I'd be interested if anyone has opinions on locations in the US where there is no real winter lol.
Well, if cost of living is your primary concern then most forumites would have near-zero heating and cooling costs in coastal SoCal. We just went through the heatwave where it reached the 90s and were just fine using only a fan. When that is factored in it reduces the high housing costs considerably. If much of your food is fruits and veggies, our proximity to the central valley ensures low cost produce year-round if you know where to shop. Cycling is a comfortable year-round transportation option. If you are so inclined there are significant waste streams to mine. For the past three years more than 100% of our expenses have been covered by in-person craigslist and offerup sales of items that were essentially other people's junk. I know we are outliers in this respect but @davetheram12 proves that we are not alone. Taxes are high but if you are retired and don't spend much, they are not bad. Healthcare can be hacked by proximity to Mexico and by other means. Entertainment is also hackable because the wealth funds lots of free stuff. For instance, this evening we have two free concerts within walking distance for el grito de independencia.
We have not had any blackouts. The wildfires are typically inland and the coastal breezes push the smoke inland rather than toward us. Currently about 10% of our water is supplied from desalination and a significant amount is reclaimed thanks to new toilet-to-tap treatment plants.
@take2, that is very kind. Thank you. If you ever have the good fortune to meet @theanimal(s) in person you will quickly realize as I did that they are redefining what is possibly frugality-wise while continuing to have incredibly adventurous lives.
Not much. My concern with the southwest and why it's not on my shortlist is water or the lack thereof. The area (CA, NV, NM, AZ) is in a mega-drought and relying on importing water from the Colorado river or mining from aquifers when they can't. In the mid-run (midcentury) the Central Valley will be over as a going concern. This is more concerning for farmers. It's possible to build a vibrant city in the desert with money and desalination plants as Middle Eastern oil states demonstrate.
Yet, this really demonstrates the importance of looking at time horizons. For example, the game changes if one only has 20 years left to live or doesn't own a home which value would be imputed when everybody wise up and head for the exits. Ditto on establishing roots or not.
@jacob, our fairly well functional county government seems to be working with the understanding that imported Colorado river water will end. Germ phobia killed the first iteration of toilet-to-tap in Los Angeles but it never went away here.
Is water more expensive in California compared to other states or is the price fixed everywhere?
The price depends on your location even within a given state. For example, the article Ego posted stated that "San Diego County's water is among the most expensive in the country, costing about 26% more at the wholesale level in 2021 than the Metropolitan Water District's, which serves Los Angeles and surrounding counties."
Now I'm curious. Is water the same price everywhere in the UK?
I am pretty happy where I live now and plan to stay here, but still I often dream about moving to other places. There are conflicts between my lifestyle dreams and my housing selection criteria. I dream of a remote tiny house off-grid homestead on the edge of a forest somewhere, but still value being able to walk to a grocery store and hardware store. These desires often work against each other and make it difficult to find a satisfactory location for a home.
I can sort of satisfy the dream by continuing to live where I live, heat with wood, add solar to my home, plant lots of berry bushes and garden plots in my yard and do the small town homestead thing, which is probably the direction I will go. However it would be nice to be in a more remote area without the constant noise of construction, lawn care, powerwashing, loud vehicles, noisy weekenders, late night drunk yelling, etc. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to escape the sounds of civilization, even when camping in remote areas.
When we were travelling, I saw hundreds of locations that I thought might be a nice place to live, so I don't think there is a need to narrow it down to one geographic area. Maybe some areas are better from a future climate perspective. For me the bigger issue as someone in retirement mode is, how can I best satisfy the various lifestyle desires and selection criteria goals for a place to live out the rest of my life.
Well, if cost of living is your primary concern then most forumites would have near-zero heating and cooling costs in coastal SoCal. We just went through the heatwave where it reached the 90s and were just fine using only a fan. When that is factored in it reduces the high housing costs considerably. If much of your food is fruits and veggies, our proximity to the central valley ensures low cost produce year-round if you know where to shop. Cycling is a comfortable year-round transportation option. If you are so inclined there are significant waste streams to mine. For the past three years more than 100% of our expenses have been covered by in-person craigslist and offerup sales of items that were essentially other people's junk. I know we are outliers in this respect but @davetheram12 proves that we are not alone. Taxes are high but if you are retired and don't spend much, they are not bad. Healthcare can be hacked by proximity to Mexico and by other means. Entertainment is also hackable because the wealth funds lots of free stuff. For instance, this evening we have two free concerts within walking distance for el grito de independencia.
We have not had any blackouts. The wildfires are typically inland and the coastal breezes push the smoke inland rather than toward us. Currently about 10% of our water is supplied from desalination and a significant amount is reclaimed thanks to new toilet-to-tap treatment plants.
What other expenses am I missing?
I can further confirm this in urban NorCal. I would move to a town where I could get an apartment for about $1100 a month. Somewhere in Sonoma county, maybe? You can move to towns where there are no real jobs, and get a small apartment... You won't be able to buy here since the homes tend to be for people who are the traditional definition of early retired -- rich, big, and ostentatious. Your bills will be less than $50 a month (if you choose to use no heating, I can guarantee an apartment with electric-only everything costs far less than $30 a month), the weather is always good for cycling, and you may still be eligible for rent control. Food is not the cheapest in California, but I lived in New York for a year and was astounded at how much more I spent.
That rent does not get you in the 1 JAFI zone, but you could split a 2-br, house hack, or do a work-rent agreement with a landlord. Because this is a tourist destination, I believe there's high opportunity for part-time work to cover the housing costs.
This is definitely what I would do if I was looking for a quiet, luxurious life to retire to. Whenever I'd need urban life back, it's a hop skip and a jump to San Francisco.
@recal I saw a documentary about I think Humbolt county in California, which by all accounts is a lawless place full of drug growing, people trafficking, organised crime and all sorts of dodgy stuff. Apparently it was once a nice bucolic place full of hippies who engaged in some low level hash growing up in the mountains and never bothered anyone. Then the war on drugs started and the families were predictably displaced by violent criminals. But it looks scenic and cheap with plenty of water so maybe it'll get gentrified?
I always assumed ideal ERE locations would largely overlap with areas that’ll withstand climate change best, assuming your time horizon is long.
Upper Midwest perhaps? Detroit and Buffalo areas seem affordable still. Always surprises me they still see net population declines though— so maybe something I’m missing there. Or as others have said, Chicago. Alternatively, lots of space in Maine if you want something more rural.
@bostonimproper -- Detroit and Buffalo have suffered well-deserved reputation damage but those cities IMO are actually much better than they used to be, and a lot of the reasons that were valid to avoid those cities aren't valid anymore. So right now is kind of a great opportunity to take advantage of low-priced real estate in those cities while their reputation is still down (if that's what you want).
My approach is slightly different, but I must have some gipsy ancestor as I love to move every now and then.
With DW we decided to pick a SHTF place close to family/friends, as small as possible and in an area that should be slightly less impacted by climate change*.
That is our "backup plan". We know it works because we've been living here since early March when we escaped HK**.
But with the ERE focus on simple living, flexibility and resilience, I would ask: why would someone have to pick a place thinking of what will happen 30 years from now?
Unless someone has ties to a place (family/friends/etc) I would imagine ERE people to be the ultimate opportunists with regards to "where".
So for example, why pick somewhere cold right now just because Southern Cal will be dead in 2070?
*doesn't need air conditioning in the summer, has a big lake nearby and is 700ft above sea level
**we are 3, and it's a 550-600sqf apartment
@seppia -- It's true that people who are in a fantastic financial situation such as ERE folks will be the people who have the most options, and so they don't have to worry about something in 20 years since they will be able to move and adapt faster.
For me personally, I want to find a place that I can grow into. A place where I can create/find a community of friends and allies. I'm not sure if that's something that a lot of ERE people focus on but I think it fits in with the rest of the ethos. If I keep moving around every few years (like I have been doing) then it becomes pretty difficult to create and keep those social ties. So for me, I want to pick a place where I feel I could be comfortable still living there 30 years from now.
But with the ERE focus on simple living, flexibility and resilience, I would ask: why would someone have to pick a place thinking of what will happen 30 years from now?
Unless someone has ties to a place (family/friends/etc) I would imagine ERE people to be the ultimate opportunists with regards to "where".
So for example, why pick somewhere cold right now just because Southern Cal will be dead in 2070?
Again, this comes down to how it is easier not to resist long term trends than opportunistically trying to jump in and out or wait until the last minute. This kind of risk works like bankruptcy: first gradually, then all at once. Much of this has to do with how information translates into knowledge. Right now all the information is there, but---case in point---it has not translated into knowledge and action. To wit, if enough people think they'll be able to move out just before everybody else, it serves to increase systemic risk. It's analogous to FOMO where people stay in because they figure they're smart enough to get out before everybody else. Naturally, only a few people will turn out to be correct about that.
Hence, the reason is to avoid the rush. Because optionality tends to change suddenly.
The second aspect is cultural. Entering a new space comes in four different waves. Pioneers and explorers. Settlers. Guests. And ultimately refugees. That latter are rarely welcomed and guests are usually expected to leave again. In many areas, acceptance depends a lot on how deep one's roots in the area is. As the "pressure" goes up, the people who are accepted in the margin goes down.
I think ERE people are better equipped than most at anticipating trouble.
Similarly to how almost everyone here was prepared for covid in Feb 2020 while most of the world was oblivious to the potential threat.
It took my wife, a son and myself one week from decision to actually leaving HK, for example.
Simple living and not owning a lot of stuff has many advantages.
We have no problem being massive statistical outliers, we are pretty deep in ERE as a philosophy / strategic approach to life design, but somehow we wouldn’t be able to smell trouble and leave a good place turning bad before “the masses”?
I don’t know.
On the second aspect, it’s why I think it’s al super important to have a place “to go back to”, where “one belongs”.
That must be part of the strategy in case SHTF and the entire world becomes a refugee place
In short, I like to have an optimistic approach to life because I think in 99.9% of possible future outcomes, life is going to be ok.
Plus, I like to have a small chip on a “survival plan” for the 0.1%.
I own some physical gold, but it’s like 2% of my Nw
Just in case
I am pretty happy where I live now and plan to stay here, but still I often dream about moving to other places. There are conflicts between my lifestyle dreams and my housing selection criteria. I dream of a remote tiny house off-grid homestead on the edge of a forest somewhere, but still value being able to walk to a grocery store and hardware store. These desires often work against each other and make it difficult to find a satisfactory location for a home.
I can sort of satisfy the dream by continuing to live where I live, heat with wood, add solar to my home, plant lots of berry bushes and garden plots in my yard and do the small town homestead thing, which is probably the direction I will go. However it would be nice to be in a more remote area without the constant noise of construction, lawn care, powerwashing, loud vehicles, noisy weekenders, late night drunk yelling, etc. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to escape the sounds of civilization, even when camping in remote areas.
When we were travelling, I saw hundreds of locations that I thought might be a nice place to live, so I don't think there is a need to narrow it down to one geographic area. Maybe some areas are better from a future climate perspective. For me the bigger issue as someone in retirement mode is, how can I best satisfy the various lifestyle desires and selection criteria goals for a place to live out the rest of my life.
What's the purpose of making posts like this if you're not telling us where you live?
That's the #1 thing people want to know.
