The Manual of Epictetus

[guitarplayer]

@mooretrees, perfect! Glad to be bringing some value here with this thread as otherwise my interests can (tend to?) to be borderline (immediately) irrelevant.

@ertyu, yeah the basking in reflected glory is like any tool in finite games, can be used well and not so well. The other side of the coin is like when you have two people who write each other good references to advance at a workplace for example. They can well be good for the job anyway, but the way society works is that it is good to know people who do well. Also consider 'you are the average of the 5 people nearest to you' - there you have the reflected glory instance in some loose form. Also from the point of view of social signalling, like any other stuff used for social signalling.

It should also to be pointed out that basking in reflected of somebody generally tends to lead to envy from the audience as per the mimetic desire depicted nicely in this short talk excerpt. It is in this sense that I mentioned that I occasionally do it and that it is not very stoic of me.

I think Epictetus would make a point that having glorious people around oneself is a preferred indifferent and talking about having them around is perhaps dispreferred indifferent down to 'no good', depending on what sort of glory that is. I could be talking about how my friends are so very stoic, which would probably not matter to anyone and not add value to my life. Talking about how my friends are rich or successful implied that these are traits good in and of themselves which they are not. Hence it is no good to do it.

[guitarplayer]

Chapter 7

7

When you are on a voyage, and your ship is at anchorage, and you disembark to get fresh water, you may pick up a small shellfish or a truffle by the way, but you must keep your attention fixed on the ship, and keep looking towards it constantly, to see if the Helmsman calls you; and if he does, you have to leave everything, or be bundled on board with your legs tied like a sheep. So it is in life. If you have a dear wife or child given you, they are like the shellfish or the truffle, they are very well in their way. Only, if the Helmsman call, run back to your ship, leave all else, and do not look behind you. And if you are old, never go far from the ship, so that when you are called you may not fail to appear.

The Catholic church turned it into

From dust thou shalt rise into dust thou shalt return

Ah the rituals. Not sure if many here had a pinch of ash ever sprinkled over their head.

I do every so often think that I come from nothing, in the face of which all else seems a bonus.

[guitarplayer]

Chapter 8

8

Ask not that events should happen as you will, but let your will be that events should happen as they do, and you shall have peace.

See the world as it is, then become a live player.

This chapter also reminds me of how investing is about observing how people view the world not as it is, over and over and over again. Then getting oneself in the right place and acting when it's time.

[guitarplayer]

Chapter 9

9

Sickness is a hindrance to the body, but not to the will, unless the will consent. Lameness is a hindrance to the leg, but not to the will. Say this to yourself at each event that happens, for you shall find that though it hinders something else it will not hinder you.

The same goes for emotions - temporary madness. One can listen to their emotions, seek council there, but does not have to mindlessly follow.

[guitarplayer]

Chapter 10

10

When anything happens to you, always remember to turn to yourself and ask what faculty you have to deal with it. If you see a beautiful boy or a beautiful woman, you will find continence the faculty to exercise there; if trouble is laid on you, you will find endurance; if ribaldry, you will find patience. And if you train yourself in this habit your impressions will not carry you away.

The way I read it today, you just look around and ask yourself 'so what sort of workout is it today?'

[guitarplayer]

Chapter 11

11

Never say of anything, 'I lost it', but say, 'I gave it back'. Has your child died? It was given back. Has your wife died? She was given back. Has your estate been taken from you? Was not this also given back? But you say, 'He who took it from me is wicked'. What does it matter to you through whom the Giver asked it back? As long as He gives it you, take care of it, but not as your own; treat it as passers-by treat an inn.

This is a reminder of impermanence as much as a point on avoiding perfectionism. When I lease something, I will try to keep it in good shape but will not be overly occupied with making it absolutely spotless for return. When I borrow something from a friend, I can at most try to give it back in a bit better shape than I got it - but this is already going the extra mile.

Relatedly, someone DW and I know passed away today, such is life.

[guitarplayer]

Chapter 12

12

If you wish to make progress, abandon reasonings of this sort: 'If I neglect my affairs I shall have nothing to live on'; 'If I do not punish my son, he will be wicked.' For it is better to die of hunger, so that you be free from pain and free from fear, than to live in plenty and be troubled in mind. It is better for your son to be wicked than for you to be miserable. Wherefore begin with little things. Is your drop of oil spilt? Is your sup of wine stolen? Say to yourself, 'This is the price paid for freedom from passion, this is the price of a quiet mind.' Nothing can be had without a price. When you call your slave-boy, reflect that he may not be able to hear you, and if he hears you, he may not be able to do anything you want. But he is not so well off that it rests with him to give you peace of mind.

This hinges on the fundamental rule of the dichotomy of control - leave what is not under your control and focus on what is under your control and what is important. Then do something.

[guitarplayer]

Chapter 13

13

If you wish to make progress, you must be content in external matters to seem a fool and a simpleton; do not wish men to think you know anything, and if any should think you to be somebody, distrust yourself. For know that it is not easy to keep your will in accord with nature and at the same time keep outward things; if you attend to one you must needs neglect the other.

Boyd's 'be someone or do something' spring to mind, as well as tactics for avoiding raising to the highest level of incompetence.

[guitarplayer]

Chapter 14

14

It is silly to want your children and your wife and your friends to live for ever, for that means that you want what is not in your control to be in your control, and what is not your own to be yours. In the same way if you want your servant to make no mistakes, you are a fool, for you want vice not to be vice but something different. But if you want not to be disappointed in your will to get, you can attain to that.

Exercise yourself then in what lies in your power. Each man's master is the man who has authority over what he wishes or does not wish, to secure the one or to take away the other. Let him then who wishes to be free not wish for anything or avoid anything that depends on others; or else he is bound to be a slave.

What lies in your power? Thinking, acting, wanting something and not wanting something else.

[guitarplayer]

Chapter 15

15

Remember that you must behave in life as you would at a banquet. A dish is handed round and comes to you; put out your hand and take it politely. It passes you; do not stop it. It has not reached you; do not be impatient to get it, but wait till your turn comes. Bear yourself thus towards children, wife, office, wealth, and one day you will be worthy to banquet with the gods. But if when they are set before you, you do not take them but despise them, then you shall not only share the gods’ banquet, but shall share their rule. For by so doing Diogenes and Heraclitus and men like them were called divine and deserved the name.

I have nothing to add.

[guitarplayer]

Chapter 16

16

When you see a man shedding tears in sorrow for a child abroad or dead, or for loss of property, beware that you are not carried away by the impression that it is outward ills that make him miserable. Keep this thought by you: 'What distresses him is not the event, for that does not distress another, but his judgement on the event.' Therefore do not hesitate to sympathize with him so far as words go, and if it so chance, even to groan with him; but take heed that you do not also groan in your inner being.