Protecting against dementia

[Hristo Botev]

wow. i had no idea. you seem to have mended well and seem to have made the best out of the circumstance.

I also was COVID Patient 0, at least according to DW: viewtopic.php?p=199120#p199120.

[7Wannabe5]

@Sclass:

I feel bad for your Mom. If I had been her friend, I would have told her that the best cure for husband taking a second “wife” when you are 50 is to get yourself two more husbands ages 65 and 35. ‘Cause then when you pick up your phone and ex says “ I am flying in tomorrow. Come pick me up.”, you will be like “Huh, who is this? Too busy. Get an Uber.”

Of course, egalitarian polyamory can also make you a bit demented, but I think it’s a better way to go. Also increases the possibility that your body will be found within minutes by your younger lover rather than after the spring melt by your kids.

[Sclass]

My mom did get a couple of boyfriends. When I really think about it I realize it was about revenge and inciting jealousy. I really didn’t understand till it was all over. I guess my dad pulled her closer in response because he wasn’t interested in sharing. I guess from her point of view it worked.

Hey, another thing is Benedryl. Aren’t there some studies out there saying that there is a correlation between long term sleeping/allergy pill use and dementia?

[jacob]

Hey, another thing is Benedryl. Aren’t there some studies out there saying that there is a correlation between long term sleeping/allergy pill use and dementia?

Apparently only the stronger versions. So maybe file this under possible but not plausible.

There was no increased risk of dementia among patients who took other types of anticholinergic drugs such as antihistamines (Benadryl) and gastrointestinal drugs.

This was a short term study with finite dose exposure. Dunno about long term bioaccumulation, but I do know that "some people" are popping Benadryl like candy instead of pursuing lifestyle modifications to avoid the allergens, e.g. "cat + many years of daily Benadryl" instead of "no cat".

https://www.webmd.com/alzheimers/news/2 ... entia-risk

[classical_Liberal]

Be careful to remember that the cognitive decline associated with dementia is a symptom of an underlying disease process. There are many different disease processes that cause someone to exhibit these symptoms. Not just one. It's very difficult outside a clinical setting to discern one form of dementia from another based on the cognitive symptoms.

IOW, a cough can be caused by COVID, COPD, environmental factors, etc. Each "cause" would entail different preventative measures to prevent the symptom of a cough.

I say this not to discourage healthy lifestyles in general. Rather that trying to avoid very specific things because they may have correlation to one type of dementia is probably a losing battle. What's bad for one type of dementia causing disease, may be good for another. Certainly the stress of following each new individual study and the associated lifestyle modifications itself, might be more harmful than the correlated activity.

[AxelHeyst]

On the duration vs. quality of life angle, I got a lot out of "Die Wise" by Stephen Jenkinson. The book is at least 60% longer than it needs to be, but still worth it. tl;dr: our culture is afraid of mortality, and what we call life extension is actually often death extension - prolonging the process of dying, and making it absolutely miserable and terrifying. He recommends cultivating a healthier relationship with mortality so that when our time comes we go out with wisdom instead of fear. I'm not doing his ideas justice - but they really impacted my thinking about death and life. Recommended. You can find various podcast interview episodes if you search his name.

[J_]

Ahh, a nice coincidence: The book titel @AH mentiones is "Die Wise".
The book I read/practise to protect me against dementia and other wealth diseases is "How not to Die" of Michael Greger. I think both books are important to us.
Other than the general trend (was?) in our forum I think that the study and mastering of how to eat and live well is of greater importance than becoming financial independent.

[ertyu]

For those choosing to stay child free (like myself) who have a history of dementia in the family (also like myself), planning for end of life decline has even greater importance. What do other child-free people around here plan to do? Trying one's best to prolong healthspan is a no-brainer, but it's also not a guarantee.

[Alphaville]

i’ll join a motorcycle gang, take up base jumping, and go surf in shark-infested waters, all of which i’ve always avoided

running with the bulls in pamplona in old age is also appealing

btw, having children is in no way a guarantee that:
-they will look after you
-they will look after you according to your wishes
-they will look after you according to your wishes in any kind of competent way

so it’s still a big gamble and certainly not a reason to procreate

[AxelHeyst]

My end-of-life care plan is to die swiftly of complications related to the collapse of western civilization. Like, die in a flood, famine, or killed by a coked out thirteen year old boy with a kalashnikov. I'm joking, of course.

+1 to Alphaville's point that your kids might or might not take care of you at all. It's hard to judge what elder care options are going to look like in 2078, when odds are getting fair I may not be able to remember where I put my pills. Will the US have decent universal health care? Or will it be a balkanized hodgepodge of warlord strongholds? Will I be sliding in to my 80's as a weird hermit all alone out in the desert? Or will I be a long-standing, valued and cherished member of a stable ecovillage, with lots of nubile hippy types to tend to my needs with respect and affection? My actual thinking tends to this last strategy, along with a presumption that if I run in to something rather serious in my 60's+, it's quite possible that's what'll take me off in the absence of sophisticated medical care that is standard now.

[Alphaville]

speaking of hippies, i want peyote not morphine if/when i’m terminal

[classical_Liberal]

What do other child-free people around here plan to do?

My observations of people who reach the age in which mental or physical limitations are threatening indepence shows that many become symbiotic with partners/spouses. Think in terms of one is blind the other is deaf, so together they can function (obviously not exactly this).

My plan is to leverage this situation by purchasing a small multiunit property. Charge reasonable rent to hand selected people in a similar situation. The interdependence of three or four couples/people with a common goal of staying independent as long as possible should push the limits further than a single nuclear couple/family.

The other option is relying on the state. Frankly, even most people who have children end up relying on the state anyway (US-centric).

Edited to add: I think, if the Medical infrastructure collapses with society (ie warlord bands or whatever). It's likely most won't live to an old enough age for these things to matter. Once basic treatments like IV antibiotics for pneumonia are gone, or disease management meds for things like heart failure are no longer available, the end of life process with be significantly condensed.

[Western Red Cedar]

My plan is to leverage this situation by purchasing a small multiunit property. Charge reasonable rent to hand selected people in a similar situation. The interdependence of three or four couples/people with a common goal of staying independent as long as possible should push the limits further than a single nuclear couple/family.

I think this is basically what Vicki Robin did. It hit on multiple goals: building community, investment outside of the market, and a more robust plan to age in place.

[classical_Liberal]

@Western Red Cedar
I didn't know that. The last I had read about her she was doing some type of local only food project. Here I thought I had a rather original idea

[Western Red Cedar]

@CL - Smart minds think alike. It's a great long-term strategy to build community and protect your own self-interests. Chop wood, carry water.

[Sclass]

I read someplace online where an old guy said the problem with getting old is none of your friends are young. Not the case for everyone of course but he did bring up a good point.

I’m actually avoiding my older friends. I know it sounds crazy, but after getting sucked into my mom’s world and using every calorie of extra energy to maintain her living standard, I don’t want to be anyone’s tool anymore. I can see it coming a mile away, it starts by one of these old folks asking me for a ride to a medical procedure. Then it’s just downhill from there. And forget about social capital, because they’ll be long dead when I need help. The very reason they’re calling is because they are social capital broke.

My aunt has called up many times and asked me over for lunch and I’ve flat refused. She started glomming on to me around the time my mom spun out. “Oh Sclass you’re such a good son, you really know how to take good care of your mom.” Right. And her daughters live 1000 miles away yet she still wants to live in LA in a four bedroom home alone. I get it, she wants independence and she is still active in a great many ways. But, I don’t want to be her effing tool. She calls asking for IT work, furniture moving, home repair and I just flat out say no.

I told her daughters to move her to their towns while it’s still easy. Nobody seems to want that. My cousins said “well at least she has you, you’re the closest geographically”. Screw that!

It makes me think about my future. I guess I can pay for support up to a point. But I learned from my personal experience that a bag of money alone isn’t good enough - you need trusted agents. The bottle of pills is an option.

My dad basically married a woman my sister’s age. She’s 60 now and showing signs of early onset dementia. Btw she suffers from severe Rheumatoid Arthritis. It’s interesting watching my dad try to come up with his plan C at 85. His youngest child has moved cross country last month to literally escape the noose. She gave up free SF rent in their home because she saw the writing on the wall. Time for plan D daddy. better not involve me.

He suggested he could move into my late mom’s home and I can reassemble her care team for him if things get worse. I’m going to have to practice saying no in the mirror today.

[jacob]

@Western Red Cedar
I didn't know that. The last I had read about her she was doing some type of local only food project. Here I thought I had a rather original idea

The local food project was 10 years ago. She's currently interviewing people on youtube about collapse (look for "What could possibly go right?") in association with the Post Carbon Institute. See https://www.postcarbon.org/our-people/vicki-robin/

[ertyu]

Opens the question, when is bottle-of-pill time.

Very relevant here, I doubt I would have the social capital, and even if I did, I would be under no delusions that anyone would actually enjoy dealing with me.

Someone somewhere on reddit said that their mother was very active well into her 70s, fit, cycling, enjoying life, etc. In the end this meant that her body was in shape and could go on for longer while her mind was rotting. In the end it only prolongued her suffering.

There was an Atlantic article a couple of years ago about a dude who resolved not to get any care (other than palliative) past the age of 75. Maybe there'd be something there.

[jacob]

And her daughters live 1000 miles away yet she still wants to live in LA in a four bedroom home alone. I get it, she wants independence and she is still active in a great many ways. But, I don’t want to be her effing tool. She calls asking for IT work, furniture moving, home repair and I just flat out say no.

I suspect many get into a state of overshoot as they get older being unable to maintain their way of life on their own. It's a kind of "infrastructure debt" that they're trying to get others to pay. The simplest example would be to own a piece of furniture too heavy to lift or a room so cluttered they don't have the energy to clean it. Other examples would, of course, be relying on car transportation as driving skills decline.

I'm pushing the "Swedish death cleaning" concept on everybody I know because I think it's crucial to match one's liabilities with one's declining assets as one gets older. If too much "negative equity" develops, it's easy to develop so much infrastructure debt that even family doesn't want to help pay it off and so people get stuck where they are. It's a kind of comfortable misery. It doesn't feel good, but the effort to change has grown unmanageable. Unfortunately, it seems to be one of those things that a lot of people need to learn the hard way.

[jacob]

There was an Atlantic article a couple of years ago about a dude who resolved not to get any care (other than palliative) past the age of 75). Maybe there'd be something there.

Ha! I have that one bookmarked https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... 75/379329/

There's definitely something there. What I suspect will happen in a great many cases is that one will tend to start moving the goal post as one gets closer to the "deadline" and "still feels fine".