Where to move

[chenda]

no. even where there's no industrial pollution, people burn shit for heating.

Singapore.

[Alphaville]

Singapore.

$$$$ but yeah i’d move there... maybe.

[unemployable]

Singapore.

Too hot.

I've looked into Chiang Mai, though. Cleaner, cooler and cheaper than Bangkok.

[chenda]

Too hot.

I've looked into Chiang Mai, though. Cleaner, cooler and cheaper than Bangkok.

I liked Chiang Mai, at least more than Bangkok. Though Thailand was generally a disappointment to me. The islands will full of British larger louts, Bangkok smelt of raw sewage, Pukett was full of fat 50 something western men with 15 year old thai girls on their arm and looking utterly shameless about it. The whole country felt seedy, corrupt and dangerous. Drugs everywhere, bent policeman, violence, poverty, prostitution. Generally dodgyness everywhere. I never felt safe, as much from the other tourists as from the Thais. I mean in felt immensely safer in South America and North Africa than Thailand. I really don't know what westerners see in the place other than its dirt cheap and the food is excellent.

Btw, I'm not blaming Thais for this as I think a lot of these problems are probably the result of foreigners and local officials cashing in quickly and trashing what would otherwise be a great country. I've Vietnam has done a much better job at handling tourism.

[Viktor K]

@unemployable I feel you, and Durango has come up a few times. It's much higher than I want to pay, though, for the kind of space I'm looking for. Some outside yard for the cat and for me and gf to get out of the 4 walls would be nice. Right now housing is about $1700 after utilities. Rent is $1550. ~650 sqft with a view of neighbors' backyards on both sides.

The aesthetics are affecting my mental.

I have never looked at Singapore because of price. I assume it is still out of my price range though.

@unemployable @chenda Thailand I've looked at and been to. And kept up with @slowtraveler and his travels there. Unfortunately, Chiang Mai when I went and last I heard from slowtraveler also has pollution issues. Bangkok as well... but actually looking at https://aqicn.org/city/bangkok, it seems like the pollution may be seasonal. Although I traveled there in the summer, so not sure what was happening when I went.

I can't second all the feeling in your post for Phuket specifically @chenda. Then again, I avoided the main area, I forget what it was called, but it's where all the clubs (and presumably prostitution, drugs, etc) are. For me it was snorkeling, hiking, and, like you mentioned, crazy cheap, fresh, great, from what I ate at least, even healthy, food. That was my 10-day dash through the country though. During that time I did get picked off by police for the 1-time that I was riding without a helmet (serves me right).

The two Eastern countries that come into mind are Malaysia, and Vietnam. Malaysia has always been on my list, but I haven't checked it in recent years. Veitnam only on my list recently with their Covid situation, recalling what friends said in the past when I wasn't interested in it, and some of what @C40 has mentioned recently about it.

Right now, I'm not 100% ready for getting on another airplane and moving abroad. So maybe Canada? The PR process seems vague though. BC seems really nice, but I also don't think I can get a place with a yard there in my price range. It's hard to find rentals online.

- Canada
- Vietnam
- Malaysia
- Durango, CO
- Some part of Utah
- Raleigh-Durham NC

Utah, I never talked about but I did live in Nevada. My picture of Utah is that it's kind of same climate as Nevada. I wish Nevada where I was was more green, but it was desert with canyons. I know a lot of my rockclimbing friends rave about parts of Utah. I have a subjective bias towards more trees and green grass, though, I guess. That could always change.

NC has come up before from people in person even. I haven't got excited about any rentals there, but can keep looking. Otherwise it does seem to check a lot of boxes.

@Miss Lonelyhearts I only moved back to the US last summer, so I think it's moreso the people that I get along with/seek out for friendship take time to find. We frequently reminisce of our friend group back in China last year, which has since been scattered all over the world.

[Alphaville]

oh, durango is a really charming town to visit but pretty isolated and pricey. there’s a small college and there’s skiing, but unless you’re a prof there, not sure what you’d do? work in hotels? i get that you work remotely, but at some point a in person interactions open doors...

i’d avoid utah unless you’re into their main religion. if you are, then it should feel like home to you.

malaysia also can be quite religious? i have friends from there and they came to the u.s. to be free (but ymmv). great if you’re muslim though.

if you miss chinese culture maybe somewhere in the north american west coast... san francisco obviously $$$ but maybe vancouver & environs?

for the u.s., raleigh-durham sounds attractive if you like some quiet plus there is some intelligence in the air. just don’t go to winston-salem, which is apparently the runt of the litter. similar cigarette names got me confused last time talking about it.

[unemployable]

@unemployable I feel you, and Durango has come up a few times. It's much higher than I want to pay, though, for the kind of space I'm looking for. Some outside yard for the cat and for me and gf to get out of the 4 walls would be nice. Right now housing is about $1700 after utilities. Rent is $1550. ~650 sqft with a view of neighbors' backyards on both sides.

Check out Cortez, then.

[Alphaville]

Check out Cortez, then.

what’s he gonna do there? plant beans?

[unemployable]

what’s he gonna do there? plant beans?

He said he works remotely. I was going to mention Mancos or Bayfield but you'd have to drive for groceries

[Alphaville]

He said he works remotely. I was going to mention Mancos or Bayfield but you'd have to drive for groceries

yeah, but he and his girlfriend are at the start of their careers... i get the remote work part, but there is such thing as personal connections to a local economy and culture...

denver? ok, hub of the southwest.i can see that one working.

this withdrawal seems to me premature, even wrongheaded. but maybe im completely wrong—what do i know?

eta: https://www.pcmag.com/news/20-high-tech ... -call-home

there’s cheap and there’s good value. i’d shop for value. i mean this for the OP.

[unemployable]

this withdrawal seems to me premature, even wrongheaded. but maybe im completely wrong—what do i know?

I intimated a similar thought in my longer post on the previous page. Citing my own experience in Chicago, even.

[Alphaville]

I intimated a similar thought in my longer post on the previous page. Citing my own experience in Chicago, even.

yep, i read it, and i wholeheartedly support what you said there.

[Viktor K]

Cortez seems a little too out of the way. I'm not sure why I'd live there, it doesn't seem to check any of the other boxes for the things that draw me to CO e.g. mountains... But if I settle for canyonlands, then it could work I guess.

I hear the concerns with being remote early on in career. I think they're a little out of touch with current COVID conditions but more importantly, for someone like me who doesn't have and never has had or utilized a personal professional network to get ahead. Seems like a game I'd have to fake to play... I think I'll be fine networking online and cold-applying? Seems to have worked so far and doesn't feel gamey.

@Laura Ingalls Richland Center, WI, Columbia, MO, Decorah, IA, Fort Madison, IA, Pepin,WI, Bayfield, WI, Madison, SD will look into all of these shortly...

If things don't work out in next city/town/country, can always move again. I think we'll rent for now. I'm starting to worry that the US might just be out of our price range, for what we want: convenience, access to healthcare, low pop density, access to nature.

We could afford a vehicle if we spent a little less on rent.

Looked at Athens, OH. Seems to be surrounded by forest and water, which we'll take as a substitute for mountains. Price seems right..

Not really looking for reasons to stay in Chicago. It's fine enough pre-COVID, feels claustrophobic post-COVID. The only pre-COIVD activities that I've lost out on were playing football, and comfortably walking around the neighborhood. Clubbing, dining out, the arts... not my interests. I play video games, exercise during sports activities, like to hike up mountains and play d&d over internet chats.

Whiting, IN @jacob kind of looks the same as Chicago to me and no single family homes in my price range.

- Canada ($$, PR process)
- Vietnam (abroad)
- Malaysia (abroad)
- Durango, CO ($$)
- Some part of Utah (canyonlands)
- Raleigh-Durham NC (maybe)
- Athens, OH (maybe)

Trying to see some other things I've missed in thread...

[Viktor K]

Richland Center, WI - can't find many rentals, not a lot of hiking
Columbia, MO - first house that pops up: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/309- ... 9237_zpid/, would work for us. It's actually too much house for us, I'd say. All kinds of hiking nearby, I think I can add this one to the list for further looking.
Decorah, IA - similar issues to Richland Center... these are probably too small for me.
Fort Madison, IA - seems ok, but low on hiking variety
Pepin,WI - same as above
Bayfield, WI - above, but is in the area of some hiking (road trip)
Madison, SD - seems pretty middle of nowhere

All the above hit the price range, but not really the hiking/outdoors aspect, which I think is pretty important for us. Ideally nestled into a state park or with some national forest nearby. Not sure if that exists with an under $1700 housing+transportation budget in the US/CA?

my list so far
- Canada ($$, PR process, know nothing about where to live there besides BC)
- Vietnam (abroad)
- Malaysia (abroad)
- Durango, CO ($$)
- Some part of Utah (canyonlands not fav)
- Raleigh-Durham NC (maybe)
- Athens, OH (maybe)
- Columbia, MO (looking into more)

Probably not going to go abroad in next move, unless it truly seems there's nowhere in US. Seems like a few good bets on the list right now though. Appreciate insights, discussions, and throwing locations at me. Even if some suggestions and/or viewpoints aren't right for me, doesn't mean they're not right for others that might stumble upon this.

[chenda]

Southern Europe might fit the bill. Iberia has lots of mountains, low population density inland, but close enough to major cities, healthcare, relatively low COL, not as hot as SE Asia...

[Viktor K]

Yes, @chenda sorry, Spain has been on our list as well for some time. I would be surprised if we go our lives never living there. Abroad is hard for me to consider right now, but I'm still open to it.

my list so far
- Canada ($$, PR process, know nothing about where to live there besides BC)
- Vietnam (abroad)
- Malaysia (abroad)
- Durango, CO ($$)
- Some part of Utah (canyonlands not fav)
- Raleigh-Durham NC (maybe)
- Athens, OH (maybe)
- Columbia, MO (looking into more)
- Spain / Iberian peninsula area (abroad)

I cannot keep up with whole thread

[Alphaville]

I hear the concerns with being remote early on in career. I think they're a little out of touch with current COVID conditions but more importantly, for someone like me who doesn't have and never has had or utilized a personal professional network to get ahead. Seems like a game I'd have to fake to play... I think I'll be fine networking online and cold-applying? Seems to have worked so far and doesn't feel gamey.

re: covid: it’s not out of touch, but i think you might be eternalizing the present—covid will not last forever, and while it will leave its mark, life will be returning to “normal” eventually due to hardwired human condition.

re: work, maybe you can work that way forever, but you’ve been in an expanding economy not a shrinking one. in a shrinking economy resumes go to the shredder and personal connection matters more.

and what about your girlfriend? does she have the same work & life conditions? not to stereotype genders, but women tend to be more social/socially minded on average than men, generally speaking, not to say this in any sort of normative way either. but it may be something to consider as she’s studying right now. will it work out the same way for her? or will social network play more of a role? you don’t know that yet, and denying a social option might be confining or career limiting.

since you like football, and that requires a certain population with a love of the sport, here’s a different kind of proposition/methodology, just for fun:

look at cities that have an MLS franchise, and see which one has low cost of living and access to nature. access to good internet and potential professional networks would be inherent on city size.

i’m not a fan of utah, but... real salt lake?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer

[unemployable]

What exactly are you hoping to pay in rent? And what's your transportation situation -- do you have a car (or 2) now, do you plan on buying one in your new city, will you try to go without one? What sort of features of higher-rent places are you willing to give up, for example not needing to live near a ski resort?

I'll throw out a few more areas for you to reject: Northern Arizona (Flagstaff, Show Low, Pinetop-Lakeside). Southern New Mexico (Las Cruces, Silver City). The Tri-Cities of Tennessee. Northern Idaho, like the I-90 corridor north.

I'll say it again, there's only so much you can learn about a place by researching it on the internet. You have to go there and wander around and see what it's like. Preferably not in high tourist season.

[Alphaville]

Southern New Mexico (Las Cruces, Silver City).

YIKES

albuquerque has walkable/bicycle areas and a large state university and you can live without a car btw.

the new express buses (ART) can take you and your bicycle from shopping to entertainment. reaching nature will require a car though, but airport is near and you can rent as needed. plenty uber/lyft too, and enough young people that he doesn’t have to get old before his time.

[unemployable]

YIKES

They're not my first choices, I'll take Cortez over either, but I could make do. At my point in life I realize nothing is permanent; you can always move. Plenty of stuff to hike in either place. As I've said, cheap places are cheap for a reason and you have to decide what you're willing to give up.