mathiverse's journal

Where are you and where are you going?
Scott 2
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Re: mathiverse's journal

Post by Scott 2 »

Do you ever batch cook food for the week? When I was working, I found it essential to reduce eating out. Having food prepared made the path of least resistance either eating at home or bringing my meal with.


I also wonder - is there a way to tie a more frugal way of eating to your identity or other goals? Making spend your goal quickly hits a point of diminishing returns. It is prone to regression, when other life stressors raise.

On the other hand - say you are vegan. Removing animal products immediately rules out most restaurants and some of the most expensive foods. When times get hard, regressing would require a fundamental shift in your identity, so it's very unlikely to happen.

Not to say that's the right identity for you. Maybe you're a paleo or keto person. But shifting the behavior from "I will" to "I am" might make it stick.

Alternatively - say you decide to hack your biology to maximize longevity. One of the trades you might decide upon is removal of sugar and processed oils from your diet. Since you can't control what is provided at a restaurant, eating at home becomes more practical. Since processed foods are loaded with lifespan reducing ingredients, prepping your own food becomes necessary, to remain congruent with your goal. Money might be saved as a side effect. But, the physical benefits may be felt more immediately and become self-reinforcing.

Again - not to say that is what you should do, but that there may be another way to think about the problem.

Same chain of thought with an athletic pursuit. Climbing. Biking. Crossfit. Yoga. A long physical trip. Etc.

mathiverse
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Re: mathiverse's journal

Post by mathiverse »

@Scott 2: I have had some luck in the past trying to go the identity route in the short term. For a while, I thought I had figured it out and had solved my eating out problems 90%+ of the time. I think I even said as much in this journal or maybe in a mastermind group meeting. The route I took was athletic pursuit, general health consciousness, and a paleo diet. Unfortunately, it seems that was as short lived and prone to regression in hard times as the spending goal. I don't know how to make a desired identity change stick. Making a real decision that "now I'm X" doesn't really make my behavior follow without a lot of daily and conscious effort to make it so. Is there some advice you have on that?

As for changing my diet drastically to enforce not cooking out, this hasn't worked in the long term for me either. Changing my diet sounds about as hard as changing my eating out patterns. I'd rather stick to one problem at a time.

I'll think about your advice more though. My prior failures along those lines don't mean it couldn't work with a few tweaks. However, for now my plan remains what I mentioned. Step 1: Buying as much food as I want as long as it's from a grocery store, Step 2: gradually make better grocery purchases, Step 3: Profit?

mathiverse
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Re: mathiverse's journal

Post by mathiverse »

I've batch cooked before, but mainly by making extra servings at dinner rather than making enough for a week or something like that. The problem with more planned batch cooking is that it requires me to follow a schedule and be fairly organized. I'm bad at both of those. I prefer solutions where the cooking is very easy with very few steps, there is very little ahead of time prepping, and I don't need to do it at a certain time or prepare for the future. Maybe once my cooking improves I can branch out.

So common go tos lately: cheese, oatmeal, meat I can cook on the stove and eat out of the pot, boiled eggs, and scrambled eggs.

Scott 2
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Re: mathiverse's journal

Post by Scott 2 »

When identity or goal based changes have stuck for me, it's because I socialized the new thing. I share my failures and (implicitly) my need for support. Some examples:

I realized I am prone to dopamine chasing. I told all my friends and family about the concept. I got some of them to read the same book. I talked about sugar as a drug with them. I extended it to other behaviors. I laughed with them at my failed attempts to change. Talked about what worked and didn't. I raised the topic here. Etc. Now, when I decide to make dinner a pint of ice cream, everyone knows what is happening.

When I became a student of yoga, I went to classes with my Mom. And my wife. I told all my coworkers stories about sucking at it. I got them to try it. I did a period of 30 yoga classes in 30 days. I read dozens of books. Workshops. I belonged to multiple yoga studios. Any work travel, I tried a new yoga studio. I brought my yoga mat with me on a trip to Universal, so I could do yoga every day. This meant taking it as a carry on and practicing while waiting for the plane. My wife became a yoga teacher. I assisted with some of her workshops and classes. There was no escaping the shift.

To some extent, I force the identity into my self-reinforcing web of goals. Eventually, people assume that's my thing. Acting otherwise becomes the hard path. What's weird about that working, is I'm generally not a people person. But having the point of focus helps me to connect. Part of what I think is critical, is taking this beyond online. There's something about face to face with people IRL that hits different, at least for me.

The MMG is an interesting hybrid of IRL and online.


Looking through your journal, I see eating out related tactics going back to 2019. It's something I also fight with.

Several times I've made a public choice to break from eating out, framing it as temporary. I'd commit to trying one new food per store trip, one new meal per week. I'd try to get others IRL doing the same. I'd ask if they'd tried anything new, cooked anything new. We'd talk about success and failures. Depending on their skill level, I'd ask for ideas to try. When I found something good, I'd shared it with others. I'd trade off making dinner with friends / family.

What honestly tipped me over though, was the pandemic. With no other options, I learned to cook better in 2020. My standard was raised substantially. Once I tried eating out again in 2021, I found the staffing problems greatly impacted both quality and consistency of product. Lines were longer. Stores had weird and unexpected hours. Sometimes I'd go expecting a certain food, and they'd be totally out of it. The experience stopped being fun, so saying no was easy.

theanimal
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Re: mathiverse's journal

Post by theanimal »

It seems like from your posts that the main driver in eating out is convenience. If that's the case, it seems to me that your best bet would be making eating at home as easy as possible. This doesn't necessarily mean batched meals, but in that vein, you could pick a day each week where you pre chop a bunch of veggies and fruit to store in the fridge. The same can be done with meats, which can be diced up or marinated in advance then tossed in the fridge or freezer depending on your time frame. You are not committed to using them for any one specific meal and can add as desired to whatever dish you prepare.

Generally though, you will probably be best served by learning a few dishes that you can make very well in a few minutes. Once you like that, branch out and keep adding recipes. It seems you are already experimenting with this on a small scale with eggs, oatmeal and the like. If you can set up your environment to the point where eating at home is more convenient than going out to eat I think you'll see some progress. Best of luck.

mathiverse
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Re: mathiverse's journal

Post by mathiverse »

Update for April 2022

Spending

Code: Select all

Food - Groceries	$811.21
Food - Eating out	$288.60
Job Search		$200.00
Tax Filing		$198.68
Renter's Insurance	$102.12
Internet		$69.99
Books			$58.04
Cell phone		$30.93
Household supplies	$9.99
---
Total $1,769.56
I wanted to spend $750 for the month. I ended up at $1,769.56. Better than last month!

Groceries and Eating Out

My strategy for this month was to spend whatever on groceries as long as I don't eat out. This worked most of the month, then, last week, I ate out four times including once with my SO. Prior to that, I had only eaten out once (before deciding to trade off with my grocery spending). What happened last week? Well, one time I ate out with my SO was to celebrate their birthday and spend time with them, so I got some decent value out of that. Though I probably spent more than necessary that day. For the others, I don't know, exactly. I felt stressed due to some frustrating interactions related to returning to work and so I ate out. Once I ate out once, I ate out a few more times before reining myself back in.

So I will call the 'buy a lot of groceries instead of eating out' strategy mostly unsuccessful. It didn't work when push came to shove. However, I had some success since I spent less on food this month than the last. I will go back to a strategy that worked a bit better since my situation again matches the conditions where that strategy worked out in the past. See my goals for May for an explanation.

Job Search

I paid for a mock interview to get some insight into where I was going wrong with some interviews. It was a helpful thing to do. It also influenced my decision to stop interviewing and return to my old company, so I think this was money well spent.

I could have avoided this if I had spent a bit more time looking in my network for folks who could give me a mock interview.

Tax Filing

Every year for the last four or five years, I plan to do my taxes by hand instead of using TurboTax, then I use TurboTax at the very last minute. So it was, this year. Maybe next year!

Renter's Insurance

My apartment requires renter's insurance, so I have liability coverage. I haven't comparison shopped, but this is the cost for the full year, so it's not a major factor in my expenses at this time.

Internet and Cell Phone

Same as always.

Books

I bought one book which I want to keep as a reference. I bought another book which was unavailable from the library, I judged as unlikely to be available via an interlibrary loan, and that I also wanted to read urgently. And I bought an audiobook to practice another language I'm learning.

I'm okay with these purchases. Maybe I wouldn't buy the audiobook again because afterward I remembered that I don't really like audiobooks. However, the cost was low enough, that it's not a major loss.

Household Supplies

I have a $10/month subscription to an app for doing GTD. I am noticeably more organized with the app and I lose track of tasks less often as a result, so I will keep this expense. I've tried doing this with a paper-based system and with the non-paid version of the app, but both are frustrating enough experiences that I drop using them after a short while. I'll keep this going for now.

mathiverse
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Re: mathiverse's journal

Post by mathiverse »

Goals for May
  • No buy until the end of the month
    • Excepting: Purchases for trip home the first week of June, bills, food within budget
  • Food budget: $200 on groceries and eating out
Looking back, February worked great and I had several things going for me that month which resulted in a great success.
  • No buy period
  • Extra food from the prior months
  • Budget for food I was aiming at
  • Budget overall
  • Lots of time to think and act in order to keep my food budget down
  • Low stress
  • High motivation
I will have all of these things going for me in May, so I want to try again to keep my food budget at a lower level. I will be unemployed for at least another month and I've largely stopped interviewing, so I have no major commitments this month besides these goals.

I'm hoping to create these habits to make this happen and also to increase the sustainability of this budget.

Habits
  • Same lunch each day: Coffee, cheese, eggs, and vegetables
  • Make dinner with leftovers three days: Alternating beans and lentil soup
Job Search Update

I'm going back to my old job. The team I want to join won't have a position open until next month, therefore I will wait until then to start working. I didn't get the company to increase their offer at all, so, ultimately, I'm accepting one of the lowest offers I received!

But the role I'm taking has good WLB, pays enough, has good colleagues, and allows me to expand some expertise that I want to double down on. I can go for better money in a couple years if I really want or need to. At that time I'll have more options that allow me to use and build more of my desired expertise.

Several discussions and the encouragement from other members in the FI Mastermind group has influenced this decision quite a bit, so shout out to those folks!

dustBowl
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Re: mathiverse's journal

Post by dustBowl »

Hey mathiverse, have you started your new job yet?

I don't know if you remember commenting on my intro post, but we took sabbaticals around the same time last year. And I also ended up deciding to go back to my old company, for many of the reasons you described in your last post. So our paths apparently continue to run in parallel.

I would be interested to hear about your experience returning to the workforce. Based on all previous indicators, I'm sure it will mirror my own :D

mathiverse
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Re: mathiverse's journal

Post by mathiverse »

jacob wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:52 pm
In physics, the happiest people went to grad school but didn't pursue the career. More interesting work wasn't guaranteed. (Physics is not a growing field.) Instead grad school changed how people approached their work if not their life paradigm. A useful grad school experience changes one's mindset from being someone who good at answering given questions in a textbook/box to someone who is good at coming up with [informed] questions as well.

Maybe think about it from that perspective?
Thank you for the comment. I'd totally like to gain that sort of ability/experience/perspective change. Is that something that comes from doing a PhD? Are there other things that have to be true about the PhD program for this to be true (eg advisor who gives you a lot of freedom vs one who gives you a lot of direction)?

mathiverse
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Re: mathiverse's journal

Post by mathiverse »

dustBowl wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 3:25 pm
Hey mathiverse, have you started your new job yet?
...
Yes, I did. I started last week. Unfortunately, despite my best efforts, I landed on a team that isn't a great fit, so the work is not interesting. I'm optimistic I'll be able to switch teams within a few weeks, however, the process requires many tough conversations due to letting down the managers who hired me. If I can't find a team with a better fit, then I will have to figure out a new plan. That may mean adjusting my expectations to fit the job (eg I'm there to get the money and do what the boss says) or it may mean I leave sooner than I thought I would.

mathiverse
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Re: mathiverse's journal

Post by mathiverse »

re: new job

I switched to a team that is a perfect fit. That was easier than I expected. I'm happy.

jacob
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Re: mathiverse's journal

Post by jacob »

mathiverse wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:35 pm
Thank you for the comment. I'd totally like to gain that sort of ability/experience/perspective change. Is that something that comes from doing a PhD? Are there other things that have to be true about the PhD program for this to be true (eg advisor who gives you a lot of freedom vs one who gives you a lot of direction)?
I commented on this previously in other threads. I see two different kinds of phds.

One is the "glorified technician" where the advisor just sees the "student", who is technically someone with a masters degree already, as a source of ultracheap labor for their own projects. Avoid at all costs! It's a waste of time in return for an ironic diploma.

The other sees the student as a future researcher. However, supervisors have different ways of developing this. Mine was very hands-off (sink or swim on the technical) while connecting me with lots of people, something that I'm personally bad at, on the networking side. This was a perfect match. Others have a different approach.

I think the right match is more important than the subject. Previous experience in industry should make finding this match less naive than someone (like me) who never left school. It may be hard to get people to reveal who they are and what they're looking for.

Tip of the trade: Pick an associate professor. They're still young enough to have foot in research but old and settled enough to be connected and avoid being desperate. Second best is a full professor. They mostly do admin and don't have much time for research. Avoid untenured professors. Wiser departments don't even allow untenured professors to have grad students. Too much potential for abuse to increase their own publication counts. Also look for postdocs in the research group. The more the better. These will be your go-to for actual technical questions, since they're the ones doing the actual research. OTOH, this might just be my personal preferences talking.

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mountainFrugal
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Re: mathiverse's journal

Post by mountainFrugal »

I think @jacob's advice is sound based on my experience in academia. +1 for the associate prof with a bunch of postdocs... this also means the lab is well funded. When inquiring with profs before applying to specific programs, see how their PhD students are funded. Grants and fellowships are an order of magnitude better than having to be a teaching assistant if research is your main goal. Another thing to consider is where do PhD students and postdocs land after leaving the lab? What are the placement rates for something you might be interested in doing after. How many PhD students get fellowships for postdocs after? What is their first author publication rate? How long are the postdocs sticking around? This will also be an indicator on how well the lab as a unit does in moving researchers through the pipeline (for better or worse).

mathiverse
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Re: mathiverse's journal

Post by mathiverse »

Update for May 2022

Spending

Code: Select all

Food - Eating out	$848.87
Travel			$377.20
Household supplies	$127.89
Miscellaneous		$111.97
Food - Groceries	$91.31
Books			$79.70
Internet		$69.99
Cell phone		$30.93
---
Total $1,737.86
I wanted to spend $750 for the month. I ended up at $1,737.86. Again slightly better than last month!

Groceries and Eating Out

Yeah, I know. I will fix this eventually. I haven't figured it out yet.

My new current strategy after reading Atomic Habits and Scott Adam's biography is to build system where I at least don't eat out for breakfast and lunch. Once I don't eat out for those, then I can figure things out to not eat out for dinner.

I really don't know how to figure this one out. If it's my number one top priority then I can have a month like February, but otherwise my habits are to order out if I want to order out. Hm. According to my food log, I was eating a lot of junk (candy and pastries), beef, eggs, vegetables, and cheese back then.

Jacob wrote a post about people who are extreme and the 2s eat for taste and the 3s eat for function. I wonder how I can become a 3?

Internet and Cell Phone

Same as always.

Books

I bought two books I want to keep as references. I bought one because I was too impatient to wait for the library. I bought another one because it wasn't available at the library. I also spent some money at the library book sale.

Household Supplies

Mostly the cost of a software license. I also bought some allergy medicine and a month subscription for the GTD related app.

Travel

Flew home for a visit.

WFJ
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Re: mathiverse's journal

Post by WFJ »

mathiverse wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:35 pm
Thank you for the comment. I'd totally like to gain that sort of ability/experience/perspective change. Is that something that comes from doing a PhD? Are there other things that have to be true about the PhD program for this to be true (eg advisor who gives you a lot of freedom vs one who gives you a lot of direction)?
A professor friend once told me a PhD is like a marriage, you don't know what you've committed to until after it begins (PhD programs last about as long as the average marriage in the US). Most PhD programs offer student the opportunity to get out of a program what they put into it. A PhD program can be similar to David by Michelangelo where a large perfect slab of marble is first required (individuals own abilities) and must be meticulously manipulated by a skilled artist (PhD director). The interaction between the ability of the individual and the greater investment by PhD director will determine success or failure. Every University, every college and every subject area have different policies and procedures for a PhD that change overtime that I would hesitate to generalize much.

dustBowl
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Re: mathiverse's journal

Post by dustBowl »

mathiverse wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:50 pm
Yes, I did. I started last week. Unfortunately, despite my best efforts, I landed on a team that isn't a great fit, so the work is not interesting. I'm optimistic I'll be able to switch teams within a few weeks, however, the process requires many tough conversations due to letting down the managers who hired me...
mathiverse wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:04 am
I switched to a team that is a perfect fit. That was easier than I expected. I'm happy.
Nice job having the tough conversation and putting yourself in a better position. I'm not very good at those talks. Glad you were able to turn it around so quickly!

RE the eating out, have you looked at any of the meal delivery boxes like Blue Apron / Hello Fresh / etc? They're significantly more expensive than normal cooking, but also significantly cheaper than eating out. And they have the nice side effect of teaching you a bunch of recipes, so once you find some you like, you can just cancel the service and cook them yourself for cheap.

For me, they provided a nice bridge from eating out a bunch to cooking more a few years back.

How helpful they would be for you will probably depend on which specific bits of the food prep process you like or dislike. In my case, I didn't mind the actual act of cooking, but I hated all of the planning and grocery shopping that went into it. So they were a good fit for me. I didn't have to think at all; the ingredients just showed up and I followed the associated instructions. And then once I had internalized the recipes I enjoyed, I canceled my subscription, and voila.

Might be worth checking out.

mathiverse
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Re: mathiverse's journal

Post by mathiverse »

zbigi wrote:
Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:38 am
I see [the conventional salaryman work environment] more as a bad ex - it could be fun to get back together for a short while, but soon all the reasons for why you're not together anymore will again become blindingly obvious. It was always like that to me when I've gotten back to a job after a 6-18 months break. Maybe it's different if the break is 10 years long :), but I suspect the difference would be only in length of the honeymoon period.
I saw this quote and I totally agree. I've been back at work for 2.5 months and I'm already wondering when I can leave again. I don't know if I should be working on an attitude adjustment or an exit plan. For now, I'm trying both.

ertyu
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Re: mathiverse's journal

Post by ertyu »

In my experience, if you make a solid exit plan, the attitude follows. If you're secure enough to take off, you'll naturally be less invested in the day-to-day bullshit. At least that's how it is for me. About eating out, I hear you, Im much the same when I work full time.

mathiverse
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Re: mathiverse's journal

Post by mathiverse »

I signed up for Boost Mobile today. I paid $103.95 for a 12 month plan to replace my current $30.92/month plan.

I also gave notice at my job at the end of last week. My last day is during the first week of November.

Finally, I got a tutoring gig at the local college that starts in a few weeks that will cover rent and maybe $300 on top of that each month. That will help with the transition to a non-salaried lifestyle. Not as great as DLJ's 4 hour work week, but it'll do for now. :)
Last edited by mathiverse on Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Ego
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Re: mathiverse's journal

Post by Ego »

Nice! Congratulations!

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