Is Finland the ERE nation?

[johnsmith84730]

I've always been impressed by the resiliency of the Finns.

I also noticed that in Finland, and in northern Europe in general, a much greater willingness to use things longer (years longer) and then repurpose them or sell/give away the items after many years of use. It's much less common in northern Europe to see large piles of recently purchased furniture/electronics/other home-wares out on the street than say the US or Australia.

From the Financial Times:
War with Russia? Finland has a plan for that
https://12ft.io/https://www.ft.com/cont ... 73b2ef1924

I've avoided pasting the whole article due to copyright concerns, but here are some highlights:

It has supplies. At least six months of all major fuels and grains sit in strategic stockpiles, while pharmaceutical companies are obliged to have 3-10 months’ worth of all imported drugs on hand...

“We have had hard experiences in history many times. We haven’t forgot it, it is in our DNA. That is why we have been very careful in maintaining our resilience,” says president Sauli Niinisto...

The National Emergency Supply Agency (Nesa)... has a balance sheet of €2.5bn, which consists of its strategic stockpiles of six months’ supply of grains such as wheat and oats, and different types of fuel such as petrol and diesel as well as certain undisclosed “strategic assets” including partial ownership of the national grid...

Finland is not just focused on the threat of invasion, but on other forms of attack — be they local, such as the poisoning of a water source or taking out of a power station, or national, like cyber attacks...

A danger is always that authorities rectify things based on the previous crisis, but Toivonen says a strength of Finland’s approach is that it helps prepare for “black swans”, or unexpected events, by having as its main focus protecting the “vital functions” of society...

[chenda]

Yes Finland is great except they have mandatory military service and it gets really cold!!

[sky]

Sorry, too close to Russia.

[white belt]

If Finland is so forward thinking, why are they just now scrambling to join NATO? Most countries have experienced “hard times” in the past and have strategic reserves of important resources. Finland is particularly vulnerable because they import so many commodities.

[chenda]

If Finland is so forward thinking, why are they just now scrambling to join NATO?

Well in fairness their neutrality arguably helped her security throughout the cold war, although the calculation may now be changing.

That Finland both survived and thrived is quite an impressive achievement, given that they brawled with both sides during ww2.

[zbigi]

I also noticed that in Finland, and in northern Europe in general, a much greater willingness to use things longer (years longer) and then repurpose them or sell/give away the items after many years of use. It's much less common in northern Europe to see large piles of recently purchased furniture/electronics/other home-wares out on the street than say the US or Australia.

It must be at least in part because people in Finland on average just aren't as well-off as Americans or Australians. The salaries are lower, while the taxes are draconian.

[jacob]

It must be at least in part because people in Finland on average just aren't as well-off as Americans or Australians. The salaries are lower, while the taxes are draconian.

Not entirely so.

The median salary in Finland in 2020 was 3228EUR/month or $42600 per year. The median salary in the US in 2019 was $35977.

https://www.stat.fi/til/pra/index_en.html
https://policyadvice.net/insurance/insi ... an-income/

While I'm not familiar with Finland, I suspect they've not yet bought into consumer culture as their Anglosaxon counterparts. The "throwaway" culture is not as strong. There's more focus on quality over quantity. E.g. in the US people might replace their $750 Made in China sofa set from five years ago because the colors no longer match the new wall paint. In Scandinavia, people are not going to toss out their $2000 designer couch unless it's falling apart.

[Stahlmann]

Short time of naturalization (5 years; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization) makes this social democracy country interesting target for international Welfare Looters-Kings class.

I dated Polish emigrant on Saturaday. She emigrated with ex-BF to Norway. I think she has 5 years of residence. After loosing health at 31-35 years, she took 2 years of this specific social help from government. "How do they check it, like doing nothing for 2 years and getting paid for this? No way, 6 months of holiday and then some kind of rehab? No?! How?!?!".

Coming back to Finland:
Availability of MSc studies for foreigners in English?
Availability of temp work for foreigners?
Availability of housing for student foreigners?
Perspective on extending this period of naturalization?

[chenda]

Coming back to Finland:
Availability of MSc studies for foreigners in English?
Availability of temp work for foreigners?
Availability of housing for student foreigners?
Perspective on extending this period of naturalization?

As I've told you before you can live, work and study anywhere you want in the EU. You won't even be considered a foreigner in legal terms once you establish residency. Get on the Baltic ferry this afternoon if you want. And yes I imagine a lot of higher education is delivered in English.

I don't think though it's quite as cushy as you imagine, and anyway, you shouldnt be trying to milk welfare systems without paying your way.

[Stahlmann]

Ok, understood. Thanks for your patience in trying to change my mind
Have a nice day.

[Jean]

I really like Finland. I've been there a few Time. It feels richer than most of thé usa. Nature is Amazing and very accessible, and while they are very close to russia, the last russian invasion was a terrible russian faillure, so i'de actually feel safe about it There.
Also, finns are nice, and quite open to other way of doing things.
The cold and dark winter are a matter of taste.

[jacob]

I don't think though it's quite as cushy as you imagine, and anyway, you shouldnt be trying to milk welfare systems without paying your way.

I know that the Danish system for EU migrants is set up to prevent this. The residence permit requires the immigrant to be "self-reliant" for the first 6 months or so. This means either a job, money, or a Danish spouse willing to pay (many aren't, separate economies is the default). After that one can get on welfare, but it's a miserable experience of mandatory "job training", regular (biweekly? monthly?) meetings with a case worker, one might even be sent out to pick up road side trash to "train" the ability to get up in the morning.

On the second part, the natives are really into the welfare state. It's practically their god. This also means that there's lot of stink eye directed at those who remain unemployed for longer than absolutely necessary. Even FIRE gets flack because many don't know that shareholders pay tax on their dividends. A quick way to become a media sensation is to publicly state that one has no interest in working and just live to milk the system. "Not working" is basically considered a moral failing. Try searching "site:dk dovne robert".

[chenda]

Ok, understood. Thanks for your patience in trying to change my mind
Have a nice day.

Stahlmann my advice would be to take advantage of your EU passport and if possible use geoarbitage to maximise your income and savings.

@jacob yes I'm imagine similar residency requirements exist is most EU countries.

[Jean]

If you want to milk welfare, France is thé place where it's thé least frowned upon

[guitarplayer]

For settling in Finland, language could be a barrier. Strangely, Finnish is linguistically related to Hungarian and these two languages together are unlike any other mainstream language. I only know a few words in Hungarian but used to know basics of Turkish which is an agglutinative language like the former two. It is quite fun to learn this different way of putting sentences together if one is into languages. Like, what is a whole sentence with a number of words in English would be one word in an agglutinative language.

I had a flatmate at uni who studied ugro-finnic philology. She was cursing Finnish like hell, but ended up learning Hungarian and currently happily lives in Budapest working for a corporation and doing pottery after work.

[johnsmith84730]

I don't think though it's quite as cushy as you imagine, and anyway, you shouldnt be trying to milk welfare systems without paying your way.

Why not?

If there is a policy of allowing people who are living in Finland legally to receive certain social benefits, why shouldn't one receive those benefits?

I assume the country has decided it is *everyone's* best interest to have these policies...

[johnsmith84730]

I know that the Danish system for EU migrants is set up to prevent this.

Yes precisely - the Danes only pay a progressively increasing % of benefits to families with children until you've been there around 5 years. So "coming for the welfare" doesn't really work as you will only be getting a small % of it at the beginning, and it only increases very gradually.

This policy was changed a few years ago - a smart move I think.

[johnsmith84730]

...there's lot of stink eye directed at those who remain unemployed for longer than absolutely necessary.

I would agree with this (it's similar in all of the northern European/Scandinavian wealthy countries). Generally, "working" or "contributing" is seen as part of the requirement of being part of society.

However, I would add one nuance. Most people would consider even low-paid, low-productivity 'jobs' are considered pretty much fine in terms of fulfilling your 'obligations' to society. For example, a grad-student, an artist, a part-time stay-at-home parent part-time coffee shop worker - these would all be considered to be 'moral' actors by most.

This is the key difference I would say between the "contribution-expectations" in northern Europe vs. say the US. In the US you're not really "doing enough" unless you're working 80+ hours a week - no help will be coming your way in any case.

[chenda]

of allowing people who are living in Finland legally to receive certain social benefits, why shouldn't one receive those benefits?

Yes you're probably right, I was just in a judgemental mood I think

I do second @Jean's take though, Finland is generally pretty great, especially in the Summer.

[johnsmith84730]

Yes you're probably right, I was just in a judgemental mood I think

Yeah don't worry you're not the only one. Sometimes I start thinking/talking the same way, and then I remember that life is short, all 'morals' are made up, and the only thing each of us has to do is live and enjoy life (usually enjoying life means being generally nice and respectful to other humans).