Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Simple living, extreme early retirement, being wealthy, ...
M
Posts: 419
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:34 pm

Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by M »

Also you can replace 'God' here with anything really. The source of the universe, the source of your life, your neurons, or you can simply let go of things and view it as a sort of mental training.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 8230
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Anxiety and arousal are simultaneously very near things yet mutually exclusive. In any situation where your arms and legs aren't confined by plastic wrap, autonomy or agency allows for the possibility of converting anxiety into arousal through acquisition of control or competence. Absent autonomy or agency, the ability to internally relax oneself enough to release anxiety is often mediated through "trust", whether that trust is in God, the Universe, the Emperor, or just the other human who is dangling you over the deck. This is one reason why it is sometimes hard for those of us raised in affluent society that promotes "rugged individualism" to comprehend that some might actually find the social cohesion of a strict authoritarian hierarchy pleasurable.

M
Posts: 419
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:34 pm

Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by M »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 11:48 am
Anxiety and arousal are simultaneously very near things yet mutually exclusive. In any situation where your arms and legs aren't confined by plastic wrap, autonomy or agency allows for the possibility of converting anxiety into arousal through acquisition of control or competence. Absent autonomy or agency, the ability to internally relax oneself enough to release anxiety is often mediated through "trust", whether that trust is in God, the Universe, the Emperor, or just the other human who is dangling you over the deck. This is one reason why it is sometimes hard for those of us raised in affluent society that promotes "rugged individualism" to comprehend that some might actually find the social cohesion of a strict authoritarian hierarchy pleasurable.
I feel obligated to bring this conversation back to sex now.

Some women I have been with - including my wife - have been very into BDSM and are 'very' submissive. I never understood the appeal much until it was explained to me that by being completely submissive to a loving and trustworthy partner one can 'let go' and surrender themselves and this brings about a state of deep peace and relaxation, especially afterward.

I imagine this is, perhaps, the same process.

zbigi
Posts: 601
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:04 pm

Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by zbigi »

M wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:17 am
For example, are you afraid of getting fired? Why? Then you will have no money. Why are you scared of running out of money? Well then you might be homeless. Why are you scared of homelessness? Well you might freeze/starve to death then. So the fear of death is why you are scared of being fired.

You can trace back most fears to the fear of death.
I don't think that's right. When you ask most people about their fears related to old age, most of them are not afraid of death per se, but of being incapacitated or riddled with some horrible illness (at least that's the answers I've heard in Poland). So, people are mostly affraid of pain and of discomfort. Similarly, when people are afraid of losing their jobs, they aren't afraid of ending up dying on the streets, but of having to endure great discomfort of having to go through unemployment, job hunt, potentially having to work in some shitty job and having lower life standard. People are mostly really loss awerse and the vision of losing their current comfort level is distressing for them.

M
Posts: 419
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:34 pm

Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by M »

zbigi wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 12:54 pm
I don't think that's right. When you ask most people about their fears related to old age, most of them are not afraid of death per se, but of being incapacitated or riddled with some horrible illness (at least that's the answers I've heard in Poland). So, people are mostly affraid of pain and of discomfort. Similarly, when people are afraid of losing their jobs, they aren't afraid of ending up dying on the streets, but of having to endure great discomfort of having to go through unemployment, job hunt, potentially having to work in some shitty job and having lower life standard. People are mostly really loss awerse and the vision of losing their current comfort level is distressing for them.
Yes - this is why I used the 'most fears' keyword here. :lol:

Death is a form of loss of life. A loss of mobility or comfort are also forms of loss. In fact, a lot of people go through these losses of comfort and mobility and perhaps loss of some pleasures in life before death anyway, regardless of financial losses.

We can go through these sorts of contemplative exercises to help surrender the fear in both cases.

User avatar
Jean
Posts: 1657
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:49 am
Location: Switzterland

Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by Jean »

life is good, and fear very probably prevented my life from ending several times.
I love my fear, it allows me to try new things without dying.
One very noticeable symptom of depression is absence of fear.
This is true to the point that if i deem a fear irrational, i can recall of how it was to be depressed and get rid of the fear.
On the opposite, getting into new situations that spawned new fears was a great step out of depression.

I think ancient gods were personification of emotions.

chenda
Posts: 2601
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:17 pm
Location: Nether Wallop

Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by chenda »

People who have had Near Death Experiences (NDEs) usually report positive experiences of joy, meeting deceased love ones, a feeling of coming home, a warm loving presence of loving of bliss.

But a minority report hellish experiences, including that their whole life and loved ones were a illusion, that they are utterly alone in the universe, that nothing exists but them, deeply disturbing stuff.

Unfortunately there does not seem to be much correlation between good and bad experiences and good or bad people. Murderers and rapists in jail have reported positive NDEs.
Jean wrote:
Fri Oct 28, 2022 7:15 am
I think ancient gods were personification of emotions.
Jean if you are interested in Polytheism this academic might be of interest to you:

https://henadology.wordpress.com/

User avatar
Lemur
Posts: 1453
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:40 am
Location: USA

Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by Lemur »

If you don’t believe in free will, then you can be kinder to yourself. I find that even small bouts of mindful meditation to be useful. About 5 minutes worth. Perhaps even preferable. I think I chase long-term well-being even if it means I’ve to experience pain in the short run. I’ve come to appreciate that pain as part of the process.

AnalyticalEngine
Posts: 734
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:57 am

Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by AnalyticalEngine »

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/1 ... 0psychosis

Found an interesting paper on some case studies where meditation caused psychosis. The takeaways are:

1. Open awareness, guided, and group meditation is less risky than focused awareness or self-transcendence.
2. Keep to less than 1 hour a day.
3. Make sure you eat enough and get enough sleep. Mixing it with fasting or sleep deprivation can be dangerous.
4. Social isolation is a risk factor for adverse effects.
5. Pre-existing conditions are obviously a risk factor, so if you have those, stick with the safer forms of meditation first.

Now what I find interesting is that a lot of religious traditions (and even Plotkin) encourage you to push the limit by meditating for hours a day, mixing it with fasting, etc. Like Plotkin has you do a multiple day fast in the wilderness, etc, which is most certainly going to induce an altered state of consciousness.

LookingInward
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:51 am

Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by LookingInward »

Hello again. As always my perfectionism got in the way of replying to a thread I created myself lol.

Unfortunately the last week was quiet hard for me (illness) but I still managed to think about the original point of the thread. I've realize that, over the years, I molded myself to always try to finish my job as fast as possible in order to get to "real life". There is some merit to that idea, but for me it resulted in automatic thought patterns that cause anxiety, disappointment and lack of meaning. My objective is the exact opposite: I want to leave a life free of stress and anxiety about ridiculous things. For example I don't see it as a bad thing that I get anxious about doing something new but that I recognize can bring me a lot of value long-term. I don't want sound self-righteous but this is what I think a brave person would do and I want to be that person.

So, I feel stuck. I feel like I don't have the tools to think my way out of this. I go to a therapist from time to time and she has became sort of a mentor to myself. However I want to be more self-directed instead of always relying on 3rd parties to hold my hand (that's also something I want go get over).

By the way, it seems that YouTube knows me quite well as I was recommended a video about something called delayed life syndrome: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mRnxl_FlvCs&t=447s. I want to break this pattern but I think that it's probably more "productive" to look at what other people think about these topics, instead of trying to reinvent the wheel.

Based on my scattered thoughts, does someone has any recommendations where I can learn more about myself and how to "live a good life"?

Maybe it will seem like I'm trying to juggle 30 ideas at the same time. I see it as a symptom about my current state of confusion and quest to "find the truth", if there even is such a thing.

Thank you =)

ertyu
Posts: 2378
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by ertyu »

LookingInward wrote:
Sat Dec 03, 2022 5:59 am
Based on my scattered thoughts, does someone has any recommendations where I can learn more about myself and how to "live a good life"?
Oooh, a fellow navel-gazer! Let me give this one a try as the forum's resident couch potato.

You say you want to be a brave person. You say you can't think yourself out of this one.

Well, cool.

Do yourself out of it, then.

What do I mean by this?

You've already spent some time trying to think about things, watching youtube videos about helpful concepts, talking to a therapist, etc. All good and useful things. I think the next step is to try and crack this experientially.

How you can live a good life? Idk dude, one person can answer and that person is you - my good life and your good life will be different. So do some experimenting and try to find out what your good life is. Here's the steps:*

(*) this is an actual cognitive behavioral therapy exercise

1. Get yourself a journal or notebook that appeals to you and that looks like something you'll write in.
2. Sit down and brainstorm a bunch of activities you could be doing. These do not need to be the "right" activities. They just need to be activities: a hike? Take the bus to a neighborhood you've never been to and walk around? Find out where your local library is and visit? Look up an exercise video of something you like doing. Look up an exercise video of something you'd never even think of doing (e.g. a "girly" barre workout if you are a dude). Idk, these are the ones my brain is coming up with. Come up with some. They don't even need to be particularly fun or pleasant. They could be long or short. Brainstorm ... many. 50. 50 is a good number (it will be hard to make 50 you'll end up having to resort to ridiculous things -- wear two different color socks? -- this is the goal).
3. Choose how often you want to do this exercise given the rest of the schedule. 3x a week? Every other day?? Once a week? Once you decide, commit to it. A year has 52 weeks. Commit to doing the exercise.
4. Choose one activity from the list. You can use a random number generator, you can point with your eyes closed, or you can simply go down the list. Or up the list. Doesn't matter.
5. In your journal, write a thing that predicts what doing this activity will be like and how much you think you'll enjoy it on a scale of 1 to 10. You think it'll be lame and a complete waste of time and be complete cringe because [reasons] and you'll engoy it 1? Cool. Write that.
6. Now go do the activity.
7. After you've done it, sit with your journal. Journal about how the activity actually was. Good parts? Bad parts? Ways in which it wasn't how you thought it would be?
8. The following week, return to number 4. Repeat through 7 for a different activity.

A bunch of things will happen:

- you'll learn a bunch of stuff about yourself and your preconceptions.
- you'll have stuff to discuss with your therapist.
- you'll compare your predictions with how the actual experience was, and over time, you will learn where you tend to underestimate or overestimate experiences
- you'll have tried a bunch of stuff out of your comfort zone and you'll have been brave
- you will learn more about what aspects of what activities appeal to you and why. you will get better at designing activities that incorporate more of those aspects.
- you'll have done a bunch of stuff and you'll have thought a bunch of deep thoughts about it, and you'll be more interesting at parties
- bit by bit, you'll get unstuck

godspeed and good luck

ertyu
Posts: 2378
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by ertyu »

M wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 5:14 pm
Some of the best accounts that are similar which I read came from the David R. Hawkins books, which is where I learned the non-dual meditation practices.
what order would you recommend one reads them in? there seem to be quite a bunch

M
Posts: 419
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:34 pm

Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by M »

ertyu wrote:
Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:00 am
what order would you recommend one reads them in? there seem to be quite a bunch
hmmm....

This sort of depends on your goals. David Hawkins was a psychiatrist who turned to the spiritual path. There is a lot of very good information in the books, however, I would take the information you find useful and disregard the rest. It is all a mental framework to help someone transform their mind and subjective experience of life.

I read power vs force first, then Eye of the I, then I: Reality and Subjectivity. After I read this last book is when I started having a lot of strange spiritual experiences.

If you only buy one of his books I would recommend Letting Go: The pathway of surrender, for general happiness and acceptance and inner peace.

If your goal is enlightenment I would read Discovery of the Presence of God: Devotional Nonduality

After doing a lot of research in this area and having a lot of experiences I believe a person can change their subjective experience of life by changing how they think and through the practices mentioned in the books.

I can also say that the experience of enlightenment is a real thing that occurs at a certain point along the path, and one can accept this and move forward or reject it as I did and go back to your everyday life.

The larger question of if consciousness ultimately is derived from the brain, or if the universe is derived from consciousness, has been impossible for me to answer. This is what I changed my attention to.

Henry
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2022 1:32 pm

Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by Henry »

I think the name for it is torture. And in IMHO the realization leaves you with two workable options: die or die to self. I prefer Christianity because it goes beyond "your life is not about you" to "your life is not your own" rendering suicide impermissible and allowing you die into something heteronomous. Plus it doesn't try to avoid the suffering but utilizes it in a formative manner with a teleos to boot. I do not like stoicism, seems like hammering yourself like a nail until you can't be seen in your own wood. I tried hedonism but you need a shit ton of money otherwise Monday mornings are fucking downright unbearable and if you need to leave the house, exceedingly shameful.

Henry
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2022 1:32 pm

Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by Henry »

I think Anthony Bourdain was the personification of this conundrum. The guy got pinballed between the lure of seeking adventure and the lure of returning home and eventually he guttered himself. Although the public cuckolding might have played a role as well. But the point is the two walls of his dichotomous life eventually pancaked him.

Frita
Posts: 756
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:43 pm

Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by Frita »

This sounds like the “waking up” part of the “wake up, grow up, (show up)” process that Ken Wilbur, Ram Dass, Eckhart Tolle, etc. spoke/speak about.

Also, Robert Burney has some interesting (to me) ideas about codependency as a norm in current American culture. There is an overwhelming pressure to have our value defined outside of ourselves through stuff, status, others’ opinions, and so forth.

AnalyticalEngine
Posts: 734
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:57 am

Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by AnalyticalEngine »

M wrote:
Sat Dec 03, 2022 10:38 am
I can also say that the experience of enlightenment is a real thing that occurs at a certain point along the path, and one can accept this and move forward or reject it as I did and go back to your everyday life.
How is enlightenment defined on this path? What does moving toward it feel like?

M
Posts: 419
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:34 pm

Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by M »

AnalyticalEngine wrote:
Tue Dec 13, 2022 10:03 am
How is enlightenment defined on this path? What does moving toward it feel like?
It is a progressive slowing of thought activity, increasing inner peace and tranquility, and increasing contentment and lovingness in every moment of life. It is a transformation of the subjective contextual awareness of life, not simply a changing of the content of thoughts or doing endless analysis on thoughts.

It is a surrender of personal desires, fears, attractions, and aversions. It is about seeing things for what they are without personal meaning or judgments imposed on things or people.

It is about actively letting go ... of everything, including the attachment to yourself and the pleasure and pain of constant thinking and egotism.

It is not something that you gain, it is something that you lose. The perception of life changes as you remove your own super imposed meanings onto things and people. You become less reactive to everything.

A constant joy of every moment and bliss in everyday existence starts occurring on it's own. There is a distinct feeling and perception of divinity being everywhere. Time begins to appear to slow down and stop as you are overwhelmed with joy. These random glimpses of eternity is a sign that enlightenment is close.

You begin to sleep very deeply at night and struggle to remember who you are when you wake up in the morning. You begin to experience a random fear of dying at times as one of the mind's last illusions.

Eventually the mind goes increasingly silent in day to day life and you are confronted with the Void of eternal nothingness. If the Void is rejected then the Infinite Energy / Source of awareness and existence is revealed. The illusion of a personal self is let go of and one experiences one's own 'death'. The personal self cannot coexist in awareness as the same time of this 'Self'.

After this the subjective experience of life changes dramatically, as one goes into a state where the mind is always quiet and has to be actively turned on to work, sort of like how one would engage the clutch in a manual transmission. It is compared to a liquid going to a gas state once it reaches a certain temperature. Trying to impact liquid once you are a gas becomes harder to do.

It is impossible for me to know what any of this means or if these are pathological states the brain goes through as it is purposely shut down, or if some sort of higher 'spiritual' reality actually exists.

At a certain point along the path these sorts of questions no longer matter.

I am told some of these states can be replicated by drugs, so I imagine if this is a pathological state someday there will be an 'enlightenment' drug one takes to slow down mental activity and enter into a state of constant inner peace and joy.

daylen
Posts: 2301
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:17 am
Location: Lawrence, KS

Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by daylen »

Always, already here. Always has been.

chenda
Posts: 2601
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:17 pm
Location: Nether Wallop

Re: Is there a name for this phenomenon?

Post by chenda »

Has anyone here experienced God ? Like a genuine feeling of divine presence or love ?

I haven't, save for a slightly interesting experience in the desert which was probably brought on by the heat.

Post Reply