Which covid vaccine would you pick?

Health, Fitness, Insurance, ...
Peanut
Posts: 551
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:18 pm

Which covid vaccine would you pick?

Post by Peanut »

I debated posting about this topic, and I will understand if it's not an acceptable topic. I understand the first-world position I'm in and am aware of the desperation for unavailable vaccines around the world. I hope I do not offend anyone. I am just trying to get more informed scientifically.

My situation is this: I can schedule whatever vaccine out of J&J, Pfizer, and Moderna that I choose. I am having trouble pulling the trigger. I was set on J&J because it is my understanding that it is a traditional adenovirus type vaccine and similar to the Ebola vaccine which has been around over a decade and has full FDA approval. The one dose is a big plus. But obviously a few cases of serious clotting have arisen, even proving fatal, and I am under 50. Does anyone know what the risk factors for developing the clot issues are for either J&J or AZ? I can find a lot on the mechanisms that cause the clotting but not a word on what any of these women had in common (over 200 in the case of AZ?). Why are younger women more likely to suffer this reaction than older women?

If I rule out J&J, that leaves Pfizer and Moderna. From what I've read Pfizer is maybe a little better against some of the new variants? At one point I read that the Pfizer dosage was 30mg compared to Moderna's 100mg. Not sure if this is still current info, but I would choose the former just because I'm petite, even though I think I know that it's not always a size issue with the dosage. If anyone has any corrections or additional considerations to offer up it would be most appreciated.

User avatar
Alphaville
Posts: 3367
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:50 am
Location: Quarantined

Re: Which covid vaccine would you pick?

Post by Alphaville »

i got pfizer with no pain on delivery, and minimal side effects (sore injection site 24h after first dose, nothing on 2nd)

my wife got moderna with generalized muscle pain the first time and "moderna arm" the second time.

we have different genetics and immunity though so the anecdote is not statistically significant. she always gets sick harder than me, e.g. i sneeze she gets pneumonia.

also i am not concerned with reactions, which likely just means the vaccine is working. when i got mine i wondered if i had gotten a placebo.

my #1 concern is effectiveness, and for that both pfizer and mrna are the best, with pfizer having additional edge against some variants.

with all this i'd pick pfizer hands down. fewer side effects reported perhaps?, extra variants covered, also has shorter time (21 days) for 2nd dose so you get full effectiveness sooner.

but best advice would be skip the analysis paralysis and go get your shot asap, because the risk of covid is greater than the risk of any vaccine. you can always boost later with a different shot, since there is now talk of 3rd doses.

DutchGirl
Posts: 1303
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Which covid vaccine would you pick?

Post by DutchGirl »

Which COVID vaccine would I pick? The first one offered to me.
Because I want protection for me and for the people around me as soon as possible.

(And actually, that's what I did)

nomadscientist
Posts: 401
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:54 am

Re: Which covid vaccine would you pick?

Post by nomadscientist »

So far the Russian one looks like the best. You can get in Serbia without having any connection to the country (apparently there are a lot of anti-vaxers in Serbia).

AnalyticalEngine
Posts: 417
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:57 am

Re: Which covid vaccine would you pick?

Post by AnalyticalEngine »

I got the Pfizer one. The only side effect was arm soreness. It was honestly less reaction than what I normally have with the flu shot. Why did I choose Pfizer? It was the one they were giving away at the clinic. :lol:

Chris
Posts: 684
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:44 pm

Re: Which covid vaccine would you pick?

Post by Chris »

I plan on getting all 3, just to be on the safe side :-D

User avatar
Alphaville
Posts: 3367
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:50 am
Location: Quarantined

Re: Which covid vaccine would you pick?

Post by Alphaville »

Chris wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:26 pm
I plan on getting all 3, just to be on the safe side :-D
🍻

ertyu
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: Which covid vaccine would you pick?

Post by ertyu »

nomadscientist wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:31 am
So far the Russian one looks like the best. You can get in Serbia without having any connection to the country (apparently there are a lot of anti-vaxers in Serbia).
what type is it?

IlliniDave
Posts: 3270
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:46 pm

Re: Which covid vaccine would you pick?

Post by IlliniDave »

I got Moderna, and it's the one that seems to anecdotally come with the fewest reports of severe side effects. So if I had it to do all over again I'd pick Moderna again, assuming I had a choice.

macg
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:48 pm
Location: USA-FL

Re: Which covid vaccine would you pick?

Post by macg »

My order would be Pfizer or Moderna (probably Pfizer first choice if I HAD to choose), then J&J.

BUT, I would have gotten any of the 3, you should take whatever is available.

I happened to get Pfizer (1st shot so far), but I didn't know going in which would be available to me, I was getting whatever they were giving 😁

UK-with-kids
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:55 am
Location: Oxbridge, UK

Re: Which covid vaccine would you pick?

Post by UK-with-kids »

In the UK all the older people have been given mainly Pfizer and we've got down to vaccinating people in their 40s but it's all AstraZeneca Oxford vaccine. This worries me because it's banned for under 60s in many countries. I think I remember hearing that Dr Fauci predicted it would never get FDA approval. There's currently a massive propaganda campaign underway to convince people it's safe and better than getting Covid, which is quite worrying in itself as it seems quite untrustworthy. I'm quite hesitant about getting it. If I was offered Pfizer or Moderna I think I would get it straightaway.

chenda
Posts: 1753
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:17 pm
Location: Nether Wallop

Re: Which covid vaccine would you pick?

Post by chenda »

UK-with-kids wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:49 pm
In the UK all the older people have been given mainly Pfizer and we've got down to vaccinating people in their 40s but it's all AstraZeneca Oxford vaccine.
I'm sure it's absolutely fine, millions of people have had it. I had it last month, will get the second dose in June. (I didn't know what type it was until afterwards, they just stuck it in my arm and then I got a card afterwards telling me it was AstraZeneca) They had some surplus stock about to expire so I was able to jump the <40 age queue. Honestly it's such a relief just to know you've got at least partial protection. I think Fauci walked back his comments anyway.

User avatar
Ego
Posts: 5172
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Which covid vaccine would you pick?

Post by Ego »

We are at a very strange point where it seems that each vaccine has a small but possibly serious risk (myocarditis, blood clots...) and - at least where I am - the risk of contracting a serious case of Covid right now is extremely low..... exceedingly low for healthy people. Back in January we had almost 5000 daily cases in a county of about 3.5m people. Yesterday we had 144 cases and 0 deaths. Also, as of yesterday 2.6m vaccine doses have been administered in the county.

So, as a person with no medical conditions, I am waiting for more information.

I just checked and found that there are 18 vaccination sites within walking distance of my home, many of which no longer require an appointment. Right now I can weigh the risks daily and decide to be vaccinated within a few hours.

If I had to decide today it would be J&J.

That said, I fully expect to get vaccinated. If for no other reason than because the complete genomic sequence of many versions of the virus have been posted publicly or quasi-publicly. It is now extremely easy to manipulate DNA and an undergrad with a curiosity about synthetic biology could figure out from the various strains which DNA changes cause 10X gain of function. If you enjoy being terrified then I encourage you to listen to the Sam Harris podcast about this topic that I posted in the main Covid thread.

pukingRainbows
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:56 pm

Re: Which covid vaccine would you pick?

Post by pukingRainbows »

Am I the only one thinking about the possibility that vaccination as a long term strategy (which is where I think our current situation is leading) will eventually relate to a vaccine-resistant virus? I'm foreseeing annual COVID shots similar to the flu shots already being done.

I can't help but think about antibiotics and their eventual misuse resulting in superior strains of bacteria. In the same way, I think regular vaccinations could similarly result in a vaccine resistant strain of virus.

I understand how bacteria and virus differ in their biology, pathology, treatment, etc., however, their similar capability to adapt is what I find concerning.

I am curious to hear other people's thoughts in regards to this.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 7217
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Which covid vaccine would you pick?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

The larger the population of the virus the more it will mutate. Therefore, the more remaining unvaccinated humans the more mutation. The flu also has alternate animal hosts in which it can grow population and mutate. Of the mutations that do occur within the unvaccinated vessels, the extreme minority which have mutated in such a way that they are now capable of re-infecting the vaccinated will obviously proliferate easier than the mutations which can only exist within the unvaccinated. There is no magical positive force within a generation of virus willing it to mutate in response to vaccines. Mutations are random and require large reservoir to proliferate. This is why those who understand the mechanism and the math are very concerned about the need for poor citizens of the planet to also have access to vaccines.

slsdly
Posts: 360
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:04 am

Re: Which covid vaccine would you pick?

Post by slsdly »

@pukingRainbows: Locally, the Canadian government is signing deals with Pfizer for booster shots in 2022, 2023 and 2024, with the possibility they are reformulated for a variant:

https://globalnews.ca/news/7783486/covi ... r-vaccine/

The vaccines we got within a year have been shockingly effective. Governments would have been grateful for a 50+% effectiveness, and the mRNA vaccines knocked it out of the park at 90+%. I'm not sure it is an easy call to say this is permanent, especially with the claim that mRNA vaccines are quick to reformulate, won't need lengthy public trails and we now have the infrastructure in place to produce them quickly.

Peanut
Posts: 551
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:18 pm

Re: Which covid vaccine would you pick?

Post by Peanut »

Thanks all for weighing in with your experiences.

Another question I have is why there are so many widely-experienced side effects from these vaccines? I'm talking about the nausea, migraine, fatigue, etc. I have never had a vaccine reaction in my life, and (knock on wood) same for my kids? But they seem par for the course for the covid vaccine.

@UK: You don't have the option to get any other vaccine? Will that change soon? To me the concerning news about AZ seem to pile up daily. Hundreds of cases of rare clots, dozens of deaths. From what I can tell it is less and less likely that it is only statistical noise.

Along the same lines, I have concluded that given my own demographic my attachment to J&J isn't very defensible since I have other options. I will get the Pfizer.

saving-10-years
Posts: 554
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:37 am
Location: Warwickshire, UK

Re: Which covid vaccine would you pick?

Post by saving-10-years »

@Peanut - what rate of side effects are you talking about here (re. AZ).
I am 65 and have had AZ once and will shortly have second dose. The proportion of clotting side effects at most ages its vanishingly small.
This article records that lots (maybe your hundreds?) of people who have had the vaccine have turned up at A&E anxious about headaches. But most don't have a problem (beyond a headache). The actual chance of clotting effect is around 4 in a million.
Among the 20m shots administered in the UK so far, 79 people have developed one of these issues after having that vaccine, of whom 19 have died, including three who were under-30, the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) said.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... de-effects

Worsens if you are younger (most under 30s have not had a shot yet - so that is a higher rate.
This is the chart that is being used in briefings in the UK to show the risks in the UK in age related terms. Different charts depending on High, Medium and Low chance of expoure. (We are currently in medium rate where I live). If the rate of transmission is high then even at younger ages the AZ version is better bet than chancing it with COVID. Our DS is 24 so will be offered a non-AZ option when his turn comes. But we are fine with the one we are offered.

Image

On the plus side a yonnger distant relative had AZ last month and noticed headaches and was checked out and they have spotted two small brain tumours that would otherwise have been missed.

jacob
Site Admin
Posts: 13231
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 73
Contact:

Re: Which covid vaccine would you pick?

Post by jacob »

I'd pick Pfizer.

The common side-effects is your immune system responding to get rid of the intruder---you're experiencing these signals to get you to lie down and take it easy---if you experience them you know that the body knows the spike protein. These last 2-3 days which is about how long it takes the body to break down the injected mRNA or destroy the replication-blocked genetically engineered adenovector.

If you get the actual disease instead, you'll get many/most of these side-effects as well as the body fights it while the virus is replicating throughout your system infecting whatever cell has an ACE2 receptor for the spike protein to bind to and that's a lot of them (but mostly the respiratory tract, lungs, and eventually the heart). On top of the immune system effects, the actual disease also has real effects like loss of smell, dry cough, shortness of breath, diarrhea, and high fever which like the side-effects are experienced in various degrees from nothing to full-on (regular cold to really bad flu). Usually lasting 1-2 weeks. Some of the more serious effects requiring hospitalization are trouble breathing, ARDS, serious clotting, and death. These can last weeks, in rare cases months. Some damage may become semi-permanent, e.g. long-hauler syndrome that involves chronic fatigue syndrome, brain fog, aches,... lasting years. Similar effects were observed in SARS-1. This can happen as an after-effect of both mild and serious cases.

Anyway, all the vaccines are well-described on the wiki. The clotting issue has AFAIK only happened with the adenovirus based vaccines for reasons that involve a rare combination of immune responses that are above my paygrade (google Andreas Greinacher for a theory).

What I wanted to say is that using US numbers, there are now 100 million fully vaccinated people but "only" 33 million who have tested positive. We've had about 16 months of data collection for the disease and about 5 months of data for the mass vaccine (almost 16 months as well if trials are included). That is to say in terms of "manhours" both the vaccine and the virus---both being novel to humanity---have been equally well "tested" although it's a bit simplistic to put it like that.

Also, about 20% of the US population are under 16 and can't get vaccinated yet are fully capable of getting infected and infecting others. There also appears to be about 20% of "resisters" who are dead set (ha!) of not getting it ever, that is the vaccine, they seem open-minded towards getting the actual disease. This leaves 40% in the susceptible/infected class which is not enough for herd immunity. Presuming children/resisters are not going to self-isolate for the rest of their lives, the virus will become endemic with breakouts here and there culling a small fraction the remaining susceptible herd (1.5% x 40%) but not overloading the health care system. I think the experts know this. The optimistic hope/public communications strategy is that "resistors" and "holdouts" will convert ASAP before a sufficiently adverse mutation makes a more convincing case, but lets be realistic here: the fraction of people needing concrete/personal experience to change their mind is substantial. Some of the vaccines seem further ahead of the curve in that regard than others, e.g. Pfizer already has some cross-immunity against B.1.1.7 which is 65% more virulent and is currently burning through Michigan. Also, it'll only take 17+14=31 days to reach near full immunity whereas it takes 42 days with Moderna.

Thus Pfizer is my pick.

Gilberto de Piento
Posts: 1649
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:23 pm

Re: Which covid vaccine would you pick?

Post by Gilberto de Piento »

Peanut wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:05 pm
Another question I have is why there are so many widely-experienced side effects from these vaccines? I'm talking about the nausea, migraine, fatigue, etc. I have never had a vaccine reaction in my life, and (knock on wood) same for my kids? But they seem par for the course for the covid vaccine.
For what its worth I experience side effects about half the time with the flu vaccine. I get sweats, chills, aches, and I feel very tired for about a day. The j&j covid vaccine gave me the same symptoms for about two days. None of it is terrible, I just felt a bit ill.

Post Reply