I didn't mention is that most of the initial wave of supplements I added were recommended in Gundry's books. If a guru of healthy/clean eating for metabolic rejuvenation encourages considering them, it gets my attention. He and other MDs in his space claim that they can see positive changes in blood markers and other lab tests when their patients start (or stop) some of these supplements, and increasingly they are getting clinical trial support.

It just makes sense that enhancing the ground-level functionality of the body trickles up and enhances everything built on it.

And you're correct, there's a huge lag between these discoveries and their adoption by the healthcare industry, possibly because Big Pharma is an effective and powerful gatekeeper.

Bench press, pushups, and most of all burpees (aka, Satan's Writhe) destroyed the AC-joint in my right shoulder and it took years of cease-and-desist before the chronic ache went away. Even though I do several very analogous movements with the bands on a regular basis, so far no issue whatsoever.
Last edited by IlliniDave on Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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