classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

[jacob]

I'd suggest looking at a marriage more like a funeral---wait bear with me here---in the sense that it is not for the sake of the main character(s) but for everybody else. Presumably you already know what you mean to each other(*), but official/ceremonial marriage also means that your respective families will see your relationship as serious and on the family level which is one step up from the live-in girlfriend/boyfriend level. Governments, banks, insurance, healthcare, etc. will also see it that way and marrying comes with a lot of state-backed "contracts" that are respected all over the world both legally and culturally. This might come in handy should one of you get run over by a bus and put into a coma and the other be asked/denied making medical decisions in favor of your estranged third cousin who is your only living relative.

(*) Although it's certainly possible that one might also see it as a down payment on long term commitment, the financial equivalent of giving away/receiving a long term put option on relationship capital.

You can of course roll your own set of contracts (unknown-unknowns?) and eventually family will see long-term relationships as a de facto partnership anyway (especially if children are involved). My parents weren't married until I was 20 (I was a witness), but Danes are a pagan lot and many "contracts" become valid by default if you've been co-living for a certain amount of time.

What I think is most crucial is that you each see marriage the same way. For example, common lenses are 1) romantic; 2) contracts; 3) cultural mandates; 4) "forever and ever". Conflicts obtain when these lenses go unstated and partners just presume that the other one is operating under the same assumptions as oneself.

[RealPerson]

For what it is worth from an internet stranger 30 years into a marriage. I would never get married because of outside expectations. You need to want it. If your GF wants marriage but you don't, that should give you serious pause. Marriage is mostly an officially sanctioned contract that mostly deals with finances, obligations etc. What you feel in your heart can never be truly part of a contract.

I second the earlier comment regarding kids. If you want them, marriage is a way to cement a social structure that will be tested many times under the stress of raising a family. Without kids in the planning, I really cannot think of any reason to get married.

Having said that from the guy perspective, I can understand your GF desire for marriage if she wants kids. Children historically have put a greater financial strain on the women as compared to men. The women want a contractual commitments from the potential father of their children, to make sure they are supported while economically suffering more during the child rearing years. And then there is that eternally ticking biological clock. Fertility starts dropping off after age 30 and dramatically after age 35. Your GF is seeing this conundrum and wants it resolved. Do you see the same life vision as she does? If so, get married! If not, it is only fair to let her know that so that she can get on with her life and find a partner that shares her dreams.

[classical_Liberal]

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[Peanut]

First off, congrats on quitting (again)! Even better that you did it in such a way that they are open to rehiring you in the future.

As for making big life decisions around marriage, I disagree with the idea that there is no reason to get married beyond having children. Getting married is starting a family in its own right. IMO it brings a lot of intangibles into the relationship that benefit it. And I think a lot of people don't ever feel really ready, I know I didn't.

On having children, though I highly recommend it, if I were you and you are really dead set against having children I would get a vasectomy or at least entertain the idea with the GF. Rare indeed is the woman who does not end up wanting kids with her husband. It's not just about wanting kids for yourself either, it's wanting to see your husband in the role of father, about sharing that adventure together, etc. If she was quite young when you guys got together, kids were probably not on her radar. They may not be now either, but they may be soon. If you suggested getting snipped to her, it might jolt something for her that she hasn't considered fully. I'm not saying her plan is to marry you and force a baby on you; I'm just saying without knowing much about her there's generally a good chance she will want a child after she gets hitched. My theory for a long time has been that the many women who say they don't want children when they are in their 20s but then change their minds a decade later are probably just hedging against disappointment of it not happening, either due to not finding a mate or fertility problems (which a lot of women instinctively fear). It's just a subconscious psychological defense mechanism.

[classical_Liberal]

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[classical_Liberal]

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[fingeek]

Awesome - sometimes we need a little external push to get us on the way. Keep us updated on your ERE as I'm sure you will, and enjoy it!

Love that cartoon too and your associated wisdom - never seen it before, and has given me a lot to think about.

Purpose and social interaction - hah, I found I was craving the exact same things on the maslof heirarchy (and currently finding them in work... for now)

[take2]

The thing is, when I look back at life, by far the best and toughest periods have been the transition periods. So much hope for the future, so much uncertainty. These have been the placeholders, or inflection points that I always harken back to when I think about how good my life has been. I've gotten to choose direction and take the time to figure myself out. Each time I remember telling myself, "don't forget the things that are important to you", "don't get too sucked into whatever it is you do next". But I always forget anyway.

Although it's hard work to step into the next phase of life, I have really softened the blow with all the financial capital I've accumulated. At the moment it doesn't seem like enough. Yet, in the back of my mind, I wonder if it's so much that it might stunt my ability to move on.

That really spoke to me. I have found this as well - the transitions when I take my nose of the grindstone and wonder what’s next. The uncertainty in those moments seems simultaneously unbearable and enthralling yet when I later look back it almost feels like it couldn’t have gone any other way. I think you posted earlier about how you would never have imagined your current life 5 years ago yet you’re happy with the way it’s all worked out? I find that to be true as well. Perhaps the best thing is to trust yourself.

I’ve followed your journal (+ posts on other threads) for a while and really appreciate your views as they’ve helped me work some of my own stuff out.

[Biscuits and Gravy]

I also know that I'd be OK without her though too. I think that's actually a good thing?

That's a wonderful--and very important--thing. You've probably seen this title thrown around the forum, but Passionate Marriage by David Schnarch is an absolute must read on this issue. (Thanks to @7w5 for the original recommendation.) I'm almost eight years into a marriage and, while I doubt my 24 year-old self would've comprehended everything in this book back then, reading this book would've saved me and my partner a lot of pain over the years. And, just to end this with some snark, you've managed to make it through life without messing up and having kids, why mess up now and get married? Kidding. Marriage is a wonderful (and binding, stifling, frustrating) human social construct. Best of luck.

[classical_Liberal]

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[mooretrees]

Great job quitting! Bet they were surprised. FU money got used in the literal definition. Time to start your bar tending career?

Marriage and kids. I would highly suggest pulling the plug on a vasectomy before marriage. There's something about getting married that might tip your GF over into the 'having kids is the next life step' camp. It did for me. Guess Peanut also covered this, but your GF has a long time of fertility ahead of you two. Also, while you haven't gone into any details, it is a tidy solution to birth control that lasts forever. Do not look up anything about the procedure online, seriously. It will suck for a few days, might be a little expensive (it's sometimes considered an elective surgery), but then that problem is solved forever.

I was convinced DH was the right man for me in all sorts of ways, and I still had a panic attack the day of my marriage. I've never had a panic attack before. Boy do they suck. But, I got over it and it's been a good decision. I know you know this, but you really can't anticipate what it feels like. 2B1S alluded to this, but it really does feel different to be married. Maybe not for everyone, but it has for me. I think Jacob's post was right on for marriage increasing other people's regard of your relationship. I've appreciated that new status as the years go by. I'm five years into my marriage and it's getting better and sweeter.

[7Wannabe5]

It’s a good deal for you getting a partner that much younger with no kids in the mix, but it’s a bad deal for her because she will likely be left alone at end of life.

[7Wannabe5]

I mean I think it would only be fair to proffer possibility of open contract allowing her to also acquire younger partner while she is still in top form.

[AxelHeyst]

Sidenote, my GF is an ENFP. One of the interesting dynamics to our relationship is that she's super adaptable. At the same time though, she's constantly thinking of a dozen different things she wants to do in the next few months, and I never know which shes serious about. The thing is, I think she's serious about all of them for the few minutes shes thinking about them. It gives me the fun of trying to figure out how we could realistically make each of them work. Also the frustration of spending a day mapping it out only to find she's onto something else the next day. It does teach me a more "go with the flow" attitude that's been super beneficial to my ERE adaptability though, and I greatly appreciate it.

Oh god... c_L, I have some hard news for you. Better sit down for this one.

You and I are dating the same woman.

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The Big Snip was my 30th birthday present to myself. Best $500 I've ever spent. I've had bad dreams that were worse overall experiences.

+1 Passionate Marriage. I saw it mentioned in Suo's journal, got it, and am working my way through it. It's already having positive impacts in my relationship.

[classical_Liberal]

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[Jin+Guice]

I'd suggest looking at a marriage more like a funeral

Criminally out of context, but I couldn't resist.

Apologies in advance to your girlfriend. You know I'm against marriage and I am very pleased with my decision to not get married. Good luck to both of you, whatever you decide.


Congratulations on quitting your job and good luck in your semi-ERE endeavors. You know I am rooting for you and reading along with great interest.

[Frugalchicos]

Congrats on your decision of quitting your job. I wish you the best in your next life phase. Keep it cool and enjoy your time off!

[horsewoman]

It tickles me to no end that one gets congratulations for quitting ones job here. Everywhere else there is either pity or derision as soon one is out of a job. I love this place :)

[ertyu]

my favorite part is spelling it w*rk

[classical_Liberal]

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