The cultural shift from sustainability to resilience

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Ego
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Re: The cultural shift from sustainability to resilience

Post by Ego »

7Wannabe5 wrote: Anyways, I can't connect the dots very well but my point here being that it seems to me that the world of the future will be different in some not totally predictable way but this sort of mosaic model of succession will still hold true so if you are able to pick up your own little backpack of resources, skills etc. and just walk a few blocks over then you will have different opportunities and different results from the same behavior because you will be in a different phase of succession in a different environment.
South Africa has an interesting problem where illegal immigrants from Zimbabwe move there and immediately get jobs and start illegal small businesses that flourish while many locals seem to be utter failures in comparison. The Zimbabwean immigrants are the definition of resilient. While we were there the country was in a period of national soul-searching after a series of violent attacks and evictions took place when the jealousy and resentment of the locals boiled over.

Many of the staff at the places we stayed were from Zim. A few had been promoted to managers. Whenever I had an opportunity I would ask them about the conflicts and why they got ahead when the locals did not. They would usually mention that they were willing to do whatever needed to be done while the locals were too proud. One campsite owner, a Swiss guy who was equally perplexed and fascinated by the cultures told me they had tried to promote a few of the locals but they would decline the promotion. He explained that it was a common problem in South Africa where village life is very communal. If someone tries to get too far ahead others will bring him or her back down.

Jacob often mentions how it is interesting that the ER bloggers and writers are immigrants. I wonder how much of their success is due to the fact that they, like the Zimbabwean immigrants, are not fully bound by the stifling elements of their home culture nor their adopted culture. As you said, they packed their backpacks of skills and resources, and were not forced by the culture to remain in their homegrown phase of success.

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Re: The cultural shift from sustainability to resilience

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I absolutely think this is true. Immigrants are obviously one of the primary species of people who quickly inhabit a burn zone. The other species evident are those who were lacking the resources to leave while the fire was raging, chronic vagrants, the insane/addicted, artists, entrepreneurs, do-"good" rescue worker types and civil servants who work there but do not live there and well-off kids from the suburbs who party there but do not live there. A recent immigrant from Yemen might rationally form the opinion that it is not safe to ride a bike through certain neighborhoods in Detroit but will not have been informed from early childhood that this is the case. Therefore, the recent immigrant from Yemen is better able to take advantage of the opportunity of purchasing a vacant lot for $500. Even the earthworms in America are immigrants and I plan on taking advantage of the catastrophe of global climate change by attempting to grow a Russian variety of tea in Michigan (my only possible hope for self-sufficient maintenance of my caffeine addiction.)

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Re: The cultural shift from sustainability to resilience

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GandK
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Re: The cultural shift from sustainability to resilience

Post by GandK »

I liked the term "elasticity" as he used it in this context. Less an image of being stalwart and accepting, and more of changing shape as needed but still being oneself.

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Re: The cultural shift from sustainability to resilience

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cmonkey
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Re: The cultural shift from sustainability to resilience

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http://www.resilience.org/

Great site on resilience.

The past few weeks/month or so I have come to believe that resilience of mind/emotions rather than physical resilience (in food/watter/safety/etc...) is the most important thing to develop. Physical things are important but you can only do so much. Being able to mentally/emotionally accept that you might go hungry sometime down the road is even more important and its something I have been churning in my mind for the past few years and am finally accepting.

Also, lately I have come to realize that I've set some pretty unrealistic expectations for myself in terms of physical resilience....namely that I can't do everything to be 100% buffered from the felling of the oak tree, so to speak. This is where emotional resilience comes in. As we discussed in another thread, learning to accept a state of "I don't know" and being comfortable with it is a great asset to have.

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Re: The cultural shift from sustainability to resilience

Post by mooretrees »

Bumping this thread as it seems very relevant. Not sure of the 'bumping' etiquette.

https://education.resilience.org/produc ... ed-course/ This course looks pretty interesting and is temporarily free because of the corona pandemic.

I've started thinking of how to create a more resilient life and I haven't come up with too much yet. Thinking that living in a small agricultural town is likely a good start. A place where a lot of people routinely grow some food and/or livestock, and are used to helping each other out and tolerating each other-mostly. I've been quite surprised at the level of tolerance in my area for obvious cross-dressing men. People notice it and marvel at it, but seem to leave it at that. I guess it's something to do with "to each their own" and "he might be weird, but he's our weirdo."

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Re: The cultural shift from sustainability to resilience

Post by horsewoman »

I agree, this topic is very relevant. @cmonkeys last post about the resilience of mind struck a nerve. It reminded me of an interesting book I've read a few years ago, "The luck factor" by Prof. Richard Wiseman.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/100 ... uck_Factor

He researched why some people are "lucky" while others are "unlucky" and found out that most of it has to do with mindset. One example in his questionnaire was something like "you fell down a stair and broke your arm. What are you telling yourself about this event?" A lucky person would have been thinking something like "wow I'm so lucky, I could have broken my neck!" While a typically unlucky person would think something like "Go figure, it is always me that these things happen to" or something similar.
I consider myself an extremely lucky person and could relate to his findings. Of course, there are other factors he talked about in his book but this is one of the examples that stuck with me.
I think it is the same with mental resilience. A lot of people adopt a "woe is me" attitude in demanding situations or a crisis, which is kind of paralyzing. I'm always automatically looking for someone who is worse off to compare myself or consider how the situation could have easily turned out a lot worse. That makes my problems seem less dire - and ultimately not unsolvable. It turns the mind towards solutions instead of wallowing in self-pity.
After reading the book I paid better attention to how people talk about good or bad events in their lives and it is actually true, there are two camps - either you compare yourself with people who have it better, which breeds helplessness and envy - or with someone who has it worse, which reinforces agency and compassion, to others and towards oneself.
After typing this I feel that "luck" and "resilience" are indeed very closely related because there is, of course, no "luck" as it is commonly understood. Lucky and resilient people have a default setting and systems in place that enables them to frame events accordingly, and turning them more or less into self-fulfilling prophecy. It is the same with unlucky or not very resilient people, only in the other direction.

This is all grossly oversimplified by me of course. In any event, if your library has this book I'd recommend to get it. It is very informative and entertaining!

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Re: The cultural shift from sustainability to resilience

Post by jacob »

mooretrees wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:49 pm
Bumping this thread as it seems very relevant. Not sure of the 'bumping' etiquette.
Reviving old threads is highly encouraged. Bumping threads by just writing "bump" is discouraged.

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Re: The cultural shift from sustainability to resilience

Post by jacob »

@horsewoman - https://www.amazon.com/Deep-Survival-Wh ... 393353710/ more along the same lines.

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Re: The cultural shift from sustainability to resilience

Post by Seppia »

mooretrees wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:49 pm
https://education.resilience.org/produc ... ed-course/ This course looks pretty interesting and is temporarily free because of the corona pandemic.
Did you like it?
I don't feel like taking stuff for free these days (I've actually been spending more to support struggling businesses), so I'd at least be looking to make a donation, but wouldn't want to do it if not a quality product.

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Ego
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Re: The cultural shift from sustainability to resilience

Post by Ego »

jacob wrote:
Tue May 12, 2015 7:39 pm
Einstein said something to the effect of that education is what you remember after you forgot everything you learned in school. This means that the education of [most] successful college graduates is that
1) There's always an answer to every problem.
2) If you can't figure it out "they" will know.
3) All problems have a solution that will appear by following a plan or some progressive method of discovery.

Such an education only allows one to deal with a very limited set of problems inside a well-defined framework under the guidance of an expert or some other responsible authority.
I'd add that when faced with problems that have no good solution our culture encourages proposals that cause the most harm for most people because we've been indoctrinated with the belief that self-harm for the sake of others is the highest good. Even higher than doing good for others without harming oneself. Self-destruction is seen as virtuous. Those suggesting a rational strategy of harm-minimization are tarred and feathered as selfish or uncharitable.

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Re: The cultural shift from sustainability to resilience

Post by Alphaville »

cmonkey wrote:
Wed May 27, 2015 8:17 am
http://www.resilience.org/

Great site on resilience.

The past few weeks/month or so I have come to believe that resilience of mind/emotions rather than physical resilience (in food/watter/safety/etc...) is the most important thing to develop. Physical things are important but you can only do so much. Being able to mentally/emotionally accept that you might go hungry sometime down the road is even more important and its something I have been churning in my mind for the past few years and am finally accepting.

Also, lately I have come to realize that I've set some pretty unrealistic expectations for myself in terms of physical resilience....namely that I can't do everything to be 100% buffered from the felling of the oak tree, so to speak. This is where emotional resilience comes in. As we discussed in another thread, learning to accept a state of "I don't know" and being comfortable with it is a great asset to have.
i know this forum doesnt have a thumbs up/down but this is a great post, highly relevant today, when everyone wants impossible answers to the wrong questions.

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Re: The cultural shift from sustainability to resilience

Post by jacob »

I hate to admit it, but I've come to agree that resilience of mind/emotions is more important. I'll blame a certain INTJness for just taking emotional resilience for granted to the point of not appreciating why it's a crucial foundation. However, having spent some amount of time in a spin-off group of Jem Bendell's climate paper, it has become clear. While I think there's a certain self-selection(*)/eternal September effect going on, many [newcomers/recently aware] are redlining their anxiety-meters to the point of paralyzing inaction. Instead of working on the problem, energy is instead spent on mutual grief-counseling, writing woe-is-me poems, and trying to form therapeutic communities more so than practical ones.

(*) A lot of INF* going on.

The few who volunteer any practical solutions are mostly drowned out by all the emotion. Worse, once people start getting their shit together, the focus is mostly on changing the world, e.g. making corporations and presidents do this or that "because individual efforts don't make a difference".

This is a terrible foundation for dealing any kind of adversity, really. First freaking out about the situation and then proceeding to blame the world while expecting it to change back to make it all good again. Yet I'm convinced this is the default human response. This means that giving people simple steps to improve their situation doesn't actually work if they're too busy freaking out or demanding that "they" fix the problem.

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Lemur
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Re: The cultural shift from sustainability to resilience

Post by Lemur »

@ mooretrees

Thanks for the bump. This thread was a good read. I signed up for the resilience.org course as well.

7Wannabe5
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Re: The cultural shift from sustainability to resilience

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I don’t know. I think it is possible that resilient is just sustainable but with more poorly defined boundaries over space/time.

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Re: The cultural shift from sustainability to resilience

Post by Alphaville »

jacob wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:39 am
Instead of working on the problem, energy is instead spent on mutual grief-counseling, writing woe-is-me poems, and trying to form therapeutic communities more so than practical ones.

(*) A lot of INF* going on.
lololololololol

yeah, i suppose that’s what some people need to cope. it’s still funny though. but let’s not mock them. everyone has needs.

i’m an f/t hybrid, and my fee-fees in adversity are all about punching the enemy in the throat ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

by which i mean, overall: emotion does not need to be a drag in a fight. but i do understand the efficiency of absolute coolness. which i am constitutionally incapable of achieving.

anyway, by emotional resilience i did not understand a lack of emotion: i understood aligning one’s emotions correctly to the requirements of the situation.

i’d argue that courage is an emotion, patience is an emotion, determination is an emotion, and so forth.

emotion for me is motivating. lacking emotion, i just stare at the ceiling like an eloy.

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Re: The cultural shift from sustainability to resilience

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7Wannabe5 wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:26 pm
I don’t know. I think it is possible that resilient is just sustainable but with more poorly defined boundaries over space/time.
i agree with this in that “unsustainable resilience” is the opposite of resilient.

sustainability is a prerequisite.

maybe someone misunderstood sustainability and tainted the common notion of it. semantic drift.
Last edited by Alphaville on Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

7Wannabe5
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Re: The cultural shift from sustainability to resilience

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

It makes sense to say “I am resilient!”, but it doesn’t make sense to say “ I am sustainable.”

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Alphaville
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Re: The cultural shift from sustainability to resilience

Post by Alphaville »

Oops wrong edit and i cant delete

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