Vasectomy? Child-free life?

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chenda
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by chenda »

@white belt - I think that's true, in a number of different ways.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Pornography influenced sexual styles and preferences well before the internet. However, there has been research indicating that excessive masturbation in forward facing position may inhibit ability to ejaculate in other positions such as standard missionary. Since most heterosexual females are unlikely to read such research, this minor dysfunction may simply result in garnering a reputation for being lazy in bed.

chenda
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by chenda »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 1:19 pm
Since most heterosexual females are unlikely to read such research, this minor dysfunction may simply result in garnering a reputation for being lazy in bed.
Now you mention it I've known several men who struggled to ejaculate in standard missionary. Struggled in the sense they ultimately didn't, and it was all a bit awkward.

It would be interesting to read an academic history of pornography though. When pompei was first discovered the Victorians professed themselves to be shocked by all the explicit imagery of frescos depicting orgies and dick pics and the like (fun fact: women were forbidden from viewing the adult section of the Pompei museum until the 1980s)

Though full colour reproductions of said imagery were bestsellers in Victorian times, and lots of young aristocratic men often had they portraits painted holding very large double barrel shot guns, so perhaps they weren't quite as prudish as we might think.

BeyondtheWrap
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by BeyondtheWrap »

I got a vasectomy at the age of 31 while unmarried.

I had read up on all the risks of complications and ultimately accepted them. I decided that I could live with chronic pain if it happened because it still wouldn’t be as bad as the emotional pain of having a child I didn’t want.

EdithKeeler
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by EdithKeeler »

However, there has been research indicating that excessive masturbation in forward facing position may inhibit ability to ejaculate in other positions such as standard missionary.
This. Explains. So. Much.

Thank you!!

white belt
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by white belt »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 1:19 pm
However, there has been research indicating that excessive masturbation in forward facing position may inhibit ability to ejaculate in other positions such as standard missionary.
I’m not familiar with this research and my Google skills didn’t turn up anything. Do you have a link? I’ve heard of women becoming desensitized due to excessive vibrator use and thus unable to climax from sex, so I guess it isn’t surprising there is a male equivalent.

Since men are visually wired and standard missionary impedes most viewing angles, I wouldn’t be surprised if that also plays a role. Then again I’m not even sure if people from older generations have sex with the lights on, so maybe this is just a younger person thing.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@white belt:

Couldn’t reference original article, but found this:

https://www.auajournals.org/doi/abs/10 ... 0000892.09
Then again I’m not even sure if people from older generations have sex with the lights on, so maybe this is just a younger person thing.
Old people only have sex with the lights on, because by the time it is getting dark outside we are too sleepy.

TopHatFox
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by TopHatFox »

BeyondtheWrap wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 6:24 pm
I got a vasectomy at the age of 31 while unmarried.

I had read up on all the risks of complications and ultimately accepted them. I decided that I could live with chronic pain if it happened because it still wouldn’t be as bad as the emotional pain of having a child I didn’t want.
So how'd it go? I got mine a year or two ago and it's been great. Lots of worry-free sexy times and no pain or anything like that.

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Seppia
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by Seppia »

I find this thread disturbing and depressing on so many levels I don’t know where to start :lol:
I thought that because of my general pessimism and distrust in average humans + my passion for extreme heavy metal music I would qualify among the top 666% most nihilist / anti human on the forum but my god was I mistaken!

Please someone tell me they also think having kid(s) is great.
To me ultimately leaving a legacy is the one thing that matters most.

I need a hug.

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Ego
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by Ego »

Seppia wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:28 pm
To me ultimately leaving a legacy is the one thing that matters most.
What are you trying to accomplish with a legacy? What are the underlying reasons for the desire to leave a legacy?

guitarplayer
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by guitarplayer »

I have been thinking about this recently not so much in terms of leaving a legacy as in the context of other threads where aiming for a moonshot is talked about.

So having kids, if done intentionally, might be just having another go at making a difference. I think being dedicated especially in the first few years (like, until 7yo of the kid), and in favourable circumstances (being ERE, having aptitude for this sort of stuff), might just be such an opportunity. Odds are stacked against one (genetic, systemic environmental, random events), but if the point is to keep on playing then yes.

@Seppia I look forward to reading here in a decade how you will have demanded your kid sleeps at the balcony because of his new tatoo :D

Humanofearth
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by Humanofearth »

Seppia wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:28 pm
I need a hug.
Insert hug.

I think it's a miracle I'll also one day partake in.

@Ego
From a Western perspective: I believe it's our genetics using as like robots to propagate themselves. There's a biological advantage to creating copies of our self that are better than us and outshine us. To creating something that will live on beyond us and does more than we were capable of.

Family also can care for us in a way that no other has the motivation to. They love more deeply than is possible with a nurse that lacks the same connection, at least outside the West.

From an Asian perspective: When I first started talking to my gf, she was living in the hospital caring for her father. Many health problems. She visited me a few days and went right back to care for him. She came back later and I realized I trusted her and loved her and that her father was her top priority. I visited and slept on the floor in a room with 5 people. We went back and fourth but eventually, we moved to her village, built a home there where her family still lives, and we stayed a few months to care for him.

We all put something in. Sisters cooking/cleaning, I'd often carry him or get him some food from the market or spend hours trying to listen to him and it brought him joy even with the language barrier to see I cared, son would go to live in hospital and sleep in his car in the parking lot. The nurses didn't care much, nothing like the family unit. So there's the connectedness and deep love of a family, brothers and sisters all caring for each other is beautiful, it's the most beautiful thing I've experienced even in the painful situation that it happened. He's passed and we were all there with love for him and to hear his final wishes. He had his final peace because at the time he was sick, his children were going to move apart but they now had a home to live in together and close, he saw how everyone was could comfortably live and care for each other in his absence by the end of those few months, his legacy was in place.

You don't see any beauty in creating life, or a family that we grow with and eventually outgrows us throughout life?

Hristo Botev
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by Hristo Botev »

Seppia wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:28 pm
I’d been purposely avoiding clicking on this thread since it resurfaced cuz I knew it would be the sort of discussion that would (a) set me off and (b) cause me to ask myself wtf I’m even doing on this forum, as I often do recently. But, I can’t sleep (stress about my kids’ futures, naturally), and so here I am. And what do you know, the first thing I see is your post, @seppia, which made me laugh and put a smile on my face. I also don’t know where to even start with all the things that are just absolutely disturbing and wrong about this discussion.
Seppia wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:28 pm
Please someone tell me they also think having kid(s) is great.
I also think having kids is great.

Then again, I’m Catholic, and our sacramental/vocational life directs us to either serve God by becoming a religious (Holy orders), or becoming married (holy matrimony, the primary purpose of which is having kids).

Part of me thinks, great, maybe narcissism and nihilism are in part genetic traits and you folks opting to remove yourselves from the gene pool means future generations will be less nihilistic and narcissistic! But, that is just wishful thinking.

This is a topic that of course comes up regularly in religious circles, as us religious folks try and fight off the evil metaphysics of modernity (or post modernity, or post post modernity, or whatever you categorization folks call it—whatever the “ity” is that secularized “religion” as a separate thing). Here’s the most recent iteration of that discussion that I’m aware of: https://www.firstthings.com/article/202 ... e-for-kids

Here’s one a bit more dated: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1buybmnQ0nQ

I don’t know if I ever mentioned this here before, but a younger and dumber and much more immature (in my understanding of the Catholic faith) version of myself got the snip after our second kid was born. Not a day goes by that my wife and I don’t regret that decision; it’s a cross we bear. I’ve taken it to the confessional, but it’s gut wrenching for both of us to see families at church with 3, 4, 5+ kids and to wonder what could have been; what would kid number 3 have looked like; what special graces would kid number 4 have brought into this world?

ETA: Recently I’ve come to realize that I should just bigly discredit the opinions of anyone who is intentionally childless and not a Religious; it’s sort of equivalent in my mind to someone telling me they are a “Dog Mom,” or any number of other things people say and do that should signal to everyone around them that they are metaphysically broken and should therefore be pitied but certainly not looked to for wisdom.
Last edited by Hristo Botev on Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:31 am, edited 4 times in total.

TopHatFox
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by TopHatFox »

@Hristo, I dunno, I haven't really enjoyed living enough to warrant making someone else go through the experience. Most of it has been work, work, work. Like, don't get me wrong, road tripping the US or sex is fun, but that's like 1% of the experience. You end up having to convince yourself work = rewarding because that's 99% of the experience. Maybe if you're FI, you can homeschool your kids, and they can already start making startups from their in-demand interests from the get-go?

Otherwise, they have to go through the pain and suffering of excellent K-12 to get a scholarship, hopefully picking one of the good STEM degrees, working for years living in a room (and probably alone since dating in a room = hard), to then risk the career they built to make a business to get out of the poverty loop. They can shorten it a bit with trades or military, but higher chance of injury than desk job.

Even the first paragraph assumes you have a suitable wife to homeschool with, and statistically, gen z women are not told being a mom is cool, and they're more likely to divorce you than not.

I could see it if you're Christian though, more people in heaven is good in the eyes of God I'd imagine. Still, the Earth experience more than likely be 10% suffering-suffering, 80% mundane, 10% happy. I see it as doing the kid a favor to not have them a lot of the times. In fact, I sometimes wonder the % of people worldwide that would rather have not existed than existed.

ertyu
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by ertyu »

To me, the only reason to have children is you find the experience of having this sort of bond with a small person and actively applying yourself to parenting them until they become a big person inherently meaningful. You need to be motivated by the craft of it, by the desire to do it to the very best of your ability because you inherently find it a meaningful thing to do, as with all relationships (this is also my position on marriage -- the only reason to do it is if you'll find consciously applying yourself to building this sort of bond to be inherently meaningful and this motivates you to do your best).
Last edited by ertyu on Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

chenda
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by chenda »

Hristo Botev wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:01 am
I’d been purposely avoiding clicking on this thread since it resurfaced cuz I knew it would be the sort of discussion that would (a) set me off and (b) cause me to ask myself wtf I’m even doing on this forum, as I often do recently.
Well I hope you don't leave as, whilst we probably disagree on many things, I like reading your posts.

Some fertile couples choose to adopt children from extremely deprived backgrounds to give them a better life. There was a good film called Lion I saw about an Indian boy who was adopted by an Australian couple after he got lost in India (and 20 years later found his birth mother via Google earth)

TopHatFox
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by TopHatFox »

@chenda, adopting makes sense: "now that you're here, life at an adoption agency likely sucks more than what parents could provide." Who knows what kid you're getting and from what parents, though. Tbh, these questions seem moot a lot of the time; peoples' finances show they can barely provide for themselves, let alone little people. I wonder if our birthrate declining is just a symptom of the empire of the west slowly collapsing, much like rising birthrate is likely a symptom of the empire growing and expanding.

chenda
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by chenda »

@tophatfox - yes it could be an issue if you are adopting older children who might have had traumatic experiences. The aforementioned guy's adopted brother struggled to adapt to his new life because of past trauma.

Although birthrates are falling in the west (and even more so parts of Asia) immigration is more than offsetting the decline in many cases. It's odd the article which @hristo linked to doesn't mention that.
Last edited by chenda on Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

lightfruit55
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by lightfruit55 »

Thanks for reviving this thread. I've been struggling with this issue (wrote a post about this in my journal if anyone is interested). In short, I'm at the age where my childbearing window is very rapidly closing in on me. In terms of capacity/ability (partner's desire and willingness, us being generally conscientious, disciplined, well adjusted, and having financial security), I believe we would make good parents. The problem is that I haven't found any compelling reasons to want/have a child. However, given that I'm hesitant to go for a medical procedure to make myself permanently infertile, I suppose that I'm still somewhat open to the idea of having a kid(?).

What are some good/compelling reasons to have, or net benefits of having, kids? It's not easy to find materials online (apart from "warm fuzzy feelings" kind of articles/posts). Are there any *rational* reasons to have kids?

ertyu
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by ertyu »

lightfruit55 wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:11 am
Are there any *rational* reasons to have kids?
Assuming they are sufficiently abled and that you don't completely alienate them by being a shitty parent (both materially and emotionally), they will probably feel guilt about leaving you to rot in your old age.

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