I have been reading The Ugly Civilization by Borsodi, as recommended in the blog. I enjoy this book very much and find it extremely well written. The author seems to be able to make incredibly insightful statements using just a few words.
In googling the The Ugly Civilization, I came up with another text, The Homebrew Industrial Revolution, http://www.mutualist.org/id116.html
This text would seem to advise to purchase a home and garden and pay off any debt as a first strategy. In the real world this could be more complicated, for example, one may not be able to earn money in the place one would prefer to buy a home. But the text does provide another strategy to follow after accumulating capital: buy the land and tools one needs to live free of debt and largely outside of the cash economy.
From Chapter 7:
B. The Advantages of Value Creation Outside the Cash Nexus
We already examined, in Chapters Three and Five, the tendencies toward a sharp reduction in the number of wage hours worked and increased production of value in the informal sector. From the
standpoint of efficiency and bargaining power, this has many advantages.
On the individual level, a key advantage of the informal and household economy lies in its offer of an alternative to wage employment for meeting a major share of one's subsistence needs, and the increased bargaining power of labor in what wage employment remains.
How much does the laborer increase his freedom if he happens to own a home, so that there is no landlord to evict him, and how much still greater is his freedom if he lives on a homestead where he can produce his own food?
That the possession of capital makes a man independent in his dealings with his fellows is a self-evident fact. It makes him independent merely because it furnishes him actually or potentially means which he can use to produce support for himself without first securing the permission of other men.
Borsodi demonstrated some eight decades ago—using statistics!—that the hourly “wage” from gardening and canning, and otherwise replacing external purchases with home production, is greater
than the wages of most outside employment.
Contra conventional finance gurus like Suze Orman, who recommend investments like lifetime cost averaging of stock purchases, contributing to a 401k up to the employer's maximum matching
contribution, etc., the most sensible genuine investment for the average person is capital investment in reducing his need for outside income. This includes building or purchasing the roof over his head as cheaply and paying it off as quickly as possible, and substituting home production for purchases with wage money whenever the first alternative is reasonably competitive. Compared to the fluctuation in value of financial investments, Borsodi writes,
the acquisition of things which you can use to produce the essentials of comfort—houses and lands, machines and equipment—are not subject to these vicissitudes.... For their economic utility is dependent upon yourself and is not subject to change by markets, by laws or by corporations which you do not control.
The home producer is free from “the insecurity which haunts the myriads who can buy the necessaries of life only so long as they hold their jobs.” A household with no mortgage payment, a
large garden and a well-stocked pantry might survive indefinitely, if inconveniently, with only one part-time wage earner.
Borsodi and Beyond
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jacob
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Nice find! Also read Borsodi's Escape From The City in which he describes how he set up a homestead.
My concern about the 100% homesteading solution is that it is hard. One question should suffice: How many radishes does one need to sell to pay a dentist bill? Answer: A lot!!!
However, "almost homesteading" is where I'd like to go and where my aims are currently set. Another thing to consider is that when Borsodi wrote his books 80 years ago, the landscape looked different. It's even harder to find good land today. I think "urban homesteading" is a more useful approach. That way it is also easier to maintain a connection with the cash economy (which I consider semi-useful, that is, not entirely useless(*)).
(*) Also, I think that arguing that one has zero control over the stock market is like arguing that one has zero control over a car. This is only true for those who never got any experience driving it.
My concern about the 100% homesteading solution is that it is hard. One question should suffice: How many radishes does one need to sell to pay a dentist bill? Answer: A lot!!!
However, "almost homesteading" is where I'd like to go and where my aims are currently set. Another thing to consider is that when Borsodi wrote his books 80 years ago, the landscape looked different. It's even harder to find good land today. I think "urban homesteading" is a more useful approach. That way it is also easier to maintain a connection with the cash economy (which I consider semi-useful, that is, not entirely useless(*)).
(*) Also, I think that arguing that one has zero control over the stock market is like arguing that one has zero control over a car. This is only true for those who never got any experience driving it.
On a semi-related note, I just finished with this blog post over on the American Interest:
http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/ ... n-dream-i/
It's in large part a critique of the housing boom and bust and how it was propped up for so long even though it was clearly not sustainable -- stuff we've all heard lots of before. But one of the interesting points made was how the "American Dream" as we knew it (owning a home) was actually version 2.0 of the dream. Version 1.0 was owning a farm:
The ideal of the family farm was once even more deeply rooted in American life than the ideal of the owner-occupied home. In the 18th and 19th centuries, the average American family owned and farmed a small piece of land. Cheap land on the frontier made the original American dream accessible to just about anybody. New immigrants and young people would work for a few years to save up money for basic tools and equipment, head west and start up a farm.
At some point both dream v. 1 and 2 offered independence and relative security, but we clung to both dreams far longer than they served that purpose. What do we do now that the path ahead is not clear?
Tying it back to the topic in this thread, it seems like the conventional means of achieving independence in our modern market economy is with sufficient financial resources. But replacing goods and services purchased using financial resources with goods and services of your own production (where feasible and economically viable) is likely even more robust. And a perfect example of this combination may be something like DIY meets frugality meets sound investment practices. You can still take advantage of markets where appropriate, but you're loosely coupled to their failings.
http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/ ... n-dream-i/
It's in large part a critique of the housing boom and bust and how it was propped up for so long even though it was clearly not sustainable -- stuff we've all heard lots of before. But one of the interesting points made was how the "American Dream" as we knew it (owning a home) was actually version 2.0 of the dream. Version 1.0 was owning a farm:
The ideal of the family farm was once even more deeply rooted in American life than the ideal of the owner-occupied home. In the 18th and 19th centuries, the average American family owned and farmed a small piece of land. Cheap land on the frontier made the original American dream accessible to just about anybody. New immigrants and young people would work for a few years to save up money for basic tools and equipment, head west and start up a farm.
At some point both dream v. 1 and 2 offered independence and relative security, but we clung to both dreams far longer than they served that purpose. What do we do now that the path ahead is not clear?
Tying it back to the topic in this thread, it seems like the conventional means of achieving independence in our modern market economy is with sufficient financial resources. But replacing goods and services purchased using financial resources with goods and services of your own production (where feasible and economically viable) is likely even more robust. And a perfect example of this combination may be something like DIY meets frugality meets sound investment practices. You can still take advantage of markets where appropriate, but you're loosely coupled to their failings.
@sky,
As one of our resident homestead resource man (Thanks for sailing the farm the other day) you've got us another very nice find to run away wild with. Truly. EDIT: Oooops... Forgot to mention "Thank you"
@Bendoza,
Thank you, that was an interesting and well-written article, certainly. And your summary/conclusions drawn are well said as well. Self-Reliance is a worthy thing to strive for, not in a survivalist tone but more in a communal tone. Yes, that sounds reasonable. Social Capital has always kept economies booming, and when social capital erodes, the system collapes.
JMG from archdruid report also writes articles that reflect a similar sentiment. Have you read them?
http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/
As one of our resident homestead resource man (Thanks for sailing the farm the other day) you've got us another very nice find to run away wild with. Truly. EDIT: Oooops... Forgot to mention "Thank you"
@Bendoza,
Thank you, that was an interesting and well-written article, certainly. And your summary/conclusions drawn are well said as well. Self-Reliance is a worthy thing to strive for, not in a survivalist tone but more in a communal tone. Yes, that sounds reasonable. Social Capital has always kept economies booming, and when social capital erodes, the system collapes.
JMG from archdruid report also writes articles that reflect a similar sentiment. Have you read them?
http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/
@jacob,
Genuine question for you. Elsewhere you said,
Resource prices are not going to keep going up, up, up, ... price increases are going to stall the economy and crash it which will drop the price.
Here, I read this:
How many radishes does one need to sell to pay a dentist bill? Answer: A lot!!!
I want to understand why the first point won't hold true for things such as retainership fees, lawyer fees, accounting costs, doctor/dentist fees and so on.
If "To kill a mockingbird" (which I read eons ago) is rooted in fact, then not so long ago, some services (such as lawyers' fees) were paid for in kind. You are a geopolitics man yourself and have a good grip on our coming resource scarcity.
In other words, why should lawyer/doctor fees remain high perpetually?
P.S: I am trying to read man, economy, state and making very slow progress (I only got 24 hours and I value rest and peace over other things). If that book might answer my question, just please refer me to a Chapter/Section and I will take it up myself. TIA.
Genuine question for you. Elsewhere you said,
Resource prices are not going to keep going up, up, up, ... price increases are going to stall the economy and crash it which will drop the price.
Here, I read this:
How many radishes does one need to sell to pay a dentist bill? Answer: A lot!!!
I want to understand why the first point won't hold true for things such as retainership fees, lawyer fees, accounting costs, doctor/dentist fees and so on.
If "To kill a mockingbird" (which I read eons ago) is rooted in fact, then not so long ago, some services (such as lawyers' fees) were paid for in kind. You are a geopolitics man yourself and have a good grip on our coming resource scarcity.
In other words, why should lawyer/doctor fees remain high perpetually?
P.S: I am trying to read man, economy, state and making very slow progress (I only got 24 hours and I value rest and peace over other things). If that book might answer my question, just please refer me to a Chapter/Section and I will take it up myself. TIA.
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jacob
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@Surio - I'm usually arguing from a perspective that uses present times. If, for example, a scenario like Kunstler's Long Emergency appears, I'm sure lawyer and accounting services can be had for a few pounds of radishes as they would otherwise be doing field labor (I think Kunstler has it in for the suited jobs). As it is now, 100% homesteading would exclude you economically from a lot of services. How many road side pumpkins does one need to sell to pay real estate taxes? 500 or so?
This may have to do with the fact that food and "stuff" is tremendously cheap in the present economy. If you compare to Borsodi, you'll find this to be the case; comparably speaking food and stuff used to be much more expensive whereas labor used to be cheap. This is why he could make the homestead work by DIY when it came to food and things like weaving cloth. I don't think that makes economic sense today. Now the DIY benefit is not in food and commodities by in financialized categories like housing and transportation and in service fields dominated by "experts" e.g. plumbing, mechanics, electrics, some heatlh, etc.
If labor again becomes cheap and food again becomes expensive, maybe you can get a root canal in exchange for a few sausages.
This may have to do with the fact that food and "stuff" is tremendously cheap in the present economy. If you compare to Borsodi, you'll find this to be the case; comparably speaking food and stuff used to be much more expensive whereas labor used to be cheap. This is why he could make the homestead work by DIY when it came to food and things like weaving cloth. I don't think that makes economic sense today. Now the DIY benefit is not in food and commodities by in financialized categories like housing and transportation and in service fields dominated by "experts" e.g. plumbing, mechanics, electrics, some heatlh, etc.
If labor again becomes cheap and food again becomes expensive, maybe you can get a root canal in exchange for a few sausages.
@Surio: Thanks for the link to the archdruid. I've only read one post, but it was an excellent bit of analysis. I've added it to my RSS reader.
@HSpencer: Glad you liked the article. I've got one more recommendation for this thread, but let me warn you all in advance; it's a bit of a time sink. It's a new documentary airing on the BBC now called "All watched over by machines of loving grace." Great title right?
I've tried to come up with a decent summary, but it's just too difficult. I'll just say that folks interested in systems (which I believe many ERE types are) might enjoy it as it explores our tendency to build systems (financial, political, environmental, technological etc.) that have unforeseen failings and/or tradeoffs when inserted into a messy reality.
Here's the description and trailer:
"This is a story about the rise of the machines...and how they made us believe...we could create a stable world...that would last forever."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... c-YMpgcqKg
And here is episode 1 & 2 in full. Episode 3 will air this week.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz2j3BhL47c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq0xVuRG4ng
It's not without fault, but it covers a lot of very interesting ground.
@HSpencer: Glad you liked the article. I've got one more recommendation for this thread, but let me warn you all in advance; it's a bit of a time sink. It's a new documentary airing on the BBC now called "All watched over by machines of loving grace." Great title right?
I've tried to come up with a decent summary, but it's just too difficult. I'll just say that folks interested in systems (which I believe many ERE types are) might enjoy it as it explores our tendency to build systems (financial, political, environmental, technological etc.) that have unforeseen failings and/or tradeoffs when inserted into a messy reality.
Here's the description and trailer:
"This is a story about the rise of the machines...and how they made us believe...we could create a stable world...that would last forever."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... c-YMpgcqKg
And here is episode 1 & 2 in full. Episode 3 will air this week.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz2j3BhL47c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq0xVuRG4ng
It's not without fault, but it covers a lot of very interesting ground.
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George the original one
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Food staples are way cheaper today than in Borsodi's time. Flour, rice, beans, onions... buy that stuff in 25-50-100 lb sacks instead of trying to grow it yourself.
Seasonal fruits and vegetables are where you'll find the value to growing your own. Select the better tasting varieties that aren't available at the grocer because they spoil quickly or are too susceptible to bruising in shipment.
Seasonal fruits and vegetables are where you'll find the value to growing your own. Select the better tasting varieties that aren't available at the grocer because they spoil quickly or are too susceptible to bruising in shipment.
The Ugly Civilization by Borsodi and many other books available for the good ERE price free at:
http://www.soilandhealth.org/index.html
http://www.soilandhealth.org/index.html
@Jacob
How many radishes for the dentist? Nah, you go to the barber and he pulls the tooth. That's what my grandmother did during the Great Depression.
Seriously, thought, barter is one of those tricky aspects of the alternative economy. It is probably easier to arrive at an exchange of products, i.e. eggs for veg or cord wood for a knitted sweater. When the trade is a product for a service, then the issue becomes how necessary that service is. Perhaps post-crash societies will be smaller (Dunbar number) and more close knit, therefore requiring less of a lawyer's services. I operate on that assumption; though I, for one, am perfectly willing to take my fees in chickens or a nice tool.
How many radishes for the dentist? Nah, you go to the barber and he pulls the tooth. That's what my grandmother did during the Great Depression.
Seriously, thought, barter is one of those tricky aspects of the alternative economy. It is probably easier to arrive at an exchange of products, i.e. eggs for veg or cord wood for a knitted sweater. When the trade is a product for a service, then the issue becomes how necessary that service is. Perhaps post-crash societies will be smaller (Dunbar number) and more close knit, therefore requiring less of a lawyer's services. I operate on that assumption; though I, for one, am perfectly willing to take my fees in chickens or a nice tool.
I've started to read Homebrew Industrial Revolution and it's very much suited to my tastes. In fact it reminded me of a thread I started about a year ago:
viewtopic.php?t=53
Although I've set my sights somewhat lower since then (regarding the price of the house), I think this is the direction I want to go. Save hard for a decent house on a decent plot of land (say 400-500 square meters) and convert that place to live as sustainable as possible. Solar power, solar water heating, vegetable garden. Doing this will seriously limit the impact of inflation in food and energy prices. I'd also love to start doing some woodworking, starting with building small cabinets and maybe even building my own kitchen. For that I need some space which I do not have available in my current apartment.
viewtopic.php?t=53
Although I've set my sights somewhat lower since then (regarding the price of the house), I think this is the direction I want to go. Save hard for a decent house on a decent plot of land (say 400-500 square meters) and convert that place to live as sustainable as possible. Solar power, solar water heating, vegetable garden. Doing this will seriously limit the impact of inflation in food and energy prices. I'd also love to start doing some woodworking, starting with building small cabinets and maybe even building my own kitchen. For that I need some space which I do not have available in my current apartment.
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guitarplayer
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Re: Borsodi and Beyond
Now available for free
I see this as an iteration of ERE four turns ago. It evolved into a very community oriented movement. I am much drawn to this aesthetic, but recognise the critique of community oriented systems.
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Thinking along the lines: if the main goal (only goal?) of a system is self preservation, what are the indispensable parts of a system that meet four ethical standards for emergent movement design.
Also: thinking about formulating a community based presentation of what FIRE is in modern market oriented presentation and ERE in multimodal presentation. Also known as various roads leading to ERE. If community approach includes modern market approach (capitalism with conscience, infinite capitalism), ERE would need to have a community oriented failure mode that is superior to the market oriented failure mode.
I see this as an iteration of ERE four turns ago. It evolved into a very community oriented movement. I am much drawn to this aesthetic, but recognise the critique of community oriented systems.
__________________________________
Thinking along the lines: if the main goal (only goal?) of a system is self preservation, what are the indispensable parts of a system that meet four ethical standards for emergent movement design.
Also: thinking about formulating a community based presentation of what FIRE is in modern market oriented presentation and ERE in multimodal presentation. Also known as various roads leading to ERE. If community approach includes modern market approach (capitalism with conscience, infinite capitalism), ERE would need to have a community oriented failure mode that is superior to the market oriented failure mode.