I want to buy too much house. Talk me into it/out of it?

How to avoid signing your life over to a mortgage
Alphaville
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Re: I want to buy too much house. Talk me into it/out of it?

Post by Alphaville »

oh hell dude. you don't want anybody there? and you want the perfect excuse?? you need a studio apartment! bide your time and find it.

having a studio apartment is the perfect excuse to not have visitors come over, much less stay. it's the one i use!

Peanut
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Re: I want to buy too much house. Talk me into it/out of it?

Post by Peanut »

ertyu wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:18 pm
The city is large-ish but not a major one, most jobs are elsewhere. Population has been decreasing
This means prices are only going one way--down. Wait for another dream home. Trust me, there's always something better. It just may take a while.

Either that or make an insultingly lowball offer and be ready to walk away.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: I want to buy too much house. Talk me into it/out of it?

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

Looks like a dump.


ertyu
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Re: I want to buy too much house. Talk me into it/out of it?

Post by ertyu »

Peanut wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:06 pm
This means prices are only going one way--down.
They are in the city as a whole, but not in this particular neighborhood. The city seems to be hollowing out outside-in, shrinking into downtown and the areas around the city square and the park.

@2B1S: yep, it will need complete repairs. Walls, floors, complete gut-out of kitchen and bathroom/wc. Some people even rip out the old cabling and pipes, as these buildings date from the 70s and 80s, and replace. Some replace radiators and all doors/windows.

@Alphaville: good point. Very good point. I was leaning to trying to get a studio for starters, but have not been able to find one where I don't have at least -some- reservations.

@wolf: thanks for the link!

2Birds1Stone
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Re: I want to buy too much house. Talk me into it/out of it?

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

That makes sense! Sounds like a lot of work/money on top of the 75k euro price.

I looked at that old thread on housing costs, and see my old comment regarding 10% of income/NW. Still holds true IMHO. Right now I would consider a small rural house or flat in the $60-65k range and it would meet that criteria. Being house poor is no fun, it's such an illiquid asset with high transaction and ownership costs. Jacob goes as far as saying it's actually a liability due to the opportunity cost of having that money invested.

I curiously looked at flats in my family home town in Poland, lot of inventory in my price range, but would also need a full gut and renovation. The flat my parents keep still has all appliances and furniture from the late 70's and early 80's but in decent shape because they haven't lived their full time since the mid 80's.

flying_pan
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Re: I want to buy too much house. Talk me into it/out of it?

Post by flying_pan »

@ertyu, there will be other apartments for sale, don't worry. I understand it looks good, but the thing is that judging rationally, there is a really high chance of tremendous recession. I am not sure how it will work out in your country, but it will probably be a global one, and this will give you cheaper options (and there won't be a lot people with cash around).

You are in a very good position right now, don't forget about it, and you can afford to weather these times. Many people can't and they will sell their assets, including property.

bostonimproper
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Re: I want to buy too much house. Talk me into it/out of it?

Post by bostonimproper »

I would not buy in a depopulating city (caveat: assuming it is depopulating due to lack of demand). Also, if you're a first time owner, don't assume you'll enjoy fixing a place up.

Alphaville
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Re: I want to buy too much house. Talk me into it/out of it?

Post by Alphaville »

if you have money for a remodel, why not then look also for things that could be a studio but aren’t quite there yet? different kinds of spaces, or buildings you could partition (and rent or resell), etc?

meanwhile if you just want your own space a short term rental is the way to start while you shop around for a place to purchase (if you must purchase).




and i forgot to ask: why must you live there? in that city i mean.

Frita
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Re: I want to buy too much house. Talk me into it/out of it?

Post by Frita »

These questions are in response to your concerns about not wanting your family in your potential home. How would you manage your family if you purchased this condo? Do they accept your boundaries or keep pushing? Would living in the same city as your family be a good fit for you long-term? Do you have other alternatives?

Alphaville
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Re: I want to buy too much house. Talk me into it/out of it?

Post by Alphaville »

Bankai wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:07 pm
Do you have a system for making important life decisions?
I just wanted to highlight this one because it’s crucial.

WRAP has been good to me for the last half decade or so.

I wholeheartedly recommend that book.

It is also very relevant to Frita’s assessments.

ertyu
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Re: I want to buy too much house. Talk me into it/out of it?

Post by ertyu »

Frita nailed it, her approach was the most effective. I was fixating on this apartment, and then struggling with juxtaposting the fixation with how I couldn't afford it, when that wasn't the real issue anyway, the real issue is that I have stuff that needs to be sorted about my life and needs I can't meet - or at least it feels like I can't meet them - until "life restarts" and this is over, and I was somehow dealing with my unmet needs by fixating on this property.

I need space to myself. I need to somehow square the fact that I will be responsible for my ageing parents and would have to be around, but at the same time, and I'm sorry to say this, if they were to pass away in the pandemic I would probably feel only tranquility and relief, and joy in being able to finally start my life (and guilt for not having done enough and for feeling relief, I suppose). I think it's safe to say that, given I'm now 40 and my parents are in their 60s, and I've tried and tried to talk to them without anything changing, that things will not get better. I feel a responsibility and an obligation towards my parents, but I am not really bonded or connected to them or, I don't even know. I've trained myself out of loving them a long time ago. Being stuck in quarantine with them, in a very small apartment, is bringing all of this to the fore. The apartment is full of junk, and there's nothing I can do because it's not my house. My mother keeps a forest of pot plants which she waters with stinky pot plant food, and the room i'm staying in smells, and there's nothing I can do because it's not my house. On top of this, I also quit my job. So I feel like I must do *something* to *somehow* fix my life but no planning or action is actually feasible until borders reopen and economies start up, and I can move out. I thought about renting right now, but I don't know how long I would need to rent for either, so can't really do that. Also, I don't want to have to spend on necessities and household supplies to furnish a rental which I may not need for longer than a couple of months. I am, very simply, going spare, and one of the ways I seem to be dealing is to go look at property listings. But I can't afford a property. My juvenile drama doesn't change the fact that I don't have enough money to buy an apartment of my own now.

Something I realized was that I really do want a home of my own - a permanent base I can design and inhabit. I am sick of dumping all my posessions every year or two as I change jobs or move countries. I want a space of my own I can design, not a space designed by someone else that I fit myself in and "make do." All you efficiency people, don't mind me -- must be the infp lol.

As for "must you live there" and "would living in the same city as family long-term be a good idea" - I feel like it's my lot in life and I have no choice. I can be FI only in local terms, but more importantly, my parents are old and the 20 years where they need someone to wipe their ass are only starting. I don't love them, so I don't think I could physically take care of them. i could probably take care of a stranger easier, because at least when it comes to a stranger I can have a general compassion for them as a human being. There won't be all these other feelings to poison everything. Also, I feel like "I can't" spend on live-in elderly care for them just like "I can't" spend on a rental + furnishing said rental when I don't know if I will be in the country at all.

@flying_pan, and everyone else who suggested waiting - you are probably right, the city is unlikely to run out of apartments for sale, and the more likely trajectory of prices is downward.

@Alphavile: was looking at alternative living arrangements that I can afford, e.g. converted underground or attic storage rooms, but the pandemic has shown the weakness of having your home base be a dark, confined space + of having to rely on local businesses for many services. One can make do for oneself much more easily with a full apartment.

@Frita: no idea how I would manage my family. Honestly, if I had an idea, a lot of this bs wouldn't be an issue in the first place. I don't know how people cry for their dead parents. The only thing I feel with them around is suffocated.

Anyway, thank you everyone. You have pointed me to important issues to consider, and successfully talked me out of obsessing with that apartment! Goal achieved :D

Alphaville
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Re: I want to buy too much house. Talk me into it/out of it?

Post by Alphaville »

@ertyu

nice to hear you achieved some clarity.

still looks like you have a lot on your plate though, and many things to be decided under numerous constraints, so check out the book i pointed to. i just linked to the pdf summary, but the book really goes into all the relevant details and stories without which most of the summary is lost in translation.

as far as i know this is the most accessible and comprehensive guide to decision theory out there, and it's filled with real-life case studies, so i think it could be tremendously useful to you in years to come, as you juggle all of the variables you pointed out, plus the many others life will continue to throw at you.

then there's also the issue that a bit of therapy might prove super-useful in achieving everyday clarity (i've done it, i'm proud of it, i swear by it), but maybe that's a conversation for another day.

all the best!

ertyu
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Re: I want to buy too much house. Talk me into it/out of it?

Post by ertyu »

@Alphaville: access to quality therapy in a second-tier, depopulating town of a developing country is really not a thing. Ideally, I would like to speak with a western therapist - so we're talking long-distance, and therefore, we're talking paying "western" fees without insurance. I am well aware of the therapy issue and am not just being stubborn about it. The part that annoys me is that people assume I'm too stupid to have pursued the option and wouldn't have pursued quality therapy if it were at all accessible to me. I have read manuals for therapists, and have done my best with therapy-on-myself for whatever that is worth.

Found the book, too. The Russians have pirated it. Thank you, Russians. Edit: if anyone else is interested in the book and can't access it due to being in a developing country or any other place with suboptimally stocked libraries, PM me for dl link.

Alphaville
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Re: I want to buy too much house. Talk me into it/out of it?

Post by Alphaville »

@ertyu

Eh, I made no assumptions about you— I just thought I’d mention something helpful, since therapy was the best education I ever got. Since you’re into books, I’d recommend Bradshaw, which was recommended to me by my therapist.

His books may be old and imperfectly written and a bit corny, but the info they carry about family systems is priceless. He also had a tv show on public tv which I’ve never seen but someone has posted on youtube. “Bradshaw on the family” is the name of the show and the book.

My shrink used to work with the guy back in the day. Apparently when the guy spoke some people in the audience would have a breakdown and his job was to catch and calm them down.

Anyway, it’s great stuff in that the systems approach lifts the burden away from individuals and shows how the stuff replicates itself through them. Basically, an inability to cope with trauma or some dysfunction gets transmitted through the system, and self-perpetuates in the system, which is the family. The systems angle should be appealing to ERE folk.

Frita
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Re: I want to buy too much house. Talk me into it/out of it?

Post by Frita »

@Alphaville
Interesting book recommendation, I will check it out.

@ertyu
I hadn’t made these assumptions about you and therapy either. We were going to visit my mom for a few days. It was early on in the shutdown. Because she can drive us crazy and treats me like a child (Yes, she has not changed how she relates to me. I suspect it would feel familiar to you.) and the worse case scenario was getting stuck there long-term, we canceled our trip. I am sorry your visit morphed into quitting your job abroad and a visit without an end date.

David Burns’ CBT and TEAM methods are appealing to me. I appreciate how he differentiates between irrational thoughts and realistic appraisals of less than ideal situations, has a measurement and evaluation component that may appeal to ERE folks, stresses that we all have things to learn, and is brief focused. His book and podcast are called “Feeling Good.” I read the book years ago in uni but really enjoy listening to the podcast.

JCD
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Re: I want to buy too much house. Talk me into it/out of it?

Post by JCD »

So I feel like I must do *something* to *somehow* fix my life but no planning or action is actually feasible until borders reopen and economies start up, and I can move out. I thought about renting right now, but I don't know how long I would need to rent for either, so can't really do that. Also, I don't want to have to spend on necessities and household supplies to furnish a rental which I may not need for longer than a couple of months.
@ertyu

Have you considered AirBnb? This could work either way, either as a "roommate" solution or as a way of moving out. For example in Oradea, Romania, a relatively small town with 200k people, there were AirBnbs available as of a few months ago. Split, Croatia, another small European town, also had many AirBnbs. You might look around to see if there are any where you live or in near by towns. There is a premium to be paid for month long stays, but it might be the right option for the flexibility/optionality you are looking for. Just to give you an idea, in the off season, in Split I spent ~800 USD a month for a one bedroom apartment about 700 meters from the sea and 100 meters from a nice grocery store and bus stop and included all utilities. In Oradea it was a studio apartment I stayed in for a week and was 165 USD, again all utilities, near a mall and fairly nice overall.

If you really like the 3 bedroom place and want to run a business, renting a room in AirBnb might also be an option to justify that large an investment. It depends on how excited you are to run a business like that for years on end. You get new people all the time, some you'd like, some you wouldn't. I don't know if such an arrangement would be something you'd enjoy or hate, but it is worth considering if your local economy has enough AirBnbs to make it clear it's a viable business. Obviously current conditions might limit the number of visitors, but these conditions aren't likely to be going on forever.

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