Optimizing sex

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prudentelo
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Optimizing sex

Post by prudentelo »

Does anyone optimize it the way of othe ramateur (assume no professional on the board?) proficiencies?

I am talking quality not quantity/number of partners

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Jean
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Re: Optimizing sex

Post by Jean »

I don't find any google result for ramateur.
But working on the ability to communicate with your partner (or futur partner), by any means that works for you, is key to good sex.
Sometimes communication is instictively good, sometimes it takes learning.
I assume that if you learn the most widespread way that your prefered type of partner use to communicate, it can also help for quantity.

mathiverse
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Re: Optimizing sex

Post by mathiverse »

Jean wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:13 pm
I don't find any google result for ramateur.
prudentelo wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:37 am
Does anyone optimize it the way of othe ramateur (assume no professional on the board?) proficiencies?
"othe ramateur" is a typo. It should be "other amateur."

M
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Re: Optimizing sex

Post by M »

I have optimized this by finding someone in high school who was (still is) incredibly sexually attractive and who wanted sex constantly at all places and times.

We had sex in the woods, in the school, behind the school, up against the school, in the dugouts, in the baseball field, in the woods next to the church, behind the church, inside the church, at her dad's house, in her dad's bed while he was away, in her Uncle's bed, in her mom's bed, in her mom's bathroom, in her bed, in my bed, in my car, in her dad's truck, at every park in the area and in the alley behind her dad's house. I don't even remember everywhere we had sex. We would sneak off to have sex whenever we saw each other. We moved in together as teenagers and this was like a fantasy come true at the time - a super model to have sex with constantly. We had sex after work, before bed, in the middle of the night, and whenever we were getting ready to leave anywhere. After nearly twenty years we went from 4 times a day down to once a day on average. Some days we don't even have sex at all now. Eventually the desire fades.

This has resulted in four children though. Be careful what you optimize.

prudentelo
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Re: Optimizing sex

Post by prudentelo »

that sounds very wholesome

dont you have a book or a technique or paradigm for constant sexual improvement? that is what we are about here

M
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Re: Optimizing sex

Post by M »

@prudentelo

In my experience, good sex is less about a certain special technique or physical act, but more about who you are with. That is my point. Find someone who is easy to fall in love with, who enjoys cuddling, kissing, being close physically and emotionally, and who enjoys sex, and good sex will follow naturally, just like water flows downstream. My wife and I have been together nearly twenty years now and have loved each other deeply the whole time, both physically and emotionally. Good sex follows because we both communicate well and have a strong desire for each other. There is not some magic technique that will lead to amazing sex for everyone, but rather a deep connection and desire for someone that will then lead to amazing sex.

Or course, this is just my .02 cents. Take from it however you would like. :)

dustBowl
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Re: Optimizing sex

Post by dustBowl »

prudentelo wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:16 am
dont you have a book or a technique or paradigm for constant sexual improvement? that is what we are about here
If you're looking for a book on this topic, I would recommend Passionate Marriage by David Schnarch. The author is a marriage therapist and the book is based on his experiences helping couples improve their relationships holistically, but also their sex lives specifically. Despite the book working within the framework of long-term monogamous contact, I think the content would be applicable to just about any kind of adult human sexual relationship.

Like the ERE book, it's heavier on principles than specifics. I consider this a positive. The goal is to get into the right mindset, with the idea being that once you do that, concrete actions will naturally follow. There are some techniques the author recommends for increasing a sense of intimacy and desire with your partner, but the focus is mostly big picture - how you relate to yourself, how you relate to your partner, how those factors (and others) affect your sense of sexual connection.

Maybe I'm making it sound too dry. At the end of the day, it's a book about how to have great sex, which is a fun topic. And the author grounds everything he talks about in concrete examples of couples that he's worked with, which keeps things from feeling too abstract.

M's advice to just find a compatible partner with a high sex drive is also good. If you can do that, it's a nice little shortcut that will obviate the need for most of this theoretical stuff. But my impression is that for a lot of people, it's not so clear cut. What if you want to stay with your current partner but you have a nagging feeling that things could be better? Or you just want to improve your level of functioning? There's a whole lot of territory that someone might find themselves in between "I have mind-melting sex with my partner 24/7/365" and "We never have sex, it's a full on dead bedroom deal, I have to find someone else". That middle area is where resources like the book above can be helpful.

theanimal
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Re: Optimizing sex

Post by theanimal »

She Comes First by Ian Kerner is very good, thorough and worth reading. The author also has a book called He Comes Next, which I have not read.

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Seppia
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Re: Optimizing sex

Post by Seppia »

The best way to optimize for sex is not to overthink it and let your feelings take the lead, the moment you start to force anything is the moment you screw it up.
It’s a beautiful act that communicates passion, love and another million things: when you start obsessing about your stats on the scoreboard you’ve lost.
The beauty is in the game.

Jin+Guice
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Re: Optimizing sex

Post by Jin+Guice »

In order to optimize you would need to define what quality means and what sex is.

I'm assuming the OP is talking about some sort of vanilla, penetrative, heterosexual sex involving only one other person?


There are some good books about sex and relationships, but none I've read are very technically specific, which sounds like what you're after? I read some super thicc book in HS that had some basic techniques. Otherwise She Comes First has the most techniques of any book I've read, Passionate Marriage and Mating In Captivity are the best books I've read about how to keep being stoked on fucking the same person for a long time.

It's not a very book heavy subject though. The first 1/3 of She Comes First is this dude trying to convince you that maybe you could actually enjoy eating a pussy. Only 1/3 of the book is technique. I got like a few tricks, but I've learned more techniques from just asking one person what they liked one time.

In some ways I think everything you do should be with the goal of being more attractive and fuckable, which will make sex better, even if it's just like a small 5th order effect.

The other thing that I haven't seen anyone mention yet is that it's important to pay attention to the other person a lot. Like figure out what they like and pay attention to what they are saying and not saying and their body language and breathing etc... and also ask a lot of questions.

Everything everyone else has said is also pretty spot on.

chenda
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Re: Optimizing sex

Post by chenda »

Jin+Guice wrote:
Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:30 pm
The first 1/3 of She Comes First is this dude trying to convince you that maybe you could actually enjoy eating a pussy.
Men need convincing ? :shock:

@prudentelo - You could practice periods of intermittent celibacy. Less is more as it were.

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Seppia
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Re: Optimizing sex

Post by Seppia »

Jin+Guice wrote:
Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:30 pm
The other thing that I haven't seen anyone mention yet is that it's important to pay attention to the other person a lot.
I am maybe an incurable optimist with way too much faith in humanity, but I would hope that when someone wants to get better at anything that involves other people, he/she would find it obvious to also pay attention to these other people?

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jennypenny
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Re: Optimizing sex

Post by jennypenny »

There's a niggling in the back of my mind that this thread is related to the one on gaming/living online. If a person spends most of their time online and up in their own head, how can they become familiar with the sensations that stimulate their bodies (in sexual and non-sexual ways)? The best sex I've had wasn't just about what happened during sex but what happened that day leading up to the sex. The more I'm out experiencing the physical world ... whether getting my hands dirty in the yard, cooking, swimming, running, playing games, etc ... and the more sensations I feel all day (smell, taste, touch, exertion, laughter, heat, wind, cold, rain, etc) ... the more heightened my senses are before I ever get to the sex.

Sorry if this isn't the thread for these comments. I just worry that needing/wanting instruction on [what I consider] 'natural' acts indicates we might be losing something by not spending enough time in the real world. The intellectual parts of our brain might like it better, but maybe the rest of us is suffering and the cost is too great. As @Seppia pointed out, some of this should be self-evident, but I sense that he spends most of his time in the real world too and might feel as I do.

note: This isn't a criticism of anyone, just an observation that there might be bigger costs to an online life than we realize. Maybe it's just the nature of this forum where we tend to dissect everything into its discrete parts instead of working on the 'whole'.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Optimizing sex

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@jennypenny:

I agree with you, but I have learned that this is a “feminine” perspective on sexuality. The paradigm of “optimization” in general is obviously very “masculine.”

Schnarch’s brilliant classic “Passionate Marriage” is based in the world of the modern egalitarian relationship and achieving differentiation as an individual in full ownership or authorship of sexuality, but there are books such as Deida’s “The Way of the Superior Man” which also explore practices most likely to maximize strong dichotomy.

Anyways, spending time in nature is a best practice towards restoring strong relaxed, receptive, sensual feminine energy. But two individuals who are in the moment “blissed out on the beach” (as I have been all this week-lol) won’t generate enough polarity for the hawtest sex. One partner needs to inhabit more directed energy in the moment (with infinite flips, transcendence, and subtlety also applying.) And maximizing directed energy is achieved through different practices such as “winning.”

In Lou Piaget’s “How to Be a Great Lover” she offers a number of exercises for helping men who are locked in directed (narrow vision to genitals) functioning broaden their sensual experience of sexuality. Marijuana can also help with this. Alcohol is generally the opposite of helpful which is why “drunk frat boy” is the most common sort of bad sex .

suomalainen
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Re: Optimizing sex

Post by suomalainen »

+1 to finding a compatible partner
+1 to having and nurturing a deep emotional, mental, physical and sexual connection to that partner
+1 to being differentiated from that connected, compatible partner

In some sense, if you have to force it, it ain't the right partner. If you're with a partner and for whatever reason you won't entertain the idea of trying to find a more compatible partner, then you can do some of the things mentioned above to try to improve the relationship generally, and improve the sexual relationship specifically. I envy @M for finding the right partner right off the bat - very lucky. For the rest of us, it will take a few (or many) tries.

ETA: Great sex is a happenstance, a side effect, of a great relationship. If you're aiming at great sex, you'll never get there.

prudentelo
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Re: Optimizing sex

Post by prudentelo »

@jin+guice "In some ways I think everything you do should be with the goal of being more attractive and fuckable, which will make sex better, even if it's just like a small 5th order effect."

I think it's wise. My experience is sex is good when we're both very excited to be having sex with each other, actual skill of me or her not mattering that much.

This thread is not because my sex life sucks or I suck at sex. Point is to ask if anyone applied the typical ERE "build skill up the numbers levels" technique to this part of life. Apparently it's an exception where it doesn't work (?)

M
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Re: Optimizing sex

Post by M »

prudentelo wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:22 am
This thread is not because my sex life sucks or I suck at sex. Point is to ask if anyone applied the typical ERE "build skill up the numbers levels" technique to this part of life. Apparently it's an exception where it doesn't work (?)
No one here said your sex life sucks or that you suck at sex. Everyone here has been trying to give you pointers on how to 'optimize' (improve?) your sex life. Honestly you sound a little defensive - no one here is trying to attack you. Relax. We're all trying to support you and anyone reading this in this endeavor.

When you ask if someone applied the ERE build skills up the numbers level, I immediately think of someone smoking a cigarette holding a clipboard in bed after sex asking their partner "so baby, what Wheaton level would you rate that sexual encounter?" Hopefully this is not the goal? ... Right? ...Right?

My whole point of my posts is that - you can optimize sex, but you can't use the ere framework to do so. Sex and love are emotional, intimate, psychological things that are literally wired together in the brain. Ere is a simplistic way of viewing finance that is in the analytical part of the mind.

If you need further proof, try talking to your partner about Wheaton levels and safe withdrawal rates while undressing them and see if they get sexually aroused. Then tell them you are going to judge their sexual skills in bed based on a scale of 7 Wheaton levels that you read about on the internet. I'm guessing it will be the worst sex ever, unless you two have some REALLY strange sexual turn ons. In which case, more power to you.

There are a lot of things that go into good sex. This varies if you are a man or woman, and between individuals sometimes, and even your age and health status.

It is a difficult thing to optimize intellectually and analytically because, fundamentally, it is hard to arrive at good sex using those parts of your brain. In fact, it's better to turn off those parts of your brain and engage your emotional lizard brain instead.

Spend a lot of time with your partner in a very loving way throughout the day. Hold each other randomly, kiss each other, say sweet things to each other when no one is around. Sex doesn't start in the bedroom. Sex starts when you first see a person and ends when you orgasm inside of them (or with them inside of you). The difference between good sex and bad sex is what happens between these times and how you FEEL about each other and the relationship. Your ENTIRE relationship is foreplay.

Be playful with each other, be spontaneous, check each other out throughout the day. Notice the things about the other person that made you fall in love with them to begin with. Everyone has certain sexual things that turn them on.

Develop an atmosphere of trust and relaxation with each other. Be open, be honest, ask them what they like in the bedroom. You will learn more about your partner, from your partner, than any book you will read. Pay attention to your partner. Notice her or him. Talk to them. Turn off your thinking brain and turn on your feeling brain. Ask them what feels good, what they want.

Jin+Guice
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Re: Optimizing sex

Post by Jin+Guice »

@jp: Great comment.'
7Wannabe5 wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:43 pm
I agree with you, but I have learned that this is a “feminine” perspective on sexuality.
Lol, this is 100% what I thought while reading @jp's comment. For all the masculine leaning people on here it's worth it to try to know this perspective and that most feminine people hold it. It's also worth it to try to inhabit it, as you'll find that it's true for you too if you pay attention.
suomalainen wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:52 pm
ETA: Great sex is a happenstance, a side effect, of a great relationship. If you're aiming at great sex, you'll never get there.
prudentelo wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:22 am
Point is to ask if anyone applied the typical ERE "build skill up the numbers levels" technique to this part of life. Apparently it's an exception where it doesn't work (?)

I disagree with these statements. For most people, I think finding a long-term relationship with a compatible person is likely to yield the most high quality sex over the span of your lifetime. I agree that there are levels of intimacy that you can have with a long-term partner that aren't achievable with anyone else. But intimacy and desire are not the same thing. It is possible to find a sort of intimacy with people you don't know. Sexual compatibility and long-term relationship compatibility are also not the same thing. There are also people who really don't want to have intimate connected relationship for various reasons and those relationships don't yield the best sex.

I still think there is wisdom in what @suo is saying. If you are struggling to have good sex and are looking for that in non-intimately connected relationships, it's a good idea to re-examine your beliefs around desire, intimacy and sex. I think this is a common state, particularly in more masculine people.

@prudentelo, I think there are skills that can be optimized for, but they are difficult to explain or teach. It's like me trying to tell you how to have a conversation with someone or explain how ice cream tastes. I can sort of do it, but it's such an non-intellectual and interactive experience that it's hard to really say anything meaningful. While I do think that being a better gardener makes me slightly better at sex, and I try to bring that skill set into the bedroom somehow, there are sex specific skills that can be improved.

One of my main attractions to BDSM is it is a sex skill that involves a lot of technical aspects. BDSM manuals are also a good place to read about some of the more difficult to write about non-technical skills, but it's sort of hard to sift through them if you aren't also interested in hard point evaluation or the never ending search for the perfect sub.

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Re: Optimizing sex

Post by jacob »

You could use a Kegan framework to see where you're at. And where your partner is at. At each stage, there would be something to "optimize" or at least consider.

Kegan2: Is needs, desires, and interests, i.e., turn-ons and being horny. Has feelings and perceptions, i.e. knows what feels good/bad, etc. Primarily transactional, i.e. I do you, [so] you do me. Stereotype: teenagers.

Kegan3: Has feelings and needs, i.e. aware of turn-ons. Is their relationship, so potentially confused between who really wants what. Basically a pleaser, possibly misdirected (Abilene paradox). Many unspoken assumptions. Stereotype: married couples.

Kegan4: Has their relationship(s), i.e. personal responsibility for their own feelings, needs, and desires. Has clarity about own desires and tries to find the ideal partner to match personal desires. Is their [own] identity, e.g. masculine, feminine, LGBTQ+, top, bottom, etc. with ideas of who one is/should behave accordingly. Sees partner as someone with their separate identity. Stereotype: experienced players.

Kegan5: Has their identity/ies including those of their partner. Is the [physical and mental] union between the two. The two essentially become one. Sex is only the means to a higher end.

In terms of "optimizing" the greatest resonance appears between similar Kegan levels. Kegan5 would possibly prefer tantric sex whereas Kegan2 would simply prefer a partner with a hot body while Kegan3 would think of England; even Kegan4 might find Kegan5's goal too boring compared to any number of personal fantasies. Conversely, Kegan5 might find the individual physical and emotional pursuit to be too shallow compared to seeking full-spectrum intimacy. As such "good sex" also depends on where you're at and what you're looking for.

prudentelo
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Re: Optimizing sex

Post by prudentelo »

there we go :)

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