Boxing: Would that ever be a good idea?

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Boxing: Would that ever be a good idea?

Post by jacob »

I've noted how there's a bunch of "heavy lifters" on the forum complaining about and dealing with this or that tendon or joint while expressing some regrets. Having to deal with long-term and possibly permanent injuries. Also runners, notoriously known for being the healthiest sick patients going to the doctor.

Personally, I've put the kibosh on some sports that I otherwise enjoyed (like hockey and wrecking a knee) in order to avoid "bitching and moaning" whenever I try to stand up from the point of a couch like the average BMI>25 potato.

Boxing sounds fun and interesting from very many perspectives though. OTOH, getting punched in the head/brain just seems like a fundamentally bad idea already!

Anyone with experience in boxing? Me getting close to age 50 but still being able to hang physically with varsity-level 20-30 yos; would getting into boxing be a terrible idea at this point? Relative or absolute?

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Slevin
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Re: Boxing: Would that ever be a good idea?

Post by Slevin »

Boxing is one of the funnest sports IMO if you can find a good teacher and also a place that isn't REALLY focused on competing, just developing good boxing skill / footwork / etc. However, turns out there is a relationship between TBI's and brain health, and TBI's and a lot of neurlogical and motor-sensory issues. Learning boxing footwork and hitting pads held by other people -> really good, one of the best ways of actually developing good footwork, balance, body connections, and spatial recognition within an inch or something (I can hit and get hit from spot X, but not spot Y). It also has a rhythmic component, and can teach you how to create and break rhythms with a partner. Also complex patterning, where you string together complex sequences of moves in a martial way (just martial arts to some degree). There is also something just, masculine, about it? Like some part of the human brain (or maybe just the male brain) really likes hitting other people. I assume its linked with testosterone somehow.

But yeah, getting hit in the head is really bad for your head. So you want to train boxing, and get the large large amount of movement benefits, but you also want to avoid getting punched in the face as much as possible because that will have very negative consequences down the road. Basically you want to mostly practice "mock boxing" for health reasons. I trained for a bit with some other people that were doing it this way, and it was a LOT of fun. I also trained Muay Thai for a few years back a decade ago, and that was also a lot of fun, until I had my ribs broken and other huge injuries, but hey, I was a teen, and that was cool.

Basically go into well rated gyms and ask if you can join and train hard but avoid sparring, be honest that it's for health reasons and fun reasons, but you can't really handle getting more TBI's.
Last edited by Slevin on Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Dave
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Re: Boxing: Would that ever be a good idea?

Post by Dave »

+1

Also very curious about this! I'm approaching mid-30s and been thinking about getting into boxing the last few months due to numerous benefits, but I don't have a great gauge of the risks of doing so.

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Re: Boxing: Would that ever be a good idea?

Post by chenda »

Funnily enough I've just started doing boxing, for fitness and mental health. I'm liking it so far. You can learn the basics in half an hour and you can determine how far you want to participate. You don't have to spar or fight, you can just do shadow boxing or punch bag training.

As noted above sparing can cause long term brain damage and it's best avoided imo. It's a pretty cheap sport as well and you make good progress on your own at home with minimal or no equipment. It's also very satisfying hitting something with force. In terms of body wear-and-tear it's probably a lot easier on your body than grappling like judo or ju jitsu, where osteoarthritis and ligament damage is not uncommon. So I don't think your age is an issue at all if you're just doing it for fitness.

Look up Tony Jefferies on you tube if you want some good instructional videos and info. He's an ex-olympic boxer (and nightclub bouncer) but he is quite candid about the risks of sparring, which he no longer does.

zbigi
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Re: Boxing: Would that ever be a good idea?

Post by zbigi »

Karate is probably better, because hitting on the head is prohibited (well, kicks to the head are not, but kicks are way easier to block). Much less brain damage anticipated. However, you might (i.e. probably will) get tendons and/or joints problems from it if you do it seriously, so it's also not perfect.

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Re: Boxing: Would that ever be a good idea?

Post by M »

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... ith_Boxing

https://med.nyu.edu/departments-institu ... ain-injury

I would not do this ... the brain is much more fragile to repeated head blows than we think, imo.

Even if it only causes mild cognitive impairment it doesn't seem worth it to me to get my head hit over and over.

I would find something else to enjoy that does not involve head impacts..like backpacking, tennis, etc.

IlliniDave
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Re: Boxing: Would that ever be a good idea?

Post by IlliniDave »

Based on all that is being learned regarding football players and basketball players and presumably other athletes susceptible to getting whacked in the head repeatedly (aka CTE) I'd personally be leery of any sport where you look at an opponent and effectively dare them to hit you in the head. Training to box and supervised, non-competitive sparring is probably great exercise and fun though. At pushing 50 you're probably looking at trading elbow and shoulder issues for knee troubles if you're actually training to fight. Let us know how it goes!

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Re: Boxing: Would that ever be a good idea?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Less stupid than riding on the back of a motorcycle being operated by a one-armed man. It can be difficult to come up with ways to get through mid-life crisis without spending money :lol:

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Re: Boxing: Would that ever be a good idea?

Post by chenda »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 2:30 pm
Less stupid than riding on the back of a motorcycle being operated by a one-armed man.
Is that legal ? :o

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Re: Boxing: Would that ever be a good idea?

Post by ffj »

What is the point of boxing if you don't spar? And is sparring worth the price of getting injured?

Seems like those are two questions worth answering. Especially since you aren't in your teens or twenties.

Decades ago I was involved with Tae Kwon Do. I learned 2 things in my brief stay: The real lesson and workout was sparring and sparring hurt, haha. The first time I caught a spinning backhand to my face I realized I knew just enough to get my ass kicked and the only way out of it was to do a lot more fighting. My question would be if you don't spar, are you really learning boxing?

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Re: Boxing: Would that ever be a good idea?

Post by chenda »

ffj wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:12 pm
What is the point of boxing if you don't spar?
There are a lot of physical and mental health benefits to it.

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Re: Boxing: Would that ever be a good idea?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

chenda wrote:Is that legal ? :o
Maybe. His arm is paralyzed not missing. He had a tablespoon welded on to the braking mechanism, so it's easy to push. I have actually been in two significant relationships with men who lost an arm due to risky behavior. Second hand testosterone addiction is a hard habit to break.

ffj
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Re: Boxing: Would that ever be a good idea?

Post by ffj »

@chenda

No doubt it's a killer workout. But if your goal is to learn to box, you've got to get hit and hit others yourself. That's how you learn not to get hit so much. :)

I was just curious what the end goal entailed.

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Re: Boxing: Would that ever be a good idea?

Post by chenda »

Jacob could 'Fight like a physicist' :)

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Viktor K
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Re: Boxing: Would that ever be a good idea?

Post by Viktor K »

I have started a Korean MMA lately, from a friend that's family runs a dojo.

From being in there for just a few months, we do both stand up and ground sparring.

Ground sparring seems more risky for things like small joints e.g. finger sprains and jams. But the advice is to tap early and often, and it is a small dojo so only a few people that the instructor watches pretty closely during sparring. So overall the risk seems pretty acceptable to me.

For stand up sparring, I have heard that boxing can be more intense and high intensity (i.e. brain damage potential) during sparring. Our standup sparring sessions are in taekwondo-like gear (helmets, MMA glove, shin pads, mouth guard) and pretty light.

It seems like there is a tradeoff of high-intensity sparring vs. risk. I have also found undercurrents of "martial arts is not self-defense" and that without sparring it is more like any other physical activity (active, good for healthy).

I've found it fun and there's a lot to learn. Sparring can be real intense cardio-wise, coming close to peak soccer (my other sport) intensity, and surpassing in some ways. I personally wouldn't want to try boxing or anything with more intense sparring, because it does not align with my goals. I think knowing how to throw a punch, fight on the ground - these hopefully never have to be used, but I'm glad I have some knowledge and practice now. It is decent workout, and stimulating mentally. And the risk seems low. Who with and where/if you spar, the intensity level... these all vary across martial arts and dojos.

I am quite comfortable with the risk vs. reward of my current training. The rest of my perspective is all from youtube and reddit.

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Slevin
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Re: Boxing: Would that ever be a good idea?

Post by Slevin »

Viktor K wrote:
Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:50 am
For stand up sparring, I have heard that boxing can be more intense and high intensity (i.e. brain damage potential) during sparring. Our standup sparring sessions are in taekwondo-like gear (helmets, MMA glove, shin pads, mouth guard) and pretty light.
Let’s be clear that boxing headgear is meant to protect your face from cuts and bruises and skull fractures, but there is not good evidence that it will protect against concussions and brain damage from successive blows. I’ll link one of the meta studies talking about the removal of headgear from mens elite competitions and how that decision wasn’t really data backed. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10 ... 21.1872711

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Re: Boxing: Would that ever be a good idea?

Post by theanimal »

I think it's worth it only if you spar. I think it's not worth doing overall as the head trauma is far too great, especially starting older.

I'd suggest checking out jiu jitsu. It's an infinite game that you can spar full out with far less risk of injury and very low risk regarding head trauma. I can choke you out a dozen times a day multiple times a week with no health risk. The same is not true for getting punched in the head, even at a fraction of that level.

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Re: Boxing: Would that ever be a good idea?

Post by M »

I will add judo.

I did this for a year - it was very fun. Mostly defensive in nature and involves a lot of throwing, choke holds, arm bars, counters, ground fighting, using the opponents energy against them, etc.

I got thrown on the mat a lot, which kind of hurts your back after a while, but I don't recall getting hit in the head a lot.

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Re: Boxing: Would that ever be a good idea?

Post by chenda »

Maybe Jacob could clarify what his goals are.

If it's fun or fitness then non-sparring boxing is great fun (even for an uncoordinated dullard like me who struggles with just a jab-straight)

If though he's looking to unleash his inner viking and actually fight then grappling arts are probably a lot safer overall. I briefly tried judo when I was at university but didn't like getting up close and personal with randoms. Though I imagine you can get over that quite quickly.

From what little I know ju jitsu is more diverse where you can develop your own style, whereas judo is more sports oriented and technique restricted ?

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Re: Boxing: Would that ever be a good idea?

Post by Salathor »

I did a ton of sparring in karate as a teen (not for two decades now). It was so, so, fun. By far the best part of martial arts.

If you decide not to spar, I'd avoid the fight sports--I think there are other ways to get the exercise. If I were to sign up for it now, I would still do the sparring, even with the risks. That said, I'm not signing up for a fight sport right now, so I don't have to weigh those choices myself.

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