The Listening Society

The "other" ERE. Societal aspects of the ERE philosophy. Emergent change-making, scale-effects,...
jacob
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Re: The Listening Society

Post by jacob »

jacob wrote:
Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:01 pm
...and a simplistic moral code that doesn't meet all humans needs (hence all the depression, nihilism, etc.)...
Stahlmann wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 5:31 pm
Care to paraphrase?
... humans require recognition in a number of different ways, but modern (and postmodern) society only recognize people in a limited number of ways like "specialized job", "eat at restaurant", "buy experiences and stuff", "join club", and "create account and post on the internet", which consequentially has limited meaning; especially in how recognition is commodified---people are turned into workers, customers, and clients. The job doesn't care who does it. The restaurant doesn't care who it serves. The therapist doesn't care who they treat. This detachment easily leads to the belief that since only some of the things appear to matter, maybe none of the things matter. And this can lead lead to depression (of the anomic variety).

guitarplayer
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Re: The Listening Society

Post by guitarplayer »

@Stahlmann, also check out this interview with James Ellis posted elsewhere on the forum. Worthwhile listening to, even at 1x speed as a leisure activity. There is a pertinent bit he says
We've got to a state where human meaning and human life is so meaningless that you can be like "you know what, I am just gonna lay down, and nothing will happen to me.
When I first listened to it, it reminded me of a documentary about welfare state in the Nordic countries I once watched. Everyone is cared for, but in some perverse sense it's like nobody in particular is being addressed. This perhaps also in relation to your recent pondering of moving up north for the welfare.

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jennypenny
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Re: The Listening Society

Post by jennypenny »

I don't know how you guys got through this book.

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Re: The Listening Society

Post by jacob »

jennypenny wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 8:04 am
I don't know how you guys got through this book.
I struggled a bit with the first half.

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Re: The Listening Society

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I found it immediately engaging, but that may have been due in part to being amused by his "playing with the reader" approach.

I don't mean to delve into politics, but I noticed an article in NYT this morning suggesting that candidates who don't stick to the party line are becoming more appealing to voters. I thought the manner of "not sticking to party lines" described kind of hinted at meta-modern perspective.

" The basic theory of Fetterman's candidacy is that personality and authenticiy matter at least as much as policy positions...has supported Bernie Sanders and taken progressive positions on Medicare, marijuana, criminal justice reform, and L.G.B.T. rights...he is also 6-foot-8, bearded and tattooed, and he doesn't like to wear suits...he declined to move into the governor's mansion...talks about having been around guns for most of his life...his opposition to a fracking ban."

My point being that the fact that he is a Democrat doesn't matter, because the meta-modern perspective moves well beyond that dichotomy, and works from a higher perspective where the options for putting together the tinker toys become more open. Or, maybe, like the Pennsylvania voters, I am of the mindset that humans that seem to be "all of a piece" are rather boring and somewhat suspect.

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Lemur
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Re: The Listening Society

Post by Lemur »

guitarplayer wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 9:26 am
@Stahlmann, also check out this interview with James Ellis posted elsewhere on the forum. Worthwhile listening to, even at 1x speed as a leisure activity. There is a pertinent bit he says



When I first listened to it, it reminded me of a documentary about welfare state in the Nordic countries I once watched. Everyone is cared for, but in some perverse sense it's like nobody in particular is being addressed. This perhaps also in relation to your recent pondering of moving up north for the welfare.
Thanks for sharing this - was an interesting listen.

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Re: The Listening Society

Post by oldbeyond »

Regarding the nordics, least in Sweden, I’d say that politics today mainly revolve around managing Green/postmodern excesses, be it concerning immigration/integration, multiculturalism, energy, rule of law, defense, education or administrative efficiency. There are other issues of course but to a considerable extent, the public discourse revolves around issues such as these, where Green perspectives became increasingly hegemonic during the 90s, peaking around 2010-2015, replacing the older modernist/Orange ones of traditional social democracy. Around 2010 the populist Sweden Democrats (starting out Red, now rather Blue) came along, opening these cans of worms before the public eye. The response, after an initial period of doubling down on Green, has included quite a bit of regression to Orange and Blue, but as it becomes obvious that they can’t overcome the issues created by Green, I feel that more and more Yellow is entering the discourse. You can’t deny the frayed social fabric in our ”Vulnerable urban areas” for example (which Green did), but reducing welfare payments (Orange) or being tough on crime (Blue) won’t in themselves be enough. There is less dogmatic “either/or” thinking and more “yes, and” thinking making the lines between different parties (especially the three major ones) increasingly blurry. Remnant of a culture war lingers, but recent crises (gang violence, covid, NATO ascension, energy crises) have demonstrated a considerable amount of cohesion, where a consensus rapidly formed, with other voices becoming quite marginal.

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Re: The Listening Society

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@oldbeyond:

It's interesting that you see it playing out as movement towards a "natural" attraction point beyond Green.

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