Hunting for Food: A Primer

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SnailMeister4000
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Re: Hunting for Food: A Primer

Post by SnailMeister4000 »

Great info, thank you. Hey, how do you (or AK hunters in general) perceive entermanteries such as "Life below zero", AK - The last frontier", "Mountain Men" etc. (assuming you know them). Apart from the typical over dramatisation and that the producers seem to think the viewer has the attention span of a gnat, can you enjoy them too? Personally, as European living in a relatively densely populated area planning to move to a more remote location within the next 2-5 years, I love watching them, but I am curious what the thoughts of "locals" are. (I understand that opinions differ on that and that you response is foremost personally, of course.)

[Edited for language. I somehow thought "knit" was the same as gnat.]

SnailMeister4000
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Re: Hunting for Food: A Primer

Post by SnailMeister4000 »

SnailMeister4000 wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:12 pm
Great info, thank you. Hey, how do you (or AK hunters in general) perceive entermanteries such as "Life below zero", AK - The last frontier", "Mountain Men" etc. (assuming you know them). Apart from the typical over dramatisation and that the producers seem to think the viewer has the attention span of a gnat, can you enjoy them too? Personally, as European living in a relatively densely populated area planning to move to a more remote location within the next 2-5 years, I love watching them, but I am curious what the thoughts of "locals" are. (I understand that opinions differ on that and that you response is foremost personally, of course.)

[Edited for language. I somehow thought "knit" was the same as gnat.]
I realise this question is probably more apropriate in your journal than this post. Sorry...

Farm_or
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Re: Hunting for Food: A Primer

Post by Farm_or »

How well has the .270 performed on moose? Knowing what I know now, I wished that I would have gotten that caliber. I had the impression that it would be marginal for elk and anything bigger?

theanimal
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Re: Hunting for Food: A Primer

Post by theanimal »

@ snail
I'll respond in my journal.

@farm_or

It got the job done. I don't know many who use it besides myself as it is on the lighter side of things. Shot placement becomes a little more significant for moose but I imagine there'd be no issue for anything smaller.

white belt
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Re: Hunting for Food: A Primer

Post by white belt »

Resurrecting this thread as I have taken the first steps on the path to hunting for food.

I'm completing my state's hunter ed course so I can get my license and looking to purchase a Remington 870 Express. I've asked around my social circle to find an experienced hunter, and it seems to be the case that there are many men in their 20's who would like to get into hunting, but never did it growing up and are looking for someone to show them the ropes. I am in the same boat so I haven't had any luck yet.

I've done some research and I plan on starting with small game like squirrel and rabbit. This thread focuses on large game in Alaska, but around me the largest game is deer and I would rather start with something smaller and more numerous. I see a bunch of squirrels outside my house in a more urban/suburban area, but I'm unsure if that will translate to squirrels in the woods at one of the state hunting lands within a ~20 min drive. Anyhow, my other reason for starting with squirrel or rabbit is it is much less intimidating to process small game for a newbie and doesn't really require dedicated space.

The shotgun seems like the most versatile option as it can be used to hunt anything from small game up to the largest game, so I won't need to purchase multiple firearms (just multiple kinds of ammunition). It's also possible to hunt squirrel with an air rifle, but that is quite a bit harder since it requires headshots.

Dave
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Re: Hunting for Food: A Primer

Post by Dave »

Awesome post @theanimal, thanks for the work.

I grew up in the Midwest and hunted deer/rabbits/squirrels/doves pretty often and turkeys/pheasants/ducks a few times. Unfortunately I got away from regularly hunting a bit after going off to college almost 15 years ago. I'm going to be moving back to the Midwest sometime relatively soon and intend to get back into hunting!

@white belt

You are wise to start with small game for the reasons you stated. The way I'd go about checking to see if those state hunting lands have squirrels is to go those areas and see if there are any vehicles and people around and just chat them up. Time your arrival around the time hunters would be coming back to their trucks, which you can probably find online what hours the squirrels are most active in your area and then try to be there towards the end of that period. My guess is there are some, but seasonal/annual "mast"/particular locations within those woods can matter in how successful your hunt will be.

I've hunted both on private and public land. Private lands where you know where everyone physically is lends itself better to mobile hunting which I prefer for squirrels because it allows you to a wider area to search. I wish I had more useful tips for hunting on public land, but my experience with that was limited to well before I was a teenager and not paying particularly good attention.

Over time if you get into hunting and meet a lot of people you'll probably get to a point where you have friends who own land that offer to let you hunt on their property. Try to take an active part in participating in property maintenance/work (maintaining trails, mowing, clearing/chopping fallen tres, etc.) and you will probably be welcome to hunt often. Obviously it's very location-specific, but in my limited experience hunts on private lands tend to be more enjoyable and fruitful.

I always hunted squirrels with a .22 rifle but have known people who used a shotgun. Shotgun is going to be easier/more forgiving due to spread, but that comes with the cost of being more likely to damage the meat and occasionally having pellets in the meat.

bottlerocks
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Re: Hunting for Food: A Primer

Post by bottlerocks »

Re: Deer hunting. The best ROI for hunting is making friends with folks who own land (20+ acres) in rural areas. Many rural landowners don't actually hunt, and fewer trust people enough to allow them to carry a firearm onto their land. If you can find these folks and gain their trust then many times they'll be happy to allow you to help keep their crops/gardens/yards going strong. Doubly so if you offer to do some choring for them. The landowners will likely know the exact tendencies and timings of the deer which make the "hunting" trivial -- but the yield plentiful. I'm lucky to have grown up in rural areas and also have relatives with land, but I know of some folks in my current large city who put feelers out of craigslist and were able to secure free, free-with-labor, or very cheap hunting rights not even an hour away.

If you live in a place with a rampant wild pig population this is an even easier exercise because pigs destroy the entire landscape. You just have to get to the landowners before they hire folks out.

@white belt
If you have an abundance of time one of the best ways to get into deer hunting is to just scout -- a lot. There are plenty of forum posts and youtube videos about how to find bedding areas, scrapes, droppings, and sheds. Once you connect bedding areas, winds, estrus, and geographic features together you can have very good success by just picking up a cheap treestand and getting high, or finding a ground highpoint with cover that has decent shooting lanes. Don't fall victim to hunting "trendiness" or crap that comes on TV (Steven Rinella is the exception). Just have a solid caliber rifle, get comfortable shooting at 75-100 yards (200 yards if not in dense woods), and learn the woods. I've harvested a deer from the ground with an old recurve bow while wearing carhartt work pants, then butchered it 3 hours later...it's not trivial but it's also not rocket science. Time and knowledge is 50% of the battle. The remainder is probably 80/20 luck vs skill.

I know we're out of season for most places now but If you have any specific questions feel free to PM me. I've been away from hunting for a while, but I suspect I have some of the most experience hunting large game (for the SE U.S. at least) on this forum. It's a pretty untapped resource from the online FIRE community perspective. theanimal is one of a handful of folks I've seen write about it and actually apply it.

white belt
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Re: Hunting for Food: A Primer

Post by white belt »

bottlerocks wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:03 am
If you have an abundance of time one of the best ways to get into deer hunting is to just scout -- a lot. There are plenty of forum posts and youtube videos about how to find bedding areas, scrapes, droppings, and sheds. Once you connect bedding areas, winds, estrus, and geographic features together you can have very good success by just picking up a cheap treestand and getting high, or finding a ground highpoint with cover that has decent shooting lanes. Don't fall victim to hunting "trendiness" or crap that comes on TV (Steven Rinella is the exception). Just have a solid caliber rifle, get comfortable shooting at 75-100 yards (200 yards if not in dense woods), and learn the woods. I've harvested a deer from the ground with an old recurve bow while wearing carhartt work pants, then butchered it 3 hours later...it's not trivial but it's also not rocket science. Time and knowledge is 50% of the battle. The remainder is probably 80/20 luck vs skill.

I know we're out of season for most places now but If you have any specific questions feel free to PM me. I've been away from hunting for a while, but I suspect I have some of the most experience hunting large game (for the SE U.S. at least) on this forum. It's a pretty untapped resource from the online FIRE community perspective. theanimal is one of a handful of folks I've seen write about it and actually apply it.
I'm in the process of moving to a new area but it's another state where deer hunting is still quite popular and viable. My plan is to make friends with someone at work who goes hunting regularly so I can bag a deer this Fall/Winter. One deer should give me enough venison to fulfill my meat requirements for about 6 months out of the year. I'm in the military so I'm comfortable in the woods and with shooting, although right now I have a Mossberg 500 with a slug barrel that I will probably just use instead of a rifle.

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Alphaville
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Re: Hunting for Food: A Primer

Post by Alphaville »

white belt wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 4:56 pm
My plan is to make friends with someone at work who goes hunting regularly so I can bag a deer this Fall/Winter.
make sure it's deniro not christopher walken :D

i'd trade the shotgun for a rifle though. you can always borrow one anyway, it's not like there's a lack of weapons going on.

.223 (with good bullets) is like buttah. but ok maybe a little larger for starters. but srsly guns abound (where i live anyway lol). you throw a rock you hit a .30-06 rifle :lol:

white belt
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Re: Hunting for Food: A Primer

Post by white belt »

Alphaville wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 5:13 pm
make sure it's deniro not christopher walken :D

i'd trade the shotgun for a rifle though. you can always borrow one anyway, it's not like there's a lack of weapons going on.

.223 (with good bullets) is like buttah. but ok maybe a little larger for starters. but srsly guns abound (where i live anyway lol). you throw a rock you hit a .30-06 rifle :lol:
Yeah I meant I don’t plan on buying a rifle. I like the shotgun for the Swiss Army knife factor. Obviously if we’re hunting deer that requires long shots, I’ll likely just borrow a rifle since most hunters have an entire armory at home.

white belt
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Re: Hunting for Food: A Primer

Post by white belt »

theanimal wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:29 pm
Canning meat is another option. One that I haven't pursued yet but will be in the spring. Necessary items are a pressure cooker, canning jars and a stove/heat source. This is an attractive option for those not looking to add another freezer and/or for those who aren't interested in shelf ready food.
Did you ever do this? If so, how did it work out for you?

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Alphaville
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Re: Hunting for Food: A Primer

Post by Alphaville »

as a meat eater:

my experience with canned meats is either sublime or vile: no in between. it's either french charcuterie (eg: rillettes de sanglier) or canned beef from walmart.

jerky is always good though, takes little volume, i think the weight equivalence is 1:3. can be eaten as is or rehydrated for stews etc. yes it eventually goes rancid so it's notpreserved forever but should last you fine till the next season.

speaking of rillettes, another preservation technique that gets little attention in these parts of the globe is confitting. which is cooked--and preserved--inside fats. it's how carnitas are cooked, except for preservation you keep them under fat in a cool place.

see: https://cheftalk.com/threads/venison-co ... one.51847/

lastly, air curing or smoking...

theanimal
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Re: Hunting for Food: A Primer

Post by theanimal »

@whitebelt- I've canned some meat since that time and lots and lots of fish. It is very easy and lasts essentially forever. I don't end up canning very regularly as I am able to freeze it most of the time and come summer I am usually very light on meat. I have started hunting for bears though and if I am lucky, I think I will end up canning most of it. I'll provide updates if that happens.

bottlerocks
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Re: Hunting for Food: A Primer

Post by bottlerocks »

@Alpha @white belt, I don't have experience hunting with slugs but that's how my father harvested dozens of deer growing up. I've ranged a friend's 410 with a slug barrel and had no issues grouping at 75 yds (I'm not a particularly great shot). My shoulder was not a fan though.

I've heard mixed things about .223 lethality with whitetails compared to other calibers. If I'm using a rifle it's always a .270. ~10 deer down and only one ran more than 100 yds that I can remember, due to a bad shot. Was more popular in the 90s so it's a pretty cheap used weapon compared to others.

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Alphaville
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Re: Hunting for Food: A Primer

Post by Alphaville »

bottlerocks wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 9:45 am
@Alpha @white belt, I don't have experience hunting with slugs but that's how my father harvested dozens of deer growing up. I've ranged a friend's 410 with a slug barrel and had no issues grouping at 75 yds (I'm not a particularly great shot). My shoulder was not a fan though.

I've heard mixed things about .223 lethality with whitetails compared to other calibers. If I'm using a rifle it's always a .270. ~10 deer down and only one ran more than 100 yds that I can remember, due to a bad shot. Was more popular in the 90s so it's a pretty cheap used weapon compared to others.
i've shot plenty slugs on a 20ga with a plastic stock and short barrel (870 express), and "buckshot" (as they call it, #3 for that cal) is much easier on the body. so i've switched to #3 buckshot for home defense, but have no expectation of accuracy or effectiveness at long distance...

anyway one of my wife's uncles is a seriously avid hunter (it's basically all he does in his free time), and he had us try the .223 with a wood stock he was using for mule deer. it was like playing video games or something--so little recoil, made me laugh. and due to low recoil also very accurate.

the guy also hunts with musket though, so i think basically everything works if you know what you're doing, which--i don't. but that .223 still haunts my dreams :D

theanimal
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Re: Hunting for Food: A Primer

Post by theanimal »

As mentioned previously, a good way to learn is to find someone who has more experience that you can "apprentice" under. If you don't know anyone in your local community personally, it's worth checking to see if there is some organized group online (like on Facebook) You may have to search based on a more specific name unique to your area such as a geographic region, animal, state park/public land area etc. State your experience level and what you are hoping to do. I have seen people find others willing to let others tag along this way. A willingness to learn and put in your share of the work is often rewarded.

My efforts in the past couple years have moved more to the end result, figuring out which cut of meat is which and the best method for cooking. A good starting point are these two videos below. They are applicable to any animal in the deer family (white tail, moose, elk, caribou etc.) and more or less cows, sheep and pigs. It's just the size that varies. In general, the cooking style is more or less the same for all animals, so if you learn one you can learn what to look for and how to cook them all.

Butchering a hind quarter

Bone out a deer shoulder/front quarter

Steven Rinella (mentioned previously) has a cookbook that describes how to cook specific cuts, rather than specific cuts from specific animals. It is a good point of reference. It is likely available through your local library.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/03995 ... thcv_p1_i0

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mountainFrugal
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Re: Hunting for Food: A Primer

Post by mountainFrugal »

Thank you for this thread @theanimal. I am looking forward to dusting off my youth skills in this area over the next few seasons starting with some smaller game and then moving up to pursuing deer again. I have been collecting track/scat/bedding info while out on runs in the forest so my mental map of the area micro-habitats is growing. Thank you also for your discussion of the respect aspect to the animal. Putting in a large effort to track wounded animals even if pushing onto private land was always a tension in the Midwest hunting scene, but a necessary one to respect the animal.
Last edited by mountainFrugal on Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

theanimal
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Re: Hunting for Food: A Primer

Post by theanimal »

Thanks, MF. I'm glad it may have been helpful. Sounds like you're doing well on mapping out your area and the various habitats. Fortunately I haven't had to deal with any complexities with land ownership myself. I can imagine it'd be testy among certain people.

If anyone's interested, I've taken my posts here, cleaned up and expanded them into what's so far a 4 part series on my blog.

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mountainFrugal
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Re: Hunting for Food: A Primer

Post by mountainFrugal »

This is a cool blog! I look forward to reading through your posts and also your massive journal on here.

BlueNote
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Re: Hunting for Food: A Primer

Post by BlueNote »

My Uncle would get some Rotting apples off the ground from people in his neighbourhood who had fruit trees but never actually did anything with the apples so they just attracted hornets. He take those apples and put them at the top of the slope near his house. He lived out in the woods and eventually deer would learn about his apples and come by for more regularly . He then proceeded to shoot the deer through his window from inside the house. The animal would get shot at the top of the hill so They couldn’t run away but just fall over and then roll down the hill and That was usually end of it. He was a GI so was a pretty good shot and I have heard of others doing something similar.

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