Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

The "other" ERE. Societal aspects of the ERE philosophy. Emergent change-making, scale-effects,...
jacob
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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by jacob »

Lucky C wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:02 pm
Thank you for this, Jacob. Do you have other emergent movement examples like you give at the 1 hour mark which might be failures we can learn from? They seem to check all the boxes, yet have some flaws on closer examination, or for some reason just never caught on?
Lets compare Tiny Houses to van[-living] conversions.

Tiny houses check boxes 1, 2, and 3 of the presentation but they don't have a graceful exit failure-mode. The obvious one is that construction remains unfinished but the sneakier one is that there's no good secondary market if you ever want to sell and move out after a few years. The market is not there (yet?).

Converting a cargo van for living does check all four in the sense that it can be reverted to its original configuration and sold for little loss.

Living in a commercial travel trailer also checks all four.

As such I'd predict that TH popularity will not sustained, whereas van conversions will. Living in a camper has been around since they were invented due to check all four.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@jacob:

The question was mostly rhetorical. Obvious sign that I am significantly Green is my current disdain for anything like brute force efficiency. I don't think that becoming a plumber rather than going to college is an entirely great idea. Also, one of my minor life regrets is that I didn't apply to the Great Books liberal arts degree program offered at St. John's College but instead did the opposite and bundled myself off to engineering school in the U.P.

I must have spaced on the part of the presentation where you described the four different quadrants, but I can grok that clock-making (I don't recall seeing picture of second clock.) would certainly be in a different quadrant from theoretical physics, and the example you offered of "poetry" would certainly be in a third quadrant, and maybe "handling disputes in forum community" would be in a 4th?

I guess figuring out how many progressive (as opposed to passive) hours towards mastery one has accumulated in various fields could be an exercise kind of like Step 1 in YMOYL where you try to come up with a total of all the money you ever earned in your life thus far. For instance, I've almost certainly spent more than 10,000 hours of my life-energy devoted to the activity of Cooking, but most of those hours were not progressive, so my capability level would be much lower than PhD/MasterChef.

Another thought I had was that beyond the dichotomy of knowing of vs. kenning, there would be capabilities you have allowed to go rusty and others you simply no longer can perform. For instance, a 35 year old very talented sports writer who didn't play past high school and a 65 year old retired professional player in the field of Football.

The Old Man
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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by The Old Man »

jacob wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:00 pm
Lets compare Tiny Houses to van[-living] conversions.

As such I'd predict that TH popularity will not sustained, whereas van conversions will.
While I agree, I think it would be best to analyze WHY. Why are not all four boxes checked? I would say it is due to regulatory requirements. Indeed, how exactly is a tiny house different from a mobile home? Despite "mobile" in the name, a tiny house appears to be even more mobile than a mobile home. The difference is regulatory which in turn drives cultural. Change the regulatory then the culture changes and all four boxes are checked.

In the past there were other accommodation options that are unavailable today. Good examples are boarding/rooming houses that were common before 1940 but today are virtually unavailable in the USA. This is due to regulatory changes. Some of the cheapest housing options possible gone because some people didn't like them and changed the regulations forcing them to close. It looks like they didn't really care about the impact on low income people.

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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by AxelHeyst »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:29 pm
I must have spaced on the part of the presentation where you described the four different quadrants,
[]Individually Actionable
[]Honest Society (meaning it would still work if everyone did it)
[]Can get from Here to There w/out a Revolution
[]Graceful Failure is Possible

7Wannabe5
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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@AxelHeyst:

I think those must be guidelines for creative strategies rather than varied quadrants in which to seek mastery. For instance, I think my Lentil Baby strategy which did combine raw competencies from at least two different quadrants would not pass muster on guidelines 2 and 4.

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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by AxelHeyst »

Yes, They’re Jacob’s Guidelines for Designing Emergent Social Movements with an eye towards Resolving the Metacrisis. Any movement that has a poor grade in any category is going to struggle to build or maintain momentum. The slide before the 1hr mark. (Edit: Or rather, the title on the slide is "Ethical standards for emergent movement design", with implications for the potential success of a movement based on those standards.)

RoamingFrancis
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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by RoamingFrancis »

@jacob How do you pick the areas to build skills in? Pure interest?

I ask because sword fighting and clock building seem like cool ways to spend time, but I don’t see what relevance they have towards resolving the metacrisis.

Is it primarily the cross-fertilization among fields that matters, and not so much the fields themselves?

jacob
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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by jacob »

RoamingFrancis wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:29 pm
@jacob How do you pick the areas to build skills in? Pure interest?

I ask because sword fighting and clock building seem like cool ways to spend time, but I don’t see what relevance they have towards resolving the metacrisis.

Is it primarily the cross-fertilization among fields that matters, and not so much the fields themselves?
Interest guides by usefulness. I don't/can't do much w/o interest but that doesn't mean I do everything just because it's interesting to me. For example, I've been talking about getting into the flightsim game again for over ten years but I just can't see how it would be useful.

Swords on the other hand ... once you realize there's more to it than two people swinging metal sticks around. It's a complex subject that is impossible to fully intellectualize. Teaching doesn't build linearly---you have to learn wrong things first to establish the foundation for learning the right things. There are some very rich metaphors.
https://earlyretirementextreme.com/how- ... fight.html

My original "Return talk" was about the various lessons learned from renaissance pursuits. I might dedicate some of the philosopher in residence time to this.

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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by Jin+Guice »

jacob wrote:
Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:36 am
Homeschooling is obvious ... unfortunately it seems like the majority of those who are most into that are exactly the types who probably shouldn't be.
When it comes to savage burns, do you consider yourself to be a technician, mechanic or designer?

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