Would you give your kids money for college or life?

[white belt]

I don't agree that this 'kneecap's one social capital at all! I think this might be true if social capital were a difficult thing for the individual to develop and the college network was strong. I think social capital can be very independent of any formal education setting. I've moved several times and this last location is where my social capital is the most developed. For example, last week I stopped by to visit with a farmer friend, helped her harvest some basil and walked away with a lot of veggies. I didn't go in expecting any veggies, just wanted to say hi. I shared the huge bag of basil with my upstairs neighbor and now two families have yummy pesto in their freezer. No mentions were made of anyone's college.......and yet social capital still functioned

Perhaps I'm speaking too much from anecdote. However, I have moved an average of once every 12-18 months for the past 7 years. I attended a public university and almost my entire social group was/is people from the local area, who decided to stay in that same local area after graduating. I don't think you can compare social capital of a person who's family has lived 2-3 generations in one area with that of someone who travels around every few years for work, although certainly one can develop social capital if they put effort in. I also don't think friendly neighbors or coworkers function on the same level as friends that you have spent thousands or tens of thousands of hours with.

However, I also understand not everyone makes a strong group of friends in college, although I think one should strive for that. College is way too expensive if all you're getting out of it is knowledge that can be gained from a few textbooks you get from the library.

The more extroverted one is, the easier it is to link into social networks in a new area. So an extroverted teenager may not need the social network associated with college as much as say an introvert would. My point is, from a systems perspective, you are introducing a lot of friction by moving around frequently. That's not to say you can't create a system that thrives in that situation, it's just to say it will require more effort than if you stay in one area. I understand it is the norm to chase job offers across the country, not everyone likes where they grew up, personal situations vary, etc etc.

[mooretrees]

i don't disagree with the main point you make, that stability increases your ability to make strong social connections. Absolutely agree with that perspective. As a strong extrovert, social capital is sorta my jam. However, it was a long time in coming after the last move. I don't have the interest in doing another move again, despite my concerns about setting up my son to live in a wildfire prone area. Since I'm on the fence about paying for college, I'm somewhat daydreaming of providing him with access to land/resources that might be harder to come by in the future. I've seen it happen that kids return to small towns/rural areas after escaping to the big city because the family land provides options that are attractive at some point.

[prudentelo]

People who benefit most from the networking, usually have the least need to pay.

In many respects college is "lifestyle consumption good" or "selling the dream."

Like other investments, 'FOMO' can dominate human reason

Also like other [non-fraud] investments, return usually highest for the first in

[Sclass]

I made a lot of friends in college and grad school.

To put it bluntly they’re of little use to me. I think I can help them. But they cannot help me much. Whatever they can offer I can usually buy and that way it doesn’t come with strings.

[zbigi]

The point of friends isn't to get stuff or services out of them for free. I mean, sure, it's a nice extra benefit sometimes, but friends are for meaningful connections which enrich both of you and make you both better people.

[jacob]

I read https://www.amazon.com/dp/0674248244/ a while ago. From an non-US perspective, where class /= money, I found myself nodding along to some of the experiences.

There are four things to be acquired in college in order for it to work optimally. Education, degree, social capital, and cultural capital.

Education in that you learn something useful. (You can do that with a library card and 50 cents in late fees.)

A degree in that you have a piece of paper you can wave around. Prestige does matter. It's not just the degree. Some schools offer awards and internships. Others don't.

Social capital in that people tend to hire their friends (known factors) and that many fields are actually quite small which means "former classmates". Some do that more deliberately than others. E.g. alumni associations, "secret" clubs, ...

Cultural capital, where I refer to the link above. "Access is not the same as inclusion" because inclusion presumes certain behaviors and values that are learned elsewhere... often with the mother's milk so to speak. If you come from a "labor culture", like I do, where all that matters is "being a hard worker", then networking or developing friendships [of utility] with professors would simply never occur to you. A school that offered that would be wasted opportunity.

Optimally, one needs to be firing on all the cylinders that are available.

[Sclass]

Right, I didn’t mean I make friends to get something from them or vise versa. We were discussing how I could benefit by being connected to a bunch of people I went to college with.

There is this idea that your friend in your graduating class at university of XYZ can help put in a good word for you at a job interview or possibly serve as a reference to help you close a sale. Ideally you get an appointment on the presidential cabinet.

And that’s the rub. I have university educated (not my alma mater) friends who are just the people I like to hang around for fun. I didn’t have to go to college to meet them. In fact, those people didn’t have the pathways to make it through the same university system as I did. The ones who did are kind of crappy people as friends. I guess in the college dorm I got to bond with some teenagers that I currently am linked with on LinkedIn. But it kind of ended there.

Maybe I just went to some nasty hyper competitive schools filled with jerks. The ones who did eventually become connected and successful are such awful people I’d rather not associate with them. The more personable ones are kind of needy when they call up. It’s like there were two types. (Actually the problem may be me not them).

Maybe if I were the kind of person who lives by coming a calling on my old pals for a leg up I would be into this kind of thing. It just seems that the alumni world around my classmates breaks into these two different categories. There are the sharks and the pilot fish who hover around them. The sharks are…well sharks. The pilot fish are always trying to see if I’m a shark who can provide something of value in my wake.

I ended up choosing my connections from a larger group by just meeting a lot of people after university. Going to an institution like Stanford to make your friends feels ridiculous like going to Stanford to get educated.

You can take it a step further out and ask if your attending high school connected you to anyone of significance.

It’s like restricting yourself to romantic partners you meet on Tinder. It’s a way but it isn’t the only way. For me it wasn’t the best way.

Bottom line after that long ramble is people are paying a lot of money for this perceived outcome. Before it happens.

[sodatrain]

Related to the cost of College and the perils of student loans/debt, the Dave Ramesy film Borrowed Future is excellent. I'm asking my oldest (Sr in HS) to watch it before he makes any decisions. It's available at least on Amazon Prime https://www.ramseysolutions.com/shows/b ... cumentary

[ZAFCorrection]

One thing that might significantly increase the volatility of the value proposition of going to college is the demographic cliff (millennials not having kids during the great recession) superimposed on already declining college enrollment. Second and third tier universities will be hard-pressed to maintain their income and will unexpectedly have to shift strategies, such West Virginia University cutting many programs. I assume other universities might also be forced to lower or at least reduce the increase in tuition to maintain enrollment.

Personally, I think cultural access is the number one reason to go to college. For the average person, getting taken seriously in the professional world means having the paper and knowing the secret handshake, both of which are received at college if you graduate and spend enough time interacting with your professors. I don't think a professional career is the only way to go, but in any case interaction with professionals is always going to be necessary.

I would try to convince my kid to speed run at least a four year degree, if not a master's, at a state university, with the understanding that the important bit is literally knowing how to keep your professors happy.

Edited to remove incorrect information. Thanks, mathiverse.

[mathiverse]

Good point regarding the demographic cliff.

Though I want to add that financial aid *does* look at parental assets and student assets along with income.

[suomalainen]

I don't think a professional career is the only way to go, but in any case interaction with professionals is always going to be necessary.

What I've told my kids is that it's retarded to go to Harvard to get a degree in medieval history. WTF. I understand the idea of social / cultural capital, but it only matters ... if it matters to you. I will not deny that the name on my law degree has followed me for years and has kept doors open for me. At the same time, once that first door opened, it was up to me. So while networks have been important in getting me all 3 of my post law-firm jobs, it's not like it really went back to my law school. It was more that the name opened the first door, and the remaining doors opened because people I worked with recommended me to (or were) hiring managers.

As for friends, yeah, I don't have any friends from college or law school. I have one friend from high school that I keep in touch with. The rest I've made along the way at work and hobbies.

So, maybe for a STEM degree it makes sense to go into debt to go to a fancy school if you want to go to a "fancy" company. Otherwise, go to a local school and/or a trade school or other. I think it all boils down to personal values, and everyone's values are different. My kids are so different from each other as to make anyone question how they could possibly be related. Only one of them is genetically capable of taking advantage of everything an "elite" school has to offer (due to raw intellectual capability, but also due to the value placed on elitism). The other two ... just don't give a shit, even though they are also smart enough to do whatever they want to do.

As to what I'll do for my kids. Yeah, I'm giving each $30k in a 529, but I've recently been pondering the idea of giving them $100k in a "life fund" if I continue working (not for the money, but just 'cause I want to spend some portion of my day working). On the one hand, it seems like it could give them (especially the artists and dreamers) a buffer against starvation, but on the other hand, isn't it a little bit like cutting their balls off? I'm undecided.

[DutchGirl]

If I had kids, I would want to help them create their own happy life. That would cost my time and energy to help them understand how the world works (and how they themselves function), and it would also cost money to help them develop and create opportunities.

I myself am experiencing the value of a good degree in how I am wanted on the job market and can easily demand good compensation and move to a new job if the old one starts turning sour. So with kids I would definitely support them getting a good education, even if it costs money.

I would say it's natural as parents to want to support your children. They will probably get more energy and money from you than a random different kid down the street, and I would applaud it if parents chose to spend money on their kid's well-being and development over spending it on luxuries for themselves. I think it's extremely selfish if people here were like "Sorry kiddo('s), I created you, but mama's gotta ERE so no hobbies or sports for you and at age 18 you are out of the cardboard box we live in with just the clothes on your back!".

Now I purposely don't have kids, so that is great for my time and energy and wallet. (And given that I don't have kids, through charities and volunteer work I actually AM giving more of my time and energy to other people's kids than to my own non-existing ones). If you're the type who would kick their kid out at 18 and consider it "job done", perhaps consider also just not having kids. It'll probably be a better choice for you, for that potential kid, and for society as a whole. And otherwise I'm hoping you'll have a change of heart during the time that you're actually raising your kid(s) and you will support them for longer if they need it.

[Lemur]

No, I would not give me kid money for life or full tuition. We will help fund some college and/or a trade school ($10k in the 529 and growing) while encouraging not to take on huge debt but we won't fund everything. We believe it is important that our kid has some skin in the game to take their education / trade school seriously if they want to pursue that. What we will do is allow our home base to always be a place where a child can come back to if living on their own is not working out or hard times come about. No rent required but they definitely need to fund their own hobbies and chip in on utilities/food and such. A strong launching pad if you will and a bonfire that can always be returned too. I think most well adjusted kids are going to work hard to make a life for themselves and leave the nest if they want to. But who knows. My kid is only 7 years old. Seems well. But I could end up eating my own words if things change and he's like 30 still with us lol...This is not a problem in other cultures though outside the U.S.

I got the "18 and get out" treatment. Needless to say, my relationship with my parents has never been strong. But it did make me super independent and I feel like I adulted a lot quicker than my peers in my age bracket...