Emergent Movement Design and Alcoholics Anonymous

The "other" ERE. Societal aspects of the ERE philosophy. Emergent change-making, scale-effects,...
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guitarplayer
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Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:43 pm
Location: Scotland

Emergent Movement Design and Alcoholics Anonymous

Post by guitarplayer »

I just write here because I don't want to forget. ERE2 could learn something from AA. Alcoholism is a staple in psychology of addiction to psychoactive substances and I gather that AA has been shown to be a successful programme again and again. Given how the society is currently organized around getting its members dependent on what have you, the techniques AA has to deal with the addiction to alcoholism could be employed to addiction to broadly taken 'consumerism'.

ertyu
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Re: Emergent Movement Design and Alcoholics Anonymous

Post by ertyu »

I'm not sure we can accept as given that AA has been shown to be a successful programme again and again.

sky
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Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:20 am

Re: Emergent Movement Design and Alcoholics Anonymous

Post by sky »

How would one use AA techniques to promote use of clean diet and exercise to improve well being?

ertyu
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Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: Emergent Movement Design and Alcoholics Anonymous

Post by ertyu »

It seems to me that one of the things that keeps AA going strong is its affiliation with religion (yes, I am aware AA has attempted to distance the concept of higher power from that; no, I don't buy it).

Because of its affiliation with religion, AA is America's court mandated program of choice when it comes to dealing with alcohol addiction. One could administer drugs (naltrexone I believe? correct me if I'm wrong), but why do that when you could send people to get religion. Regardless of what some parts of the AA movement attempt to do when it comes to the link between religion and AA, it is there, and it is backed institutionally.

Where I'm getting with this is that AA is only popular and successful to the extent that it is court mandated; I guess the basic equivalent when it comes to finances is a court mandated frugality/budgeting support group program for people who are delinquent on debt or who have declared bankruptcy. Given that most personal bankruptcy in the US is due to health care bills, I would assume the pitchforks would come out quite fast if you tell people the healthcare system only impacts them this way because they don't budget hard enough.

The one link between ERE and AA I'd personally buy is, paradoxically, not well publicized: that Bill W's forays into "higher power" etc concepts, and indeed, his ability to quit drinking, came as a result of psychedelics use rather than religion. I can see how psychedelics would move one towards anticonsumerism as well.

ertyu
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Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: Emergent Movement Design and Alcoholics Anonymous

Post by ertyu »

sky wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:26 pm
How would one use AA techniques to promote use of clean diet and exercise to improve well being?
this already exists. there are AA-style groups focusing on binge eating / overeating / food addiction.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Emergent Movement Design and Alcoholics Anonymous

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I rarely consume alcohol, but I have accompanied a former SO to AA open night talks in order to get free coffee and cookies :lol: Obviously, innate genetic tendencies are likely involved, but it seems to me that many alcoholics seem to begin drinking during early adolescence in order to deal with difficulties with social interactions. Therefore, the sociability provided by the group, especially in breaking free from drinking buddies, may be just as important as the "higher power" aspect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1aO4pCvxN0*


I don't like the idea of posturing ERE as anti-consumerism-as-addiction. It seems too smug, like we're a group of girls with chastity pins attached to our bosoms. I mean, where's our SSA (spread sheeters anonymous) meeting going to be held?

* It also may be the case that "Fancy Like" by the same artist is simultaneously the least and most ERE like song depending on spiral dynamics level of irony assumed.
Ayy
My girl is bangin'
She's so low maintenance
Don't need no champagne poppin' entertainment
Take her to Wendy's
Can't keep her off me
She wanna dip me like them fries in her Frosty
But every now and then when I get paid
I gotta spoil my baby with an upgrade (ayy)
Ayy, ayy, ayy

Yeah, we fancy like Applebee's on a date night
Got that Bourbon Street steak with the Oreo shake
Get some whipped cream on the top too
Two straws, one check, girl, I got you
Bougie like Natty in the styrofoam
Squeak-squeakin' in the truck bed all the way homeSome Alabama-jamma, she my Dixieland delight (ayy)
That's how we do, how we do, fancy like, oh

Fancy like, oh
Fancy like, oh
Fancy like, oh

Uh, don't need no Tesla (don't need no Tesla) to impress her (to impress her)
My girl is happy rollin' on a Vespa (there she go)
Don't need no mansion (ooh) to get romancin' (woo)
She's super fine, double wide, slow dancin' (slow dancin')
But every now and then when I get paid
I gotta spoil my baby with an upgrade
Ayy, ayy, ayy

Yeah, we fancy like Applebee's on a date night (that's right)
Got that Bourbon Street steak with the Oreo shake (ayy)
Get some whipped cream on the top too (gotta add that whipped cream)
Two straws, one check, girl, I got you (girl, I got you)
Bougie like Natty in the styrofoam (styrofoam)
Squeak-squeakin' in the truck bed all the way home (all the way home)
Some Alabama-jamma, she my Dixieland delight (ayy)
That's how we do, how we do, fancy like

My new, clean blue jeans without the holes in 'em
Country kisses on my lips without the Skoal in 'em
Yeah, she probably gon' be keeping some Victoria's Secrets
Maybe a little Maybelline but she don't need it
In the kitchen light radio slows down
Boxed wine and her up-do goes down

Laura Ingalls
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Re: Emergent Movement Design and Alcoholics Anonymous

Post by Laura Ingalls »

@ertyu interesting info about Bill W. Very supportive of using psychedelics?

Not sure that court ordered treatment is that common in the United States. I think it is more often used as a show of good faith effort to show that the person with an addiction doesn’t deserve jail. I also generally think judges and drug courts want people to get better not push a religious agenda.

For the family member I have with AUD pretrial monitoring work better than anything else. I wish his case could be pending forever instead of either conviction or acquittal. The threat of jail is more powerful than anything else.

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