Scott 2 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:18 pm
Have you spent time around the affordable rowhomes in your retirement location?
I found neighborhoods that looked great online, could be lacking in person. Maybe there's a small local airport a few blocks away and flight plans go overhead. Maybe you can smell the nearby refinery or sewage treatment plant. Maybe freight trains roll through at night, blaring their horn. Maybe the area is on well water with questionable quality. Maybe homes with a beautiful nature view, turn out to have subtle signs of basement flooding and pest problems. First world problems to be sure. One is fortunate to have the opportunity to consider them. But, problems all the same.
Within the region, I found our housing market to be fairly efficient. Neighbors are the ultimate differentiator. While I'd love a simple (cheap!) townhouse with a 1 car garage, people like me don't live in homes like that. Most people buy as much house as they can afford. So inexpensive housing hosts individuals who, for whatever reason, have been disadvantaged in our society.
On the other hand - maybe you are capable of and would enjoy more interdependence? It's pretty clear over a broad range of traits, you are well above average. Is it worth the price to surround yourself with comparable people? I do think it would be highly unusual to taste that for several years, and then happily take the more humble path.
Looking through my post history, I guess I've already revealed where I would like to settle so might as well just put it out there. My intended retirement location is Philadelphia, which is close to where I grew up and also where I attended college. I return to visit once or twice a month and have many family and friends that still live there. So yes, I am familiar with the area. When I'm talking about the affordability of the area, I checked COL calculators and Philly has a COL of about 50-60% of my current location.
In terms of specific neighborhood quality, I'd say at the moment I'm primarily interested in Class B and C neighborhoods. Class A is too pricey/yuppie/douchey for me and Class D is too rough/stabby for me. I'd say some of the greener/leafy neighborhoods are typically Class B and have slightly larger lots, while there are also some Class C neighborhoods that are more centrally located but also denser. Of course there is a lot of variation. I'm not so sure housing in the city, particularly a dense city built before the automobile, follows the same patterns as housing in other areas built after the automobile.
Scott 2 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:18 pm
It is the same with access to things like nice restaurants or expensive shopping. While I don't value them, because most of my peers can and do, they are present in areas that suit me. The people make my minimum buy in about $300k.
In that sense - you are smart to avoid a bifurcated life. Hedonistic adaptation is very real, and very hard to undo. I wouldn't choose to live in the neighborhoods I grew up in. After seeing the other side, I know what is missing. While there is a point of diminishing returns, in my experience, that bar is pretty high. People pay more because they are getting more.
To be clear, I grew up in a very comfortable upper middle class suburban existence. 4B/2.5BR house, large lawn, good school district, 2 car garage, and all that jazz. I'm very grateful that my parents were able to provide me with security and stability in that way. My parents still live essentially a similar standard of living, just much more efficiently after my dad discovered FIRE. I believed I covered that part in a post on your journal.
However, there were certainly downsides to that life. My dad worked a lot and we as a family spent a lot. There was no extended family in the area, so we were very much the nuclear consumerist family stereotype. I see that same pattern playing out in my current expensive neighborhood. Dual income, shuttling the kids to extracurriculars, cleaning people, lawn people, dog walkers, outsourcing all childcare, and so on. I guess this is the pinnacle of success?! If I do have kids at some point, I'd rather raise them in a different life (maybe one that involves extended/multi-generational family, homeschooling, community, etc).
So back to the point about my "peers". As my spending decreases, I find it harder and harder to relate to yuppies and the wider consumerist culture around us. Everyone is just so focused on their job at the expense of literally everything else in their life. The fact that I can't talk about eating at restaurants or the latest TV show means that we don't have much in common to discuss. I'd rather live a higher quality of life and ERE has given me the framework to do that. I'm still trying to bridge between the mainstream lifestyle and my ERE lifestyle, so I'm not yet sure what form this will exactly take. However, I do have a lot of ideas from permaculture thinkers and others. I know that it will involve some non-traditional things (or rather things that were traditional at all other times in human history except the anomaly of the last 50 years). I think I'd rather live in a working class neighborhood that allows for a bit of diversity, but perhaps I will test drive such an arrangement and change my mind. What I do know is that the bohemians, artists, activists, academics, etc are all priced out of the Class A neighborhoods.
Scott 2 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:18 pm
Within the region, I found our housing market to be fairly efficient. Neighbors are the ultimate differentiator. While I'd love a simple (cheap!) townhouse with a 1 car garage, people like me don't live in homes like that. Most people buy as much house as they can afford. So inexpensive housing hosts individuals who, for whatever reason, have been disadvantaged in our society.
On the other hand - maybe you are capable of and would enjoy more interdependence? It's pretty clear over a broad range of traits, you are well above average. Is it worth the price to surround yourself with comparable people? I do think it would be highly unusual to taste that for several years, and then happily take the more humble path.
Maybe. Or perhaps there are also people who pursue something that isn't heavily remunerated in our current consumerist society? Either way, a large city is unique in the fact that the diversity and density enables me to find/make my own tribe that matches my druthers.