What I Spend

[ertyu]

I found the gender-coding argument very insightful, thank you @bi. When I rummage around my own preconceived notions, I also discover that male-coded labor somehow feels more "legitimate" to pay for and off-source - probably because I am also prejudiced to see it as more skilled and therefore somehow more valued. Definitely stuff to think about here, at least for me. Thank you.

[zbigi]

I found the gender-coding argument very insightful, thank you @bi. When I rummage around my own preconceived notions, I also discover that male-coded labor somehow feels more "legitimate" to pay for and off-source - probably because I am also prejudiced to see it as more skilled and therefore somehow more valued. Definitely stuff to think about here, at least for me. Thank you.

Let's not kid ourselves - male labor is, on average, more skilled. Fixing any technical contraptions (plumbing, electric wiring etc.) requires significant amount of skill. Much less people can fix a leaking pipe than cook a decent meal. Not to mention the responsiblity - badly done "manly" work can easily kill people (there were just recently cases in Poland where a child died due to shoddy electric work done by the father, and another case where a badly attached bathroom boiler crushed a child to death). Although this could be matched by "women's work" of constantly minding small children and making sure they don't harm themselves.

[ducknald_don]

Let's not kid ourselves - male labor is, on average, more skilled.

I don't believe that. Now that brute strength is rarely required for any of these jobs I can see no reason why women can't do them.

[zbigi]

I don't believe that. Now that brute strength is rarely required for any of these jobs I can see no reason why women can't do them.

Yes, of course. I speak about traditional male/female labor divisions and preferences, not theoretical ability. Not to mention that strength is still not insignificant part of doing say renovation work. One of the worst parts of renovating my apartment was carrying 25 kg bags of cement to the fourth floor (no elevator in the building).

[Scott 2]

I committed to a 6.5 mile trail run in mid-March. As of now, the goal is to finish. It feels ambitious and focusing.

I need to figure out training through the winter, as well as sort my food and sleep. This requires learning to eat well with braces.

Earning back my neutral grip pull-up is slower than I'd hoped. I'm down to a 25lb deficit, from 40, but won't get the remainder by year end. My food and sleep have been poor. Recovery training for the trail run should help. I'm now looking to end of January.


I haven't been back to the food bank since November. I am troubled by how volunteer time is valued. It discourages me from doing more.

[classical_Liberal]

I haven't been back to the food bank since November. I am troubled by how volunteer time is valued. It discourages me from doing more.

This may just be something that takes time. My stepfather volunteered at a food bank, a couple of times a week for over five years (winters off, he was a snow bird). He passed away last year. Interestingly, a quarter of the people at his funeral (dozens), were fellow volunteers or paid workers from that food bank. This was a surprise, even to my mother. I came to find out they shut it down for the afternoon so everyone could attend if they wanted. His time was absolutely highly valued there.

I'm not saying you should keep doing it if you don't like it, just that the longer you commit to it, the more you will probably be valued.

[Scott 2]

@cL - I agree. Just not sure I want to commit.


I am working on next year's budget. Here's a roll up for 2022. I used the planned amounts for December, so we'll likely end a little under $44k:

2022 Total (Couple) - $44301
Healthcare/Medical - $11953
Groceries - $7710
Home Maintenance - $6024
Taxes - $5225
Exercise - $3098
Utilities - $2904
Automotive - $1935
Pets/Pet Care - $1680
Entertainment - $1574
Clothing/Shoes - $1447
Phone/Email - $393
Streaming - $215
Video Games - $137
Restaurants - $6
Travel - $0

Our original budget was closer to $57k. About $10k of the difference is from medical care either deferred to 2023, or not happening.

We try to be conservative when budgeting, which accounts for the other $3k of underage. Bad luck could have easily eaten that amount.

Most interesting to me - our cat was almost as expensive as our car.

For anyone making direct comparisons - we have no mortgage or car payment. The imputed value of those assets would add $12-15k per year.

[ertyu]

1. I love your restaurant spending, truly a goal to aspire to
2. Please cat pictures

[candide]

2022 Total (Couple) - $44301
Exercise - $3098
...
Restaurants - $6

This speaks volumes, in my opinion. ETA: to be clear, since is the internet, I mean in a good way.

Any amusing story behind the $6? You were stuck out somewhere and went off a value menu?

[mathiverse]

I am another person impressed by your restaurant spending! Hopefully I can follow in your footsteps!

[MBBboy]

Not sure I buy this gender component to work - the difference is skilled vs unskilled labor. The reason you aren't expected to do you own plumbing, or accounting, or electrical work etc isn't because those are male dominated fields - its because they are difficult and often require licensing or trade training. Washing dishes, sweeping, and cleaning toilets isn't difficult. It's not a gender thing at all.

For example - hiring out childcare (nanny or daycare) is very common and a female dominated field. Its difficult and there are regulations and licenses that are often required.

[Scott 2]

@candide - Nothing big behind the $6. I wanted a couple donuts from the good place. Since I was there, I got my wife one too. Exercise spending brought a lot of fun into our lives - swimming, lifting, running, biking, kayaking, etc. It was a more enjoyable use of time and money.


@mathiverse - What's weird about the restaurant spending, is we didn't plan it. I've seen Jacob claim you lose interest and always thought that was absurd. But here we are. There's been a confluence of factors:

1. Covid broke the pattern of eating out. We learned to make replacement foods. We learned replacement activities with friends / family.

2. The restaurant experience felt worse when we came back. Long lines. Unreliable food quality / availability. Higher prices. It's hard to say how much of this was real, opposed to seeing the experience with fresh eyes. But I made multiple attempts to get donuts or a burrito this year, only to give up because of the line or a place being closed.

3. The times we ate out in 2021, didn't leave us feeling our best. Our diet has shifted - less sugar, less refined. It feels better. I suspect this relates to the perceived drop in food quality. My palate is less enamored with a bomb of salt / sugar / fat. It feels a little overwhelming, approaching gross. When I was eating out all the time, I had the opposite experience. Home food felt boring.

4. We take restaurant spending out of our discretionary money, meaning it's "cheaper" to eat home food. If I do want something like pizza or dessert, I am incentivized to grab it from the grocery store. It's not like popping into Aldi takes longer.

So there's no plan to continue or break the pattern. Our 2023 budget drops tracking of restaurant spend entirely.


@MBBboy - I've also paid a handyman to do things like install a bidet, clean a sink trap, tighten a door knob, cover a window well, etc. Traditionally gendered work, with minimal skill required. I do buy the distinction. I think when you look at a field like home nursing care, there's also skilled "women's" work that raises the feelings of guilt.


@ertyu - Obligatory cat tax. This guy was one of our foster kittens, now about 9 years old:

[shaz]

@scott 2 have you ever looked into volunteering at the shelter in addition to fostering? It might give you the benefits of a volunteer experience, such as building human relationships, in a setting you find more comfortable or rewarding. Another idea would be to volunteer to help with posting photos and profiles of adoptable animals for a rescue organization.

[bostonimproper]

D’aww what a cute kitty!

[Scott 2]

@shaz - we've fostered with a variety of shelters over the years, having varying degrees of responsibility. My mom was heavily involved with the animal shelter in her town, sitting on the board for years. At one point, my wife and I even traveled to Best Friends, so we could volunteer there for a week.

Fostering is great. You get to play with kittens or a dog, then give the animal(s) back once you are done. I enjoy it.

Having been broadly exposed, I don't have interest in volunteering at the animal shelter, especially in our area. They are tremendously well supported. Interesting work goes to competitive paid positions. For any volunteers - they expect a minimum 1 year commitment. There's no shortage of help, especially given that I have zero desire to clean cages.

I might be able to use our foster relationship to get a weekly shift, but I'd be displacing somebody else. It doesn't feel like a value add.

[shaz]

@scott 2 understood. I have very pleasant memories of my time fostering kittens but I also have strong reasons for not doing it now.

[jacob]

@mathiverse - What's weird about the restaurant spending, is we didn't plan it. I've seen Jacob claim you lose interest and always thought that was absurd. But here we are. There's been a confluence of factors:

1. Covid broke the pattern of eating out. We learned to make replacement foods. We learned replacement activities with friends / family.

2. The restaurant experience felt worse when we came back. Long lines. Unreliable food quality / availability. Higher prices. It's hard to say how much of this was real, opposed to seeing the experience with fresh eyes. But I made multiple attempts to get donuts or a burrito this year, only to give up because of the line or a place being closed.

3. The times we ate out in 2021, didn't leave us feeling our best. Our diet has shifted - less sugar, less refined. It feels better. I suspect this relates to the perceived drop in food quality. My palate is less enamored with a bomb of salt / sugar / fat. It feels a little overwhelming, approaching gross. When I was eating out all the time, I had the opposite experience. Home food felt boring.

4. We take restaurant spending out of our discretionary money, meaning it's "cheaper" to eat home food. If I do want something like pizza or dessert, I am incentivized to grab it from the grocery store. It's not like popping into Aldi takes longer.

So there's no plan to continue or break the pattern. Our 2023 budget drops tracking of restaurant spend entirely.

This parallels the experience with a lot of other things. I recall AH's recent comment along the lines of spending 60-70k before but then speed-running the WLs so fast that spending that much now seems absurd in retrospect. I've never spent that much, so I couldn't imagine it in the first place.

For me it's rather similar to my restaurant experience except I did it in reverse. In Denmark, eating out was and still is very expensive, so many only go out to eat (going out to drink is a whole other matter!) for major celebrations like weddings, anniversaries, ... (of course there are exceptions but that's mostly a foodie thing). My parents weren't great cooks. On a scale of 1 to 10 where 5 is a $30/plate restaurant, I'm a 6 and DW going all out is an 8, they were a 3. Sorry mom! During my undergraduate years after I moved away from home, I spent about 30-60 minutes every night perusing vegetarian cookbooks and trying new things until I could make up my own recipes according to my preferences.

So yeah, +1 to your (2). Kinda nuts to stand in line, wait for 30+ minutes, and sit in a loud room, paying 10x the price for a meal that's slightly worse than what I can eat a home for the price of doing the dishes. Also +1 to your (3) as well. During my finance stint I've have some 9 on the ten-scale meals at $100+/plate courtesy of the company, but the sweetened salt bombs of porkfat fried in duckfat ... was usually 10 minutes of pleasure followed by 10 hours of regret. Maybe TMI. But restaurant food as well as processed food is just different in kind. Far more salt for starters. And +1 to your (4). I never understood how this whole idea that going out saves time. It may have other benefits, but I'll race anyone in terms of feeding themselves wrt home cooking + cleanup vs going out. Learning to cook takes time, cooking does not.

Maybe if more restaurants had a BYOF(ood) similar to BYOB, I'd start going.

[Ego]

3. The times we ate out in 2021, didn't leave us feeling our best.

The restaurant down the street is a very healthy place to have an elegant dinner. Tuesday mornings a pumper truck comes to empty their grease traps. The smell is unbelievably horrible. I am convinced that if their customers smelled it once they would be unable to eat there.

[jacob]

Insofar there ever was place within a 10 minute walking distance where I could buy a nutritionally balanced meal worth 2000kcal for $3, I'd stop cooking and go there all the time. Pour on the rice and beans and vegetables. As it is ... I/we had to create our own solution, because I/we can, and because the efficient market doesn't offer it.

I'm guessing that the reason such places don't exist is because "going-out"-type consumers don't demand it and correctly thinks of "going out" as an upgrade from heating up a preprocessed TV dinners. On the flip-side of that, there are "community-dinners" with warfare food, pressure cooked potatoes, and worse. Eating campy "emergency-food" is only something you do if you have to.

Does anyone know any examples (whatsoever) of the market catering to the middle of these extremes? The ballpark of 2000kcal for $3. I can do this at home, but I could do for less if I had the benefit of scale feeding 50-100 people per day.

[shaz]

@jacob you might not be able to do it for less if you had to pay staff, rent, insurance, business license.