Christmas gifts

[DutchGirl]

I always start the December month with a cool head: this year, I will not spend so much money. Let's be fair: I've been kind and attentive to my friends and family all year long, I've given some great birthday presents (and some uninspired ones, sorry Linda), I donate to charities, and finally: everybody in my family is in good financial shape of and can buy whatever they truly desire. There is no need to go all out for the holidays, right?

And somehow every year by the time it's halfway December I am spending money left and right.

Why is that?

Part of it might be the media. I think stories about charities and struggling people are produced more often in this month? Plus there are a lot of advertisements for the holidays and for luxury gifts.
Part of it might be tradition? Remembering the past holidays and how they have always been filled with joy and being together, but also with presents.

Any other ideas? And how to withstand the pressure and end the month happy about all aspects of it?

[zbigi]

Perhaps I sway too strongly to the rational side, but I just got tired of buying pointless gifts every year, so I just announced that I will be more neither giving nor expecting them. Same for birthdays. I love the fact that I don't have to spend time on that any more.

[bostonimproper]

I’m a Scrooge on this front, but I’ve tried so many times to tell my family that we should skip Xmas presents (and birthday presents too). They just get me clutter that I end up giving away anyway, and I never know what to get them because anything they might want they could easily and probably have already gotten get themselves! And even if I say, “please don’t send me anything, no gifts” they do it anyway and then I feel bad that I haven’t reciprocated even if I don’t like or use what they got me.

The past couple years I’ve taken to send wagashi (traditional Japanese desserts) which people seem to like? In turn I ask for cash which I then just give back to folks on their birthday. So I guess if I were to give any advice it’d be:
- Food gifts can be relatively cheap to make or procure, medium/high utility, and everyone likes some type of food
- Try to build a circular distribution between the gifts you receive and those you give in future holidays. Cash is great for this (though I guess you can be more circuitous about it and just bank any reimbursements for returned items too)

In terms of charity, I have a giving plan each year to donate a fixed percentage of my income, so any appeals to pull at the heart strings don’t do much for me. If it’s in the charity budget, then sure? But in general I try to be high impact with my giving and a lot of the typical toy drives, etc don’t really speak to me (since, I guess, I don’t really value getting stuff).

[Sclass]

I just had this conversation yesterday with two friends. Both are wealthy.

One said the American middle class is just crazy going into debt each year for this stuff. It’s a tradition. Perhaps rooted in peer pressure. It has become a form of keeping up. One guy was lamenting his sales on his product line plummet because it isn’t a gift and families just stop buying from him starting in November then they need to recover in the spring from xmas debt. Basically his business crashes Oct (Black Friday starts earlier now) till April when tax rebates come in. Every year. I was surprised he saw a signal as early as April since govt checks take awhile to come in. He explained that Americans use file early pay early services that allow you to borrow X% of your rebate to shop as soon as you file so he starts seeing a pickup in business in February.

Oddly while having coffee we were making holiday bread. It’s a tradition. These guys make this super dense loaf of walnut bread to give as gifts to their other well off friends. I mean, it’s the thought right? You cannot buy these guys anything they don’t have. Sometimes I find a gardening tool or a CO detector to put in their garage - something cheap they hadn’t thought of. But in reality the proverbial loaf of holiday bread means so much more than some silly thing we order online. And the bread is actually quite delicious with lots of nuts and liqueurs. I freeze mine and slice off a piece once a month for the following year. It’s not the regifted fruitcake. When I eat it I remember my friend’s attention to detail and adherence to product quality.

The topic wandered on to deals on used motorcycles, PWCs and other adult toys currently available on Craigslist starting around Thanksgiving. We enjoy looking at all the deals that pop up on CL in November. It’s the middle of winter and all these really neat motorcycles pop up on CL. It has to be the worst time to get top dollar for a bike or PWC but there they are at fire sale prices. Our conclusion? Some dumb person needs $5000 for kid’s toys and is dumping his nearly new $10,000 motorcycle for $5000. It happens every year and is the fav topic at our Hollidays GTGs. Stupidity manifested.

The worst was a few years ago one of these guys showed me a listing for a single mom on a dating site who was looking for an FWB relationship with a stable guy who could make Christmas happen (gifts) for her kids. The ad said something like up to three meetups and no more before Christmas. My pal was toying with the idea of contacting her. In the listing she mentioned something about LEGOs. My eyes nearly popped out. Her kids are probably adults now. What would they think if they knew mom basically whored for their Christmas gifts?

It’s an odd scene. Three guys kneading holliday bread passing phones with pictures of motorcycles and whores back and forth while our partners are talking about god knows what in the other room. It’s a freak show.

Between these people I think the biggest gift we can give is information. While we hang out in the kitchen mixing flour and nuts we talk. We share ideas. Methods. Gardening, factory automation, banking, computer software to track their employees, tax, geriatric medicine to name a few. It’s just great to get together and share some thoughts. I certainly walk away richer.

This doesn’t happen with my middle class friends. We talk. Lifestyles are compared competitively. We interrogate over where you’ll stay while on vacation in Hawaii. Home values are discussed. Guys talk about some jewel they’re going to get their wife. The best gift giver at that party is my sister and she’s one of these 65 yo professionals who cannot retire. I got sick of spending Christmas with her because she spends in the thousands for gifts every years. It’s just plain dumb. I get this strange look when they open an LED flashlight or a CO detector I got for them. Hey, a CO detector can save your lives! It’s priceless.

My feeling is it’s a class thing. I’ve got my feet across two social strata. I have this perspective now.

[ffj]

I so wish there were an easy way out of this tradition.

I brought up the subject to my family (siblings and parents) a few years ago that since we were all MIDDLE-AGED, maybe we could stop with exchanging gifts. That didn't go over well. I defended myself, and said no the kids will still receive gifts, just us old folks should opt out. No, no, no said everyone, we love giving and receiving gifts and shut your mouth, haha.

It's so fucking pointless. All we are doing is exchanging money. The most hilarious example is when one person receives a gift card and the other reciprocates back with another gift card, bonus if they are the same amount. Ha!

We're all old enough to have gotten everything we have ever wanted and plus have developed very specific tastes which nobody else would understand. I told my family years ago just get me stuff like soap, toothpaste and razors, stuff that I will actually use and appreciate. But apparently that is too boring for them so I end up with clothes that don't fit for the most part. I'd rather just buy my own clothes.

Christmas morning gifts are for children in my opinion. There is something special about the joy a small child experiences opening up their presents. Let's keep that tradition but once one turns a certain age? They should be able to opt out.

[7Wannabe5]

My extended family has always agreed to inexpensive or alternative gift exchanges. The best year was when the kids were still little, and we all stayed together for a long weekend, and every adult organized an activity as their gift to the group. For instance, one musician sister made up song books and organized sing along, and one athletic BIL rounded up sleds and provided hot chocolate, etc.

[Western Red Cedar]

Here is a thread from last year that might provide some thoughts:

viewtopic.php?t=12197

It took DW and I a few years to establish expectations with siblings about giving and receiving Christmas gifts. I've found the most effective method was to send an email at least two months before Christmas (people start shopping early in the year) as a reminder that we don't plan to exchange gifts with adults, but will still be sending nieces/nephews presents. We've found in the past that a December message is usually too late.

I remind them that we are a minimalist household and would like to limit consumption and our impact on the planet during the holiday season. As a result, we ask that they not give us physical gifts over the holidays. If they feel strongly about giving, they are welcome to buy us a gift certificate/card to a local restaurant, or donate to a charity of their choice in our name. This has been well received, at least in part because almost everyone in our family can relate to the clutter or non-consumerism.

We still receive a few gifts every year. I'll also buy some things for DW that we actually enjoy, such as good quality candles, nice chocolate, bath products, or tickets to a broadway show.

[Dave]

I so wish there were an easy way out of this tradition.

Amen.

Some people in my life our amenable to it, but others absolutely reject it. The utter outrage - not exchanging gift cards for the same dollar amount is too much to handle.

I've taken a harder line with those in my immediate circle, but am less forceful for my wife's side. In the end it's basically a wash as we are generally able to steer gift cards/gifts towards things we would end up buying.

But the absolute worst is when there are no gift card rules, and you end up with absolute junk, leading to the awkwardness of next year's Friendsmas and being the only couple who opted out, hah.

[chenda]

I love Christmas, everything about it. Reciprocal gift giving is an old human tradition going back to prehistory, and whilst it is pointless at one level (especially vouchers) it's a sort of noble tradition. Obviously the consumerism has got out of hand, but with a bit of communication and moderation it need not be a problem.

I don't give to charity, and I do get a bit irritated by those pull-at-heart-strings adverts like 'poor Charlie will be spending Christmas on the streets tonight, will you help her ? ' then cutting to a black and white freeze frame because it's Christmas and they need to double down on the guilt they want you to feel because you have the heating on full blast and are gorging on mulled wine and Waitrose mince pies, but anyway...

You could ask people to buy say, a goat on your behalf for a family in Africa. I did that once, and you get a picture of said goat with a smiling family. Whether you actually are buying a goat or the money just goes into some 'goat fund' which mostly prints paternalistic pictures of grateful Africans I am unsure, but I trust at least some of the money is doing some good.

[Sclass]

a few years ago that since we were all MIDDLE-AGED, maybe we could stop with exchanging gifts. That didn't go over well.

Christmas morning gifts are for children in my opinion.

Exactly! I told my sister for years (she always asks what do I like) I am not an effing kid. Get me nothing. Save your money and invest it. This was like twenty years ago. She didn’t take my advice. It’s going to be a hard landing for her because she was counting on her “rich” in-laws who turned out to be stealth broke. That is they looked rich but they were secretly paupers. Their old age has become a living hell. They did have a really nice Christmas complete with the yearly purchase of a hallmark animated ornament and a Thomas Kincaid winter scene painting - they have one for every Christmas going back to the 80s.

I remind them that we are a minimalist household and would like to limit consumption and our impact on the planet during the holiday season.

@WRC as cool as this sounds you remind me of those oddball family friends my parents met in 60s Berkeley. The one family that wouldn’t let their kids watch TV. The ones who said they gave us gifts and listed the charities they gave them to in our names. They’d come to Christmas dinner dressed in batik and beads they bartered for in Indonesia while volunteering. It was a bummer to hear when I was a kid but now I get it.

[chenda]

Thomas Kincaid winter scene painting - they have one for every Christmas going back to the 80s.

His paintings are so sickly they give your eyes diabetes. But he was a very astute businessman, I'll give him that.

[ffj]

My old joke is that I'm going to become a Jehovah Witness for the month of December and then come the new year revert to being a pagan.

I understand why people want to give gifts, it makes them feel good. But my question is why isn't the fact that we are all together and sharing a good meal good enough after a certain point?

Speaking of such things too are the questions about surprise birthday and anniversary gifts. My wife told me very early on in our relationship to stop trying to surprise her with anything as you'll just get it wrong most times. I'll let you know what I want and when, and it doesn't have to wait for any particular day.

There is a reason I married her.

[mountainFrugal]

After asking for "nothing" for Christmas since I was in high school, this year might be my lucky year! Mom said she was finally not going to be giving gifts, only for my niece.

We usually give board games to kids/teens or make origami ornaments for adults.

A few years ago my partner and I exchanged some small gifts that would fit inside of a ski sock. I asked what things go into a stocking? She said practical things and little treats. I filled hers with a 10 pack of the deodorant she uses and a few clementines. This went over about as well as to be expected. She has not run out of the deodorant though! The gift that keeps on giving! The next year I got her a high carbon steel Morakniv swedish fixed blade knife and a striker. She has made many fires with this after wanting to learn! This went over better. Now we just do ski or running socks if we need them. I currently do not need any. .

[OutOfTheBlue]

Christmas may not be the best time to figure out anticonsumerism, but it helps if most everyone is onboard.

Not always easy to overcome the network effect and not yield to social or internalized pressure, especially if kids are involved, but it could be even more important to resist the temptation and give a different example in that case.

It sure is a pleasure to share moments together, as it can be to give and receive tokens of love and affection.

But exchanging gifts predates this over-commodified travesty (see gift societies).

If the spirit or Christmas has somehow survived its consumerist perversion, it could well do without monetary gifts. What is it all about, really?

If giving is a joy, why not take the time to craft your own gifts, for instance, infusing them with personality, thoughtfulness and symbolic significance.

[Frita]

At least here, the stores started selling Christmas stuff in August! Suddenly, the gift buying season extended at least a couple more months so people have no excuse. Whatever, it’s not our thing.

My in-laws are not gift exchangers, but my family had/has the custom. In our mid-20s, we stopped for waste-reduction reasons. We may exchange something small like a nice bar of chocolate or a needed item. My mom still sends money and makes a homemade card to honor our anti-consumerism thing.

As a nuclear family, we do special activities and not necessarily things that cost a cent (walking around looking at the lights, making cookies, skiing together). The kids were trained young to be thrilled with things they need like a nightlight, new clothes, a sleeping bag, etc. and coupons (choice of dinner, stay up late, play a board game, etc.). When they believed, Santa did bring one toy each. This year the gift is a bit more lux, new velvet flannel sheet sets from Lands End.

On Christmas morning, we eat homemade cinnamon rolls, have an extra cup of coffee/milk, and drink juice (a rare treat as it’s just liquid sugar, not me as I really don’t like fruit). This is the one meal we do not eat at the table.

We make an effort to talk with old friends and spend time with the current ones. There are no Jones to keep up with. Christmas day dinner is a potluck of apps hosted by a friend with other friends. We jockey to sit in front of the fire. I enjoy helping wash dishes as it gives me a break.

It seems that having rituals helps to avoid whatever is going on elsewhere. Each year we discuss what went well, what we’d like to skip, and new things to try. This really helps reduce any stress or anxiety. So much better than the crazy times of my youth!

[unemployable]

I don't have many friends or relatives, so that helps. This year I'm traveling/vagabonding/housesitting and have made it clear I'm already carrying around everything I need and any more stuff is counterproductive. Not that I have a reliable address gifts could be send to in the first place. They could get me gift cards for gas or groceries but there's no guarantee wherever I go will have those specific merchants.

So there's your solution: Make the physical act of giving impossible.

One guy was lamenting his sales on his product line plummet because it isn’t a gift and families just stop buying from him starting in November then they need to recover in the spring from xmas debt. Basically his business crashes Oct (Black Friday starts earlier now) till April when tax rebates come in. Every year. I was surprised he saw a signal as early as April since govt checks take awhile to come in. He explained that Americans use file early pay early services that allow you to borrow X% of your rebate to shop as soon as you file so he starts seeing a pickup in business in February.

If this is a highly discretionary/luxury product I understand there's a bump in January when bonus checks come in. You definitely see this with things like sports cars and hot tubs, especially the latter, because everyone wants a hot tub when it's cold, moreso than a Lambo. Usually people are spending on themselves.

[ertyu]

I know people who enjoy gift-giving. The process of searching and finding a thing which a loved one would love and enjoy makes them feel close to that person and is an expression of love (because to give a good gift, you need to love someone). It makes them feel loved to receive a present which shows a loved one knows them and has put in effort into finding something they know would please them. It feels very hurtful when they're given a gift that feels like it was an afterthought or that reflects the fact that they aren't known. I am not one of them, my relationship with gifts got soured early on as my parents always bought presents for who they wished i was rather than for who i kept telling them i was (think preppy shirt vs. band t-shirt). Receiving gifts got associated with disappointment and with being continuously shown I am dissatisfactory and I don't meet expectations. So while I'm a generous person when it comes to material things, I never really learned to feel joy in gift-giving: I didn't know it was there to feel until fairly late in life when I met and spoke with people to whom gift-giving was important.

Currently, I also do not engage with gift-giving, down to not participating in the office secret santa, and find it a relief. But I might be able to enjoy it in the context of a solid relationship built on mutual trust.

I personally enjoy handcrafted items. On my laptop desktop, for instance, is a piece of digital art a friend made and gifted me following a discussion. It makes me happy.

[jacob]

I just went through our regifting box.

It's full of generic "I thought you might like this"-stuff bought in the process of recreational shopping. Tags still attached. Items valued around the $5-20 level I think(?!), I'd never buy any of it myself. Each xmas is a struggle of trying to hide how much I don't appreciate the incoming clutter.

However, perhaps we could turn this win-lose situation into a forum win-win by combining it with the Trash and Treasure forum exchange?

I have various men's socks, gloves, guest room towels ("live, love, laughter" style), place mats, drinking bottles, ... including things I have no idea what is or does. Ohhh ... one is a small handcrafted pouch for holding kleenex, I shit you not. Also see, https://earlyretirementextreme.com/on-nose-blowing.html

I can make a detailed list and send pictures if anyone is interested. Probably mostly useful for someone who hasn't arranged a total cease-fire yet and need bulk ammo for gifting random aunts and uncles and office parties.

[jacob]

Just to note ...

Many don't actually put all that much thought [about the receiver] when it comes to giving ... so maybe don't feel too bad about the state of the world as it is.

It can be anywhere between "I liked this so you ought to like it too", "These are the types of gifts we usually hand to each other", ..., over to "I've paid a great deal of attention and I think this would increase our mutual connection".

Gift-giving is a form of communication. Tradition forces such communication to happen at regular intervals.

[DutchGirl]

guest room towels ("live, love, laughter" style)

Dear heavens! Burn them, please!

Or wait, donate to an animal shelter. I'm told dogs and cats can't read so it shouldn't affect their mood negatively.

Gloves would be welcome here, but yeah, I doubt you'd want to send them all the way to Europe.