Black Swans

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Lucky C
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Re: Black Swans

Post by Lucky C »

GandK wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:26 pm
So I ask you all: what national or global event do you fear most financially, and what steps have you taken to prepare for said event, if any?
As others mentioned, if we can define the type of event that we fear, then it is not a "black swan" because we would not see it as a possibility beforehand, though we may see it as obvious in hindsight. Of course there always seem to be some people who saw the possibility of a certain shock beforehand, but there was no way they would have known when/how it would exactly play out, and it's unrealistic to expect someone could correctly predict several of these events throughout their lifetime even if they got lucky or had the rare expertise to be able to predict one of them.

The existence of Black Swans implies that financial markets, global events, etc., do not follow a normal probability distribution with symmetric probabilities of positive and negative events. The negative left tail is fatter than the positive right tail of the probability distribution. For example, if looking at S&P500 6-month price changes vs. their long term median 6-month price change, there has been a greater occurrence of prices falling short of their average by 30% or greater vs. exceeding their average by 30% or more (data going back to 1928). Even worse, a 30% shortfall requires a 43% recovery to get even whereas an unexpected 30% windfall would only take a drop of 23% to wipe out.

For a passive buy & hold investor, the solution is psychological. Don't worry about such risks and know that this negative tail risk dissipates over longer periods of time - invest for decades and don't worry about a bad 6 month run that couldn't have been predicted. For a non buy & hold investor or trader, either invest/trade in such a way that negative tail risk doesn't matter to your income flows, or find a way to insure against it, or find a way to alter the expected distribution of your returns such that they don't have the negative tail skew that buy & hold investors face.

Quadalupe
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Re: Black Swans

Post by Quadalupe »

Lucky C wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:46 am
As others mentioned, if we can define the type of event that we fear, then it is not a "black swan" because we would not see it as a possibility beforehand, though we may see it as obvious in hindsight. Of course there always seem to be some people who saw the possibility of a certain shock beforehand, but there was no way they would have known when/how it would exactly play out, and it's unrealistic to expect someone could correctly predict several of these events throughout their lifetime even if they got lucky or had the rare expertise to be able to predict one of them.
What I took away from Taleb's writings is that we cannot predict events/causes. However, you can reason about what effects/situations would be detrimental for you. E.g. we cannot predict a war or earthquake, but we can predict that not having food/empty supermarket shelves are bad, no matter how that came to be. So maybe look at Maslow's pyramid and see what steps you can take to ensure access to each layer of the pyramid.

Or, phrased differently: risk is often defined as probability times impact. Taleb argues that we should mostly ignore the probability part and focus on mitigating the events with the highest impact.

Aspirant
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Re: Black Swans

Post by Aspirant »


My #2 concern is a repeat of the Spanish Flu (H1N1 (standard flu) mutation or similar like H5N1 (bird flu)) that causes a cytokine storm or something equally deadly. Normally the flu kills 1 in 1000 and that mostly babies and the very old, whereas the Spanish flu killed the healthiest part of the position at a 1 in 5 to 1 in 10 ratio. With today's air transport, such an outbreak would quickly "touch" most people in recurring waves over a period of several months to a year or so. If 1/3 gets infected and death rate is 20%, we're talking 500 million dead on a world basis (20M in the US) and there would be nowhere to hide unless you're willing and capable of staying out of human contact for 12-24 months! There would be lots of secondary effects. First, people would argue that it's not happening. Most would keep going out to work and to shop because they need to. After it's officially a thing (expect governments to hide the fact for a while to prevent panic), people will stay home. This affects the operation of power plants, water treatment plants, etc. Certainly some people will be ordered into their possible deaths. It will also be hard to bury people at that rate of bodycount .. and again, it will be hard to find people willing to do that. After it all blows over, world population will be down by 5% or so of the healthiest people (15-45 year olds). This means less consumers, less need for offices, factories, and capital assets; higher demand for workers. Wages will rise and the stock market will utterly tank; prices on cyclicals will rise high ... non-cyclicals will go down. There will be nowhere to hide. Solution ... N95 or better masks. Lots of handwashing. Avoid people as much as possible. Work from home.
Sorry about the wall of text, but that's Jacob in 2017. @Jacob How do you feel about that now?

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Seppia
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Re: Black Swans

Post by Seppia »

Proof number 2728382993 that Jacob is, like, very very smart

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Alphaville
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Re: Black Swans

Post by Alphaville »

he keeps winning the office pool for sure

if anything we’ve dodged some bullets (so far) vs. his worst-case scenario

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Ego
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Re: Black Swans

Post by Ego »

jacob wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:42 pm
My #2 concern is a repeat of the Spanish Flu (H1N1 (standard flu) mutation or similar like H5N1 (bird flu)) that causes a cytokine storm or something equally deadly.
Lots of chatter about H5N1 in the last few days.

https://www.statnews.com/2023/02/08/tra ... o-predict/
A quarter century later, H5N1 has returned to the headlines, with an outbreak at a Spanish mink farm — reported in mid-January — triggering the latest round of fears that the virus might be inching closer to acquiring the ability to easily transmit among humans.

The mink outbreak is concerning, there is no doubt about that. Minks are closely related to ferrets, the animals most often used as a proxy for people when scientists study the characteristics of flu viruses.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/avian-influe ... ard-spread
The H5N1 clade circulating in birds, poultry, and an increasing number of mammals has a mutation that makes the virus more recognizable by mammalian airway cells.

Seven human H5N1 infections have been reported, all involving people who had close contact with poultry. Some illnesses were mild, but some were severe or fatal. So far, no human-to-human transmission has been reported.
Past human infections of H5N1 were similar in age distribution to the 1918 pandemic (young people). It is likely that the regular flu shot provides some level of protection. Up to now the case fatality rate is above 50%.

WFJ
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Re: Black Swans

Post by WFJ »

Start panicking now. The Spanish flu in itself was no more dangerous than any previous flu, what made it deadly was the lack of B flu occurrences prior to 1918. The flu was not the problem, the populations immune system was the primary problem. Old people, who had been exposed to the B flu earlier in their life were left mostly unharmed. Spanish flu killed mostly young people who had not experienced a B flu in their lives, immune system overloaded, and killed them. The danger is in a sick population, not the flu itself, like if governments forced people inside, crippling their immune systems, did not let them exercise for 1-2 years, increasing obesity, this makes any flu dangerous, but no government would be that stupid and ignorant.

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Lemur
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Re: Black Swans

Post by Lemur »

https://amp.france24.com/en/live-news/2 ... o-bird-flu

I take it the concern is if H5N1 mutates and is able to transfer from human to human. Well…that would be bad.

chenda
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Re: Black Swans

Post by chenda »

Lemur wrote:
Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:26 am
https://amp.france24.com/en/live-news/2 ... o-bird-flu

I take it the concern is if H5N1 mutates and is able to transfer from human to human. Well…that would be bad.
I believe it would need to mutate so it can bind to the upper respiratory tract in humans, enabling ease of human to human transmission like common flu.

I suppose this is another argument in favour of vegetarianism ?

Hopefully COVID has been a useful trial run so we will be better prepared for when the next pandemic hits.

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Ego
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Re: Black Swans

Post by Ego »

chenda wrote:
Thu Feb 16, 2023 12:39 pm
Hopefully COVID has been a useful trial run so we will be better prepared for when the next pandemic hits.
I am about halfway through the latest TWiV with Scott Hensley (listening while I run) and it is fascinating. Rather than working on vaccines to induce the production of neutralizing antibodies (sterilizing immunity), his research focuses on creating a single shot MRNA vaccine to induce memory B cells that can adapt and provide cross immunity to a wide variety of H(1-16) N(1-9) viruses. It won't make us immune but it will keep us from dying from a wide variety of pathogens. Seems very promising.

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