Interaction with monopolized service providers

[Stahlmann]

Hello,

How to solve the payment problem with an attorney?

The guy wants the full payment, the entire payment when he just sent the lawsuit to the court xD He refers to arrangements that we do not have on paper (we did not receive the contract),

It is fair for me to pay a second payment after the sentence (because I will have any option to pressure him)?

How to diplomatically approach the matter?

I lost flat to the scammers-tenants, now the rest of my money is taken from the "justice" system xD I'm slowly starting to feel like a Joker.

Threaten a complaint to the district attorney's council about the lack of professional ethics? I understand that they have built a system that is supposed to rake the common person and it will be hard to do something

At my workplace, the jokes about the dismissal "motivated" on a daily basis ...

A denunciation to the IRS and all the saints?

I have no health, money or a sense of control.
But I have the bile of a real madman...

PS. Pay attention to tenants laws in case RE investments.

[Riggerjack]

I don't know how things are arranged in Poland, but here in the US, monopolies are granted by political entities (cities, counties, states) who create departments to administrate these monopolies.

These monopolies are very resistant to everything except complaints to that agency. For example, if one has a problem with a utility, go to the public utility commission.

These agencies will have a complaint system, designed to reduce actions and reactions by the agency. It's not meant to help you, rather it is intended to give you a place to lodge a complaint, and hope you drop it there.

However, while the agency may not be helpful, the threat of a complaint to the regulatory department may help in the negotiations between you and the monopoly. Nobody wants to deal with an official complaint, if it can be avoided.

More importantly, avoid lawyers. Avoid conflict. And work on finding better interpersonal solutions when conflict arises. (How much cheaper would simply paying tenants to do what you preferred (leave?) have been than a lawsuit? )

[Jean]

I don't understand your problem.

[Stahlmann]

By "Interaction with monopolized service providers" I meant I'm using lawyers in general. Sorry for being flippant in very specific way (I consider lawyers as monopolized service providers in conflict resolution in rules written by people I don't agree with ). I assume this class of people have the same modus operandi in every country ("ethics", "society"m the way they bill).

(How much cheaper would simply be paying tenants to do what you preferred (leave?) have been than a lawsuit?

Ok, bingo. The guy says he won't move out, because "he doesn't have place". He tends to record every call. In row, he says he rents social housing in the Netherlands (I don't know exact location, if anybody has under table way to check it, help appreciated), I think in Polish court it won't matter (but I wish it would...). It's possible he will move out in June 2022, because his kid graduates from high school (in Poland). I worry about atomic option: parents move to NL, kid stays in one room, in the second they put non-evictable 70+ year old person. So we have to wait for state in Poland to provide social housing... (it means years of lost rent). It's emotionally difficult to pay somebody to leave your flat and how to make deal binding for him. Tenants laws are really favouring them here. This is the way how state resolves housing issues with "help" of private arms.

[Jean]

I had a similar fear.
Tell him that this appartment is your only asset, and that if you cannot rent it, you will starve, encure debt and go to prison. That you find this perspective unfair whatever the law is, but that whatever you do, the legal system cannot make your situation worse than what will happen to you if you let him in the appartment without paying, and therefore, he should think about the different choices you have.

[zbigi]

Is that basically a convoluted threat?

[Jean]

It's not a threat, just an invitation to put himself in op's shoes. But clearly, the tenant is mistaking patience for an ability to forgoe this revenue. It is cleary in both party 's interest to know in how bad a situation tenants puts OP if he wants to negotiate the best possible outcome for himself.
Many bear accident happen because the human doesn't realise how close he is to the bears cubs.
OP is an human, he has the possibility to tell his tenant how threatened in his livelihood he feels, before he feels too desperate to act reasonably. Because OP is in a state close to despair, he could talk to his tenant with an open hearth about how he feels about the whole situation. It will make him want to find a good solution. Most people are affraid of showing their feeling, but it can rarely be used against you, and it makes people take you seriously.
I did that, and my tenant never threatened me again, and apologized (and repaired the wrongdoing) everytime he did something that crossed the lined we defined.
This is if your tenant has a functioning brain.

Otherwise, do you have the right to kick him out by force? What can he do if you were to do that?

If your tenant is stupid or crazy, I hope you look like your avatar.

Of course, if OP can afford to lose money, he could do a quick estimate of how much it would cost him to evict the tenant by legal means, and offer half of that to the tenant (minus the rent he already hasn't paid) right after he left.

This is not legal advice, just how I dealt with tenant-owner conflicts.

[Riggerjack]

Ok. Help me out, here.

You have a property.

You have a tenant.

You want to keep or rent the property, and you don't want the tenant.

What is the cheaper/faster/easier way to get from where you are, to where you want to be?

If I needed a tenant gone, my first move would be a face to face meeting, where we could work out how best to find him living somewhere else.

Some people need help with a deposit. Some need help moving. Some just don't want to go.

If you can buy a personal solution for what is a personal problem on the other end, it's just going to be cheaper than a lawyer. Maybe, from their perspective, you are creating this problem for them. Showing that you are willing to help may go a lot further and farther than lawyers. Deadbeat tenants aren't afraid of a ding on their record, and eviction proceedings are often an extended break from paying rent...

If you plan to landlord in the future, there should be a plan for this sort of thing. Including the long term loss of rent. Because that really happens.

[Gilberto de Piento]

There's a lot of discussion about this kind of issue on the bigger pockets forum. MMM forum has a real estate sub forum where this has come up. Consider looking at those. They are US oriented though. Good luck, I hope you can get it worked out.

[zbigi]

Some people need help with a deposit. Some need help moving. Some just don't want to go.

I suspect the guy just wants to live there without paying rent... Polish law tends to protect such characters to some degree.

[Stahlmann]

Polish law tends to protect such characters to some degree.

Unfortunately yes.

_

From moral perspective this is painful, because the guy rents social housing in NL so his "universal right" from mine perspective is fulfilled. If in his family hasn't been capital accumulation, let him GTFO

I don't mind mentioning housing situation in Poland for young people... (of course this is the reason my lovely tenant wants to protect interest of his son, probably).

Of course, there's lesson here. Income level needed is extremely low, even with ERE perspective it's difficult to grasp that people can get housing from municipalities (and where they lived before applying?!).

This opens another burning issue for me, because tenant as welder and non-working spouse (I worry she had received disability from alcohol based diseases...; this for me as almost strict abstinent is painful) could easily exceed the quota and... just pay us. Tax authorities have been notified. This is blue collar street smartness vs. white collar believing in justice system which doesn't work efficiently.

[GandK]

I am following this thread, and the MMM ones, with empathy. I have close friends whose entire career is in rental real estate, and they do not have many properties. Their situation has gradually gone from comfortable to grim. (I also have an extended family member who, when he heard there was an eviction moratorium, immediately stopped paying rent even though he could still afford to pay. Because why not, apparently. I was ashamed.)

In so many situations, people who have sacrificed their own pleasures to save for the future are eventually forced to give those savings to those who have not. It is demoralizing.

[Stahlmann]

I spotted them near the flat. Before they parked, I was walking on the pavement (it's one of the situation where everybody breaks the law).

Argument ensued. Guy wished that I go to mental institution, I wish in case he paid us rent. Action was too fast, so I don't have filming (which was the plan). I'm thinking about laying down next time, just to have time for filming.

What's introverts advantage over here (in sassing)?

I worry that one day as inexperienced "shy and calm nice guy" I gonna get beaten after standing my ground .

[chenda]

So what did you say to him? Did you try and have a constructive conversation with him?

[Stahlmann]

Well... Case is sent to the court, so I'm trying other methods. No constructive methods during today encounter. Maybe I chickened out. It's difficult to negotiate with somebody with such attitude.

Last time I conversed with on Police station front office and tried to attack his honour so he called me as turd (I had to vent my emotions). But he behaves same way...

At least I can collect evidence that I'm mentally ill so I can also in the future fight for social housing.