Jupiter's Intro

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Jupiter
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Jupiter's Intro

Post by Jupiter »

Hi everyone,

I am new here as well as to the forum universe (it is my first time joining a forum, and I am a baby when it comes to having a persona on the web). I fear I am too timid to casually involve myself on the Internet. However I felt deeply connected to Jacob's message when I first read his blog not so long ago. I have always been attracted to similar life philosophies. Since then, the idea of evolving into a more responsible, conscious, autonomous, etc. human being has solidified into my mind. I feel ready to embark onto an ERE-flavored path, and I want to document my way as a mean to keep north.

I hope I can also contribute to some conversations on the forum, although I lack experience in practically all areas of life to be of any help or hold a meaningful opinion. I read other people intros, and they seem to indicate some general profile information, so I will leave you on that :
  • Girl, mid-twenties;
  • University student, currently pursuing a MS in Computer Science;
  • Living in Canada;
  • Loves sleeping, reading, drawing, writing, cooking, gardening, running, riding bicycles, hiking, learning new languages, daydreaming and talking to friends;
  • Dislikes watching television or films, playing golf, shopping for clothes and programming;
  • On the wiki of ERE, there is a page that is just a list a of things to do when you retire. I plan to do most of them :)

mathiverse
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Re: Jupiter's Intro

Post by mathiverse »

Welcome!
Jupiter wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:00 pm
  • ...
  • University student, currently pursuing a MS in Computer Science;
    ...
  • Dislikes ... programming;
Ooof... I can relate. I am a software engineer that has gone through periods of really disliking programming. I sometimes like it though, so I can stay grateful for those periods.

Are you planning to become a software engineer once you leave the MS? Why are you doing the MS in CS if you dislike programming? Actually, maybe a better question is how you ended up in the MS in CS while hating programming?

Jupiter
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Re: Jupiter's Intro

Post by Jupiter »

Thank you mathiverse! I really hope I will get to the point where I have those periods of grace in programming. I hope the downs are not occurring too often for you. Wow, those are rough questions.

I don't think I hate programming exactly; I just never found it enjoyable or been able to reach a state of flow through it. I was unsure of what path I would pursue after high school, because no subject stood out for me, maybe to the exception of PE because I liked team sports and played soccer often as a teen.

I took all science options because it was the default options for people wanting to go to college with all faculties open. I had no red flags back then, because I really enjoyed school and learning, doing exams... So I told myself : "Since I like everything in school, working hard, thinking about abstract things, learning stuff, ... no matter what I choose as a career, I will like it". Cute! Also, we had various science classes (math, chemistry, physics, geology, geography, biology) but no CS. And I am a curious person so I could not resist to register into the only science-related program that I had not tried... even though I never really had any affinity with computers, so in retrospect it was not a champion's move. But still cute.

After my first semester, during my Bachelor's, I started to feel weird about CS. This was confirmed later on (I did 4 to 6 month internships in a telecom company, a physics research lab, a car company, a newspaper, a non-profit organization and a college -- for development on a server, for particle simulations, for parallel computing, for AI video prediction, for data visualization, for web development and for teaching web-based assets development). I also was part of clubs (I did autonomous robotics and video game development in that context). Nothing ever really clicked, even though every time the workplace was fine and I had a marvelous team I could count on and lunch with.

The MS was an attempt to change the career options into something more math-related (it is actually CS with an option in operation research, I study game theory and mixed-integer programming optimization for my research), but by lack of interest in what I am supposed to care about, I don't think that so far it is a win over pure development. At least I enjoy my autonomy (no schedule, only have to report periodically to my advisor), and the other graduate students in my lab are great.

Since I am very optimistic by nature, I still hope to like CS and programming one day. Maybe I just have not found the right job yet. Also, I don't know what else I could do that would be more enjoyable in terms of exchanging skills for money, so I guess that yes, I intend to follow the software engineering path.

macg
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Re: Jupiter's Intro

Post by macg »

There are (applications? frameworks? automation platforms? not sure what to call them) out there that can be used for automation without getting down and dirty with programming. Things like chef, puppet - I personally love and use Ansible.

Don't get me wrong, I personally think that anyone who gets into IT should embrace programming at some level. As I've stated in a few posts, I don't do "deep" programming (e.g., web applications), but I do a ton of scripting. Scripting can be helpful in all aspects of IT, from excel spreadsheet functions all the way to automation of regular tasks.

So I'd recommend to keep trying to find some form of programming that you enjoy, so you don't give up on it ... But look into things like chef and Ansible as well. Good luck!

AxelHeyst
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Re: Jupiter's Intro

Post by AxelHeyst »

Welcome! You find find Cal Newport’s thoughts on career approach relevant, particularly in So Good They Can’t Ignore You. imo that book pairs well intersecting with ERE, particularly for people at the beginning of their careers.

Jupiter
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Re: Jupiter's Intro

Post by Jupiter »

Thank you for the clue, macg! Yes, those platforms are an option for sure, although I must admit I sometimes like the mind puzzle that lower-level development present (in the case where I know the pieces and I am looking for an intelligent way to combine them, as opposed to the case where I have to extract them in a labyrinthine handful of documentation, the latter being not uncommon for large codebases). I used to do math competitions as a kid (yup, very nerdy, I know, but finding the right answer to a theoretical and carefully calibrated school question has always been playtime for me) and it reminds me of that. Unfortunately, in dev, that puzzle is often quick to solve by the mind and very lengthy to program and test.

Another thing I would like to try eventually is a vein of more human- centered or involved work, such as team/project management or peer programming. I don't like humans interactions to the point where I would teach at primary school, but I do feel like programming is lacking of it to the point where it extinguishes my morning spark of motivation rapidly. I love being part of a team collaborating in real time for the stochasticity it brings to life (like in a soccer game!). Also, focusing on a piece of code with two pairs of eyes and two brains worked wonders when I was doing it with friends during school labs. I heard it is not too bad in real companies as well (depending on if the colleague is a good match of course).

And I otherwise heard that the domain of your line of work influences a lot on whether you like it, by giving it extra purpose. I still have not identified what that purposeful domain would be for me, but I keep an eye on stuff like the 80,000 hours organization and the UN sustainability goals in case the envy of joining force with some organization over a certain issue takes upon me.

Jupiter
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Re: Jupiter's Intro

Post by Jupiter »

AxelHeyst wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:01 pm
imo that book pairs well intersecting with ERE, particularly for people at the beginning of their careers.
Thank you AxelHeyst! I have not read this book, but I might have read similar ideas from other sources. If I am correct, it does not buy into the very ingrained idea that everyone should be in love with their work and if they are not, it is of course because they are misplaced. If I am not correct or there is more to it, please tell me! I would gladly read that book.

On the passion-work subject, I have a few thoughts I wrote down here, but I would also be interested to hear about yours.

Although it certainly seems as if it is true for some individuals, I don't find the phrase "follow you passion" to be a suitable career advice for me, as passion can manifest unpredictably (for the moment at which it appears, the duration of the obsessive phase, the rate of decline of interest, the subject of obsession and the marketability, career-wise, of the subject). I want to touch, feel, think about, learn and do a lot of things during my life, and if I did that without giving myself the time (or forcing myself to take it) to acquire enough skill to follow the sudden envies... I would be a mess. I believe strongly that I am not alone on that point.

Plus, I believe if you keep at something for very long, you can adapt and flourish in your new environment, even though it might be hostile at first. The idea of imposing myself that adaptability challenge is tempting. The only thing that I regret is that it will force me to temporarily become someone I would not 100% like to be and to engrain knowledge I don't care about by itself (lazily caricatured : a computer person knowing everything about how to plug a couple frameworks into another couple frameworks, with the frameworks occasionally changing to new ones).

It is not that it's a bad thing at all; more that in the ideal scheme of things, as an optimization person, I would optimize my LP ("life problem" instead of linear program in this instance ;p), a problem comprised of inviolable constraints being imposed externally (like lifespan or minimal need for resources) and of violable constraints (being what I ideally would do/not do with my time) without the need to relax any constraint at all. However, I doubt my LP can be solved in that case. The feasible region would be void. Unless I lack the right heuristic that would conclude otherwise... The fun part is that there is still room for optimization on the relaxed version of the LP. I just have to choose the violable constraints to keep intact that would still allow me to get a good objective value.

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Re: Jupiter's Intro

Post by AxelHeyst »

Ha, I’d say your thoughts on the topic are very rich already and that’s awesome. The main takeaway of the book is that ‘follow your passion’ is wrong because it assumes people know their passion, and need to just pursue it. But it’s not that simple. Better advice is “passion follows craft”, meaning, if you find work /activity that meets certain criteria for not being totally against your values or inclinations, and you pursue excellence in it, and focus, and eliminate distractions, you will likely begin to find the activity intrinsically rewarding. Also, incidentally, if you do all that, you’ll probably get so good at it that people will bend over backward to pay you money to do it for them, let you negotiate flexible schedules, etc.

The book is very career centered, so ERE folk who have in mind a short or non traditional career path (eg semiERE) need to take the applicable bits and modify the rest. But there’s gold in there for those willing to sift.

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Re: Jupiter's Intro

Post by jacob »

AxelHeyst wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:05 pm
Also, incidentally, if you do all that, you’ll probably get so good at it that people will bend over backward to pay you money to do it for them, let you negotiate flexible schedules, etc.
I think this is conditional on being in a growth industry (like Newport's). Otherwise, you might find that having done all that is only enough to buy admission and that success depends more on politics. In such cases the Gervais principle is more applicable. This in turn can lead to burn out, not from being overworked, but from losing faith in the resulting passion.

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Chris
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Re: Jupiter's Intro

Post by Chris »

Jupiter wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:00 pm
  • Loves sleeping...
I applaud this.

On my high school Spanish tests, there'd often be a question about favorite activities, or hobbies, or weekend plans. I'd always list "duermo" first, and the teacher would always mark it wrong! It is an activity, it is my favorite, and it can certainly take the #1 spot.

Re: being a CS major who doesn't like programming, there's no problem with that. As a tech person who doesn't get to do as much programming as I would like, I can say there is a big demand for people who understand concepts and how things fit together, even without the need to program. The people who majored in "info systems" or "biz tech" don't really grasp the stuff as well. But a lot of techies don't want to leave the code, so there is certainly a gap that exists for a non-programming techie.

Jupiter
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Re: Jupiter's Intro

Post by Jupiter »

AxelHeyst wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:05 pm
if you find work /activity that meets certain criteria for not being totally against your values or inclinations, and you pursue excellence in it, and focus, and eliminate distractions, you will likely begin to find the activity intrinsically rewarding.
Perfect! Thank you AxelHeyst, that is surely an experiment I will attempt on myself :)

Friday night thought experiment based on what AxelHeyst wrote!
The pursuit of excellence/mastery and the intrinsically rewarding quality of an activity seem to be tightly bound, from what I gathered of many life testimonials. Still, the nature of their relationship is not clearly defined in my mind. I will try to put the finger on the bug in a thought experiment (but with handicap, since it's Friday night, and also this might appear as basic considerations to social science people).

Preamble : I will consider the activity/work meets the certain criteria for not being totally against your values or inclinations.

Firstly, I would like to summon the famous experiment they made on kids that drew. A group of kids were supposedly self-motivated to engage into that activity. Then, they split the group and a fraction of the kids started to receive external rewards for doing the activity. That made them stop doing it by themselves if they could not obtain more external rewards. The external reward system added an external source of motivation. Those kids' internal motivation was not sufficient anymore to engage into the activity without the promise of the external source of motivation.

Two thoughts on that :
  1. One is a deduction : External motivation must be a more concentrated source of motivation compared to the internal one, and the human must possess an adaptative motivation threshold in order to engage into something. That deduction will come back later, but I will also note by experience that humans can play with that motivation threshold (and it is actually fun!).
  2. Another is an interrogation : Is finding an activity intrinsically rewarding equivalent as being self-motivated for doing it? I would argue that yes, it is; if one expects nothing from engaging into an activity, but the hope of arousing some kind of positive feedback, they will have incentive for doing it (and repeat if there really was positive feedback). Reversely, if they don't have any other motivation than doing the activity itself, it means they find the activity intrinsically rewarding.
The last point is important for explaining why the pursuit of excellence is likely to (not) be intrinsically rewarding-self motivating. I will do so by using the motivation viewpoint.

My understanding of excellence was originally influenced by a paper (that I read a couple years ago, sadly I cannot remember the source nor the structure of the study, I think it was an aggregation of many experiences) whose conclusion was that it depended on a few main factors : first experiences, opportunities, luck, habits, training, practice, ... (there are forgotten factors here, fallen to the volatility of memory). Basically, there are factors that are external (providence-style) and other that can be put under the hard-work banner.

Those hard-work factors are the interesting ones, because they underline the frequent, concentration-intensive, structured and deliberate invocation of the activity in the mind. Thus, I would dare say the focus & elimination of distractions requirements stated above are redundant. At the same time, put aside, they accentuate a crucial characteristic to the pursuit of excellence : hard-work banner factors must be applied in an effective manner (and crossing fingers for the rest of the factors cannot hurt).

I think I can safely affirm without exterior source that pursuing excellence by itself is a self-rewarding objective with multiple rewards (new learnings, progress, growing interest), highly dependent on what one is looking for (milestones). However, the rewards are hard to predict (external excellence factor can slow/speed up the learning process, or diminish/augment its likability), scarce and pricy (in energy, time, focus, work). There must be a parallel to make with learning curves. Where the curve is cruising, rewards are pouring!

And so we arrive to the bulk of the thought process. Since the pursuit of excellence is self-motivating (but irregular and not always effective), I can identify many whys to the end of the affirmation above 'you will likely begin to find the activity intrinsically rewarding' (by opposition to certainly) :
  • Work is by nature externally motivated. According to deduction in (1), it will likely make it more difficult for a person to do it for the sake of internal reward.
  • Pursuit of excellence lacks of easy rewards. Unless good habits are built, entering pursuit mode will cost a lot of non-compensated brainpower.
  • Put against television shows, if one cannot delay rewards... pursuit mode will seem dull.
  • Even if the pursuit of excellence is self-motivating, one might encounter providence-like factors, for a certain activity, that prevent them to actually like it by denying a vast majority of rewards.
  • ...
I wrote earlier that by experience, humans can play with their motivation threshold. Those are topic-related articles/podcast. I especially liked the podcast, as it explains how to use the physiological binding of focus in order to reach faster a state of flow. It is like a cheat code into securing you from some scarce self-motivation downfalls by encouraging rewards be delivered faster. The willpower collection of papers' summaries states something really interesting about demand over will. If people are already using some of their willpower in an area of their life, it will reduce the willpower available elsewhere. By example, a person trying to diet might find it more difficult to push through a hard studying session.
https://www.apa.org/topics/personality/willpower
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwQhKFMxmDY

Conclusion : The pursuit of excellence in work is tightly bound to its intrinsically rewarding quality, but there are many barriers preventing a smooth and agreeable ride at work, at least on a task-level base. Lowering average stimulation level and focusing on internal rewards might be useful to increase the satisfaction resulting from an activity.

--- End of thought process.

Jupiter
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Re: Jupiter's Intro

Post by Jupiter »

Chris wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:58 pm
I'd always list "duermo" first, and the teacher would always mark it wrong! It is an activity, it is my favorite, and it can certainly take the #1 spot.
Yes!! Sleeping is really fun, and I always wake up so happy and energized in the morning, unless I don't meet my time/schedule requirement, which I dislike thoroughly.
Chris wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:58 pm
Re: being a CS major who doesn't like programming, there's no problem with that. As a tech person who doesn't get to do as much programming as I would like, I can say there is a big demand for people who understand concepts and how things fit together, even without the need to program. The people who majored in "info systems" or "biz tech" don't really grasp the stuff as well. But a lot of techies don't want to leave the code, so there is certainly a gap that exists for a non-programming techie.
That is interesting. I will look for those positions when the job research time comes. What are the job titles for those?

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Chris
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Re: Jupiter's Intro

Post by Chris »

Jupiter wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:47 am
That is interesting. I will look for those positions when the job research time comes. What are the job titles for those?
There are several:

Software engineer - Yup, despite the title, this is not always equivalent to Software Developer. Sometimes it's just due to HR not having broken-out titles to a granular enough level.
DevOps - Since virtualization and containerization, a lot of what used to be hardware infrastructure is now software. There's an entire ecosystem of software that needs to be deployed and maintained to make app developers' lives easier. Of course there are software devs to create all this software, but understanding how it can best be put to use by a SWE organization is a skillset of its own. DevOps people are usually experienced folks who understand the SWE process, but aren't doing development themselves.
Software Configuration Management - adjacent to DevOps, this area is concerned with how software is built and deployed.
Software Engineering Manager - Many devs don't want to take on managerial responsibilities, preferring to stay "close to the code". For this reason, capable people can move into the management chain at a relatively young age if so desired. Some companies expect SW managers to also continue as code contributors, others do not.
Project management - A job of herding cats. SW projects often span multiple teams, and upper management just cares when the whole product is ready to ship. This role requires both people and organizational skills. Someone with tech experience would have the added benefit of seeing through the BS excuses from the dev teams.
Performance Engineer - These people put software through its paces to see how much load it can handle before breaking. And when breaking points are found? It's up to the dev team to go fix it. The engineering piece of this is thinking how best to go about stressing a given piece of SW.
Security Engineer - In a way, similar the previous, but with a security focus. Penetration testing of software and systems. Identifying which of the latest CVEs apply to the organization. Doing the evil thinking before the bad guys target you.
Developer/Community Relations - working as a liaison between user groups and your development org. Your team's software is available to use, but how do we get uptake? Requires working with customers' teams to integrate your stuff into their stuff, or in the case of open source, working with the community through examples or presentations about how to utilize your org's stuff. Very common for teams that work or develop open source SW.
IT/Computer/Software Analyst - a catchall. Could be anything. Oftentimes requires acting as a conduit between management and techies.

AxelHeyst
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Re: Jupiter's Intro

Post by AxelHeyst »

jacob wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:12 pm
I think this is conditional on being in a growth industry (like Newport's). Otherwise, you might find that having done all that is only enough to buy admission and that success depends more on politics. In such cases the Gervais principle is more applicable. This in turn can lead to burn out, not from being overworked, but from losing faith in the resulting passion.
Yep… I feel like Cal covers this with his point that the skill(s) you develop have to be both rare and valuable. Nobody will roll out the red carpet for you if your skill is solving rubix cubes (rare, not valuable), or if you’re in an organization where the skill that is valued is eg politicking and that’s not what you’re good at.

Jupiter
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Re: Jupiter's Intro

Post by Jupiter »

Chris wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:55 pm
There are several...
Wow! Thank you so much Chris for taking the time to explain the positions to me! I really appreciate it. Do you have any insights/wisdom to share for making a first job choice in a computer science related field? I want to choose wisely as I doubt I will spend a whole 35 years in corporate. I am especially interested in geographic arbitrage, company size, mindset and focus. If I can clarify each point :
  • Geographic arbitrage might not be too important since my starting point (and probably my ending point) is Canada, but I could still gain some financial advantage if I choose, let's say, to lead my career in the USA. Also, I don't like to be a tourist for travelling, but I have done internships in other countries and those experiences where fantastic.
  • Company size is puzzling to me. Small, medium, big, huge? I have done internships in a 1-guy startup as well in a huge international corporation, and I liked both environments. I prefer to have more colleagues than one, but I would be very interested in knowing if there are more strategical reasons, as a young employee, for preferring one over the other.
  • Mindset : I have read before some vague career advice articles that describes the ideal new employee mindset, like observing and helping others, being punctual and humble and trying to be helpful and kind to colleagues. However, I wonder if there is something more specific to ERE and CS that could be applicable here.
  • Focus : What should I focus on as a new employee in tech if I want to create myself opportunities for growing and expanding my expertise horizontally through time? Are there any objectives that are useful to set at first? I am hoping to have my tasks change slowly over time to keep an ideal amount of discomfort for learning.
If you also have points you feel are important and you would like to share them, please do so! I am an avid seeker of good career opener moves these days.

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Re: Jupiter's Intro

Post by ether »

Welcome to the hustle!

You'll find high paying work soon I'm sure, it's insane how lucrative the software market is now a days.

-How long until you enter the job market?
-Do you have investment experience?
-Any big goals you have once you reach FI?

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Chris
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Re: Jupiter's Intro

Post by Chris »

You are correct: job availability and pay will be higher in the US. MMM actually took the Canada->US path as an engineer. If you don't want a 35-year career, you'll be seeking high pay and/or stock options. It used to be that working for a startup would mean trading higher pay for options, but that's not really the case any more. At a startup, you can earn a high salary plus a $500k+ kicker at the end of a few years. Startups are pretty fun (with the right group of people) and present many opportunities for learning new things. That's partly due to people needing to wear multiple hats to get things done.

There are many more startups in the US compared with Canada, and due to their smaller size, they often aren't staffed to deal with international workers. And to get the benefit of stock options, working as a contractor is something you'll want to avoid.

On the other hand, large companies are more likely to accommodate international workers. They also provide room for advancement, due to their existing large org hierarchy. If you want to avoid wearing multiple hats, big companies are a place where "not my job" is a more acceptable response.

There's a lot of leverage when working at a startup. And the startup market isn't always hot, so it might be worth it to take advantage of it while it is. You can search CrunchBase (free account) to see which startups recently raised new money (and are likely hiring) as well as do research on founders and other players in the startup world.

As far as mindset, I think a lot of people on the FI path probably started the working life as careerists, gunning for bonuses, promotions, etc. before dialing back. While not planned from the start, it's a pretty good path, since later in your career (5-7 years from now), you can start spending some of the social capital you've banked, in the form of flexible work locations, extended vacations, etc. Once you've proven your value, you can make the job fit your lifestyle (until you eventually RE).

Moneywise, it's easier to attain higher salary increases (in percentage terms) early in your career. Even at today's high starting salaries, noobs are still the cheapest workers, and it's easier for employers to toss out double-digit raises to keep the young ones around. With this in mind, you can put yourself on the path to good performance reviews pretty easily: make your manager's job suck less. Figure out what they hate, and accommodate it. For example, all managers hate dealing with HR minutiae (reminding employees to complete overdue mandatory trainings, etc.). Just do all that without being asked. Be attentive to their gripes and pitch solutions. Say "yes" to easy tasks. Show a desire to learn how your team fits into the company strategy. Learn about new technologies and suggest that you do a PoC. If you don't give yourself work to do, someone else will!

Some good job advice I once received: the thing you do should be the thing they do. In other words, don't be the techie at a utility company. To be most appreciated (financially and otherwise), you should be able to easily draw a straight line from you being successful in your job to the company being successful. That's why in general, you'll see techies to best in the tech industry compared to anywhere else*.

Ok, this is turning into a book. Maybe some of this is useful (-:

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Re: Jupiter's Intro

Post by AxelHeyst »

Chris wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:24 pm
: the thing you do should be the thing they do.
Can confirm; is why I got the boot last year. New to the company boss: “You do *what* again?”

Jupiter
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Re: Jupiter's Intro

Post by Jupiter »

Chris wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:24 pm
Ok, this is turning into a book. Maybe some of this is useful (-:
All of it is useful :-D

Again, thank you so much Chris for taking the time to share your experience! I loved the second to last paragraph about taking useful initiatives. Trying new things or coming up with ideas to optimize everyone's life is so fun. I am happy to learn that it will likely be encouraged.

Also, I never thought that choosing an industry based on the fact I would constitute the main force of production and the targeted domain of product would reveal a factor of success. I will add that to my decision variables :)

Jupiter
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Re: Jupiter's Intro

Post by Jupiter »

ether wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:39 pm
Welcome to the hustle!

You'll find high paying work soon I'm sure, it's insane how lucrative the software market is now a days.
Thank you ether ^_^ I believe you very much after reading your stuff today!
ether wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:39 pm
-How long until you enter the job market?
-Do you have investment experience?
-Any big goals you have once you reach FI?
  • I have about 7 months left before I start earning proper money. The master's is keeping me busy, so time will fly until then;
  • I have a tiny investment on a tax-free saving account in started last year. I will try to retrieve the numbers and launch my journal properly this week or the next, but I think I have about 70k cad in NW, of which about 40k is invested in stocks through an ETF. I don't really have experience, I tried that out of my desire to have tangible object to play with while understanding how to manage my personal finances;
  • Big goals after FI... Woah! What a question ^_^ I have dreams, certainly, but I am pretty sure most of them I can pursue while chasing FI. I will try to make a list, I just have to think for a moment.

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