Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Simple living, extreme early retirement, being wealthy, ...
M
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Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by M »

Also you can replace 'God' here with anything really. The source of the universe, the source of your life, your neurons, or you can simply let go of things and view it as a sort of mental training.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Anxiety and arousal are simultaneously very near things yet mutually exclusive. In any situation where your arms and legs aren't confined by plastic wrap, autonomy or agency allows for the possibility of converting anxiety into arousal through acquisition of control or competence. Absent autonomy or agency, the ability to internally relax oneself enough to release anxiety is often mediated through "trust", whether that trust is in God, the Universe, the Emperor, or just the other human who is dangling you over the deck. This is one reason why it is sometimes hard for those of us raised in affluent society that promotes "rugged individualism" to comprehend that some might actually find the social cohesion of a strict authoritarian hierarchy pleasurable.

M
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Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by M »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 11:48 am
Anxiety and arousal are simultaneously very near things yet mutually exclusive. In any situation where your arms and legs aren't confined by plastic wrap, autonomy or agency allows for the possibility of converting anxiety into arousal through acquisition of control or competence. Absent autonomy or agency, the ability to internally relax oneself enough to release anxiety is often mediated through "trust", whether that trust is in God, the Universe, the Emperor, or just the other human who is dangling you over the deck. This is one reason why it is sometimes hard for those of us raised in affluent society that promotes "rugged individualism" to comprehend that some might actually find the social cohesion of a strict authoritarian hierarchy pleasurable.
I feel obligated to bring this conversation back to sex now.

Some women I have been with - including my wife - have been very into BDSM and are 'very' submissive. I never understood the appeal much until it was explained to me that by being completely submissive to a loving and trustworthy partner one can 'let go' and surrender themselves and this brings about a state of deep peace and relaxation, especially afterward.

I imagine this is, perhaps, the same process.

zbigi
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Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by zbigi »

M wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:17 am
For example, are you afraid of getting fired? Why? Then you will have no money. Why are you scared of running out of money? Well then you might be homeless. Why are you scared of homelessness? Well you might freeze/starve to death then. So the fear of death is why you are scared of being fired.

You can trace back most fears to the fear of death.
I don't think that's right. When you ask most people about their fears related to old age, most of them are not afraid of death per se, but of being incapacitated or riddled with some horrible illness (at least that's the answers I've heard in Poland). So, people are mostly affraid of pain and of discomfort. Similarly, when people are afraid of losing their jobs, they aren't afraid of ending up dying on the streets, but of having to endure great discomfort of having to go through unemployment, job hunt, potentially having to work in some shitty job and having lower life standard. People are mostly really loss awerse and the vision of losing their current comfort level is distressing for them.

M
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Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by M »

zbigi wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 12:54 pm
I don't think that's right. When you ask most people about their fears related to old age, most of them are not afraid of death per se, but of being incapacitated or riddled with some horrible illness (at least that's the answers I've heard in Poland). So, people are mostly affraid of pain and of discomfort. Similarly, when people are afraid of losing their jobs, they aren't afraid of ending up dying on the streets, but of having to endure great discomfort of having to go through unemployment, job hunt, potentially having to work in some shitty job and having lower life standard. People are mostly really loss awerse and the vision of losing their current comfort level is distressing for them.
Yes - this is why I used the 'most fears' keyword here. :lol:

Death is a form of loss of life. A loss of mobility or comfort are also forms of loss. In fact, a lot of people go through these losses of comfort and mobility and perhaps loss of some pleasures in life before death anyway, regardless of financial losses.

We can go through these sorts of contemplative exercises to help surrender the fear in both cases.

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Jean
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Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by Jean »

life is good, and fear very probably prevented my life from ending several times.
I love my fear, it allows me to try new things without dying.
One very noticeable symptom of depression is absence of fear.
This is true to the point that if i deem a fear irrational, i can recall of how it was to be depressed and get rid of the fear.
On the opposite, getting into new situations that spawned new fears was a great step out of depression.

I think ancient gods were personification of emotions.

chenda
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Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by chenda »

People who have had Near Death Experiences (NDEs) usually report positive experiences of joy, meeting deceased love ones, a feeling of coming home, a warm loving presence of loving of bliss.

But a minority report hellish experiences, including that their whole life and loved ones were a illusion, that they are utterly alone in the universe, that nothing exists but them, deeply disturbing stuff.

Unfortunately there does not seem to be much correlation between good and bad experiences and good or bad people. Murderers and rapists in jail have reported positive NDEs.
Jean wrote:
Fri Oct 28, 2022 7:15 am
I think ancient gods were personification of emotions.
Jean if you are interested in Polytheism this academic might be of interest to you:

https://henadology.wordpress.com/

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Lemur
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Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by Lemur »

If you don’t believe in free will, then you can be kinder to yourself. I find that even small bouts of mindful meditation to be useful. About 5 minutes worth. Perhaps even preferable. I think I chase long-term well-being even if it means I’ve to experience pain in the short run. I’ve come to appreciate that pain as part of the process.

AnalyticalEngine
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Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by AnalyticalEngine »

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/1 ... 0psychosis

Found an interesting paper on some case studies where meditation caused psychosis. The takeaways are:

1. Open awareness, guided, and group meditation is less risky than focused awareness or self-transcendence.
2. Keep to less than 1 hour a day.
3. Make sure you eat enough and get enough sleep. Mixing it with fasting or sleep deprivation can be dangerous.
4. Social isolation is a risk factor for adverse effects.
5. Pre-existing conditions are obviously a risk factor, so if you have those, stick with the safer forms of meditation first.

Now what I find interesting is that a lot of religious traditions (and even Plotkin) encourage you to push the limit by meditating for hours a day, mixing it with fasting, etc. Like Plotkin has you do a multiple day fast in the wilderness, etc, which is most certainly going to induce an altered state of consciousness.

LookingInward
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Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by LookingInward »

Hello again. As always my perfectionism got in the way of replying to a thread I created myself lol.

Unfortunately the last week was quiet hard for me (illness) but I still managed to think about the original point of the thread. I've realize that, over the years, I molded myself to always try to finish my job as fast as possible in order to get to "real life". There is some merit to that idea, but for me it resulted in automatic thought patterns that cause anxiety, disappointment and lack of meaning. My objective is the exact opposite: I want to leave a life free of stress and anxiety about ridiculous things. For example I don't see it as a bad thing that I get anxious about doing something new but that I recognize can bring me a lot of value long-term. I don't want sound self-righteous but this is what I think a brave person would do and I want to be that person.

So, I feel stuck. I feel like I don't have the tools to think my way out of this. I go to a therapist from time to time and she has became sort of a mentor to myself. However I want to be more self-directed instead of always relying on 3rd parties to hold my hand (that's also something I want go get over).

By the way, it seems that YouTube knows me quite well as I was recommended a video about something called delayed life syndrome: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mRnxl_FlvCs&t=447s. I want to break this pattern but I think that it's probably more "productive" to look at what other people think about these topics, instead of trying to reinvent the wheel.

Based on my scattered thoughts, does someone has any recommendations where I can learn more about myself and how to "live a good life"?

Maybe it will seem like I'm trying to juggle 30 ideas at the same time. I see it as a symptom about my current state of confusion and quest to "find the truth", if there even is such a thing.

Thank you =)

ertyu
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Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by ertyu »

LookingInward wrote:
Sat Dec 03, 2022 5:59 am
Based on my scattered thoughts, does someone has any recommendations where I can learn more about myself and how to "live a good life"?
Oooh, a fellow navel-gazer! Let me give this one a try as the forum's resident couch potato.

You say you want to be a brave person. You say you can't think yourself out of this one.

Well, cool.

Do yourself out of it, then.

What do I mean by this?

You've already spent some time trying to think about things, watching youtube videos about helpful concepts, talking to a therapist, etc. All good and useful things. I think the next step is to try and crack this experientially.

How you can live a good life? Idk dude, one person can answer and that person is you - my good life and your good life will be different. So do some experimenting and try to find out what your good life is. Here's the steps:*

(*) this is an actual cognitive behavioral therapy exercise

1. Get yourself a journal or notebook that appeals to you and that looks like something you'll write in.
2. Sit down and brainstorm a bunch of activities you could be doing. These do not need to be the "right" activities. They just need to be activities: a hike? Take the bus to a neighborhood you've never been to and walk around? Find out where your local library is and visit? Look up an exercise video of something you like doing. Look up an exercise video of something you'd never even think of doing (e.g. a "girly" barre workout if you are a dude). Idk, these are the ones my brain is coming up with. Come up with some. They don't even need to be particularly fun or pleasant. They could be long or short. Brainstorm ... many. 50. 50 is a good number (it will be hard to make 50 you'll end up having to resort to ridiculous things -- wear two different color socks? -- this is the goal).
3. Choose how often you want to do this exercise given the rest of the schedule. 3x a week? Every other day?? Once a week? Once you decide, commit to it. A year has 52 weeks. Commit to doing the exercise.
4. Choose one activity from the list. You can use a random number generator, you can point with your eyes closed, or you can simply go down the list. Or up the list. Doesn't matter.
5. In your journal, write a thing that predicts what doing this activity will be like and how much you think you'll enjoy it on a scale of 1 to 10. You think it'll be lame and a complete waste of time and be complete cringe because [reasons] and you'll engoy it 1? Cool. Write that.
6. Now go do the activity.
7. After you've done it, sit with your journal. Journal about how the activity actually was. Good parts? Bad parts? Ways in which it wasn't how you thought it would be?
8. The following week, return to number 4. Repeat through 7 for a different activity.

A bunch of things will happen:

- you'll learn a bunch of stuff about yourself and your preconceptions.
- you'll have stuff to discuss with your therapist.
- you'll compare your predictions with how the actual experience was, and over time, you will learn where you tend to underestimate or overestimate experiences
- you'll have tried a bunch of stuff out of your comfort zone and you'll have been brave
- you will learn more about what aspects of what activities appeal to you and why. you will get better at designing activities that incorporate more of those aspects.
- you'll have done a bunch of stuff and you'll have thought a bunch of deep thoughts about it, and you'll be more interesting at parties
- bit by bit, you'll get unstuck

godspeed and good luck

ertyu
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Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by ertyu »

M wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 5:14 pm
Some of the best accounts that are similar which I read came from the David R. Hawkins books, which is where I learned the non-dual meditation practices.
what order would you recommend one reads them in? there seem to be quite a bunch

M
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Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by M »

ertyu wrote:
Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:00 am
what order would you recommend one reads them in? there seem to be quite a bunch
hmmm....

This sort of depends on your goals. David Hawkins was a psychiatrist who turned to the spiritual path. There is a lot of very good information in the books, however, I would take the information you find useful and disregard the rest. It is all a mental framework to help someone transform their mind and subjective experience of life.

I read power vs force first, then Eye of the I, then I: Reality and Subjectivity. After I read this last book is when I started having a lot of strange spiritual experiences.

If you only buy one of his books I would recommend Letting Go: The pathway of surrender, for general happiness and acceptance and inner peace.

If your goal is enlightenment I would read Discovery of the Presence of God: Devotional Nonduality

After doing a lot of research in this area and having a lot of experiences I believe a person can change their subjective experience of life by changing how they think and through the practices mentioned in the books.

I can also say that the experience of enlightenment is a real thing that occurs at a certain point along the path, and one can accept this and move forward or reject it as I did and go back to your everyday life.

The larger question of if consciousness ultimately is derived from the brain, or if the universe is derived from consciousness, has been impossible for me to answer. This is what I changed my attention to.

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